I have always played WYSIWYG, but I've always managed to pull it off without too much extra expense. All it really cost me was time digging through bitz boxes and figuring out how to convert what I need. But I have a concern and need an outside opinion. I enjoy...combining weapons. ie: mounting ballistic style weapons on a powerfist or pair of lightning claws so that the model can count as having any of the options, then a simple check of an army list can resolve it. Is this cheating the WYSIWYG rules or not?

 

true WYSIWYG? i dont think i have, or will, ever see it.

for ease of gaming ya i do expect it, if you have 2 plasma guns in your plague marine squad they better be represented with plasma guns, not meltas. now am i a stickler on this? not at all, outside of tournaments.

on combi-weapons:

i dont really care personally not when GW makes 1-3 bits of combi-weapons of which 2 look terrible or suck and are not in any box for my army, in this regard i would like more special weapons on sprues. particularly the more common units like tact squads (seriously GW, no PF/PW/LCs? and a shitty ML mold at that!) and personally some other boxes should have more than what comes in them (im looking @ you dev box!)

but generally if you take a unit with 1 PF 1-2 special/heavy weapons & 1 unique (icon, etc) i expect to see that.

and if you just buy the box sets you should have almost no problems with getting the bits and at worst you buy from places like Bits&Kits because you like THIS bit.


Edit:

But I have a concern and need an outside opinion. I enjoy...combining weapons. ie: mounting ballistic style weapons on a powerfist or pair of lightning claws so that the model can count as having any of the options, then a simple check of an army list can resolve it. Is this cheating the WYSIWYG rules or not?

for instance have a stormbolter on a PF for a mini pedro sargent? ya you can do that, but you have to pay the points for a stormbolter & a PF. and as long as the rules allow the load out its fine.

however if you take a PF & add a stormbolter (same scenario) but dont buy the stormbolter you are using that model as a boltgun/pistol. army list print outs are also semi important.

 

I have always played WYSIWYG, but I've always managed to pull it off without too much extra expense. All it really cost me was time digging through bitz boxes and figuring out how to convert what I need. But I have a concern and need an outside opinion. I enjoy...combining weapons. ie: mounting ballistic style weapons on a powerfist or pair of lightning claws so that the model can count as having any of the options, then a simple check of an army list can resolve it. Is this cheating the WYSIWYG rules or not?

Interesting question really. One of the things I understand the rule is that any-additional equipment needs to be modelled upon the miniature, ie you could have a guy with two chainswords and a power-sword glued to his back pack: as long as he pays the points, he can use that power sword and is WYSIWYG. Interestingly I refuse to allow things stuck on bases to count as being on the model - eg: Scenic bases with meltabombs on them don't count because they aren't on the miniature.

With regards to your powerfist "built in stuff" I think it's actually legal to do this because it's modelled on a miniature as long as it is clearly on the model and Accurately Resembles what you want it to be. For example you can't just stick a melta-gun nozzle on as a Cod-Piece and claim the guy has a melta-gun but you could technically have a guy with plasma pistols sticking out of his chest-piece like nipples and that would be legal WYSIWYG - because the pistols are on the model.

 

with plasma pistols sticking out of his chest-piece like nipples and that would be legal WYSIWYG

I think lady gaga did that already.

Honestly the only big things that I believe are required to be WYSIWYG are special/heavy weapon options, and sergeant weapons. Things like grenades...and those little toxin biomorphs......not a big deal. Of course in a casual game WYSIWYG is null, as long as its completely clear which squad has what.

As far as price goes, it can be frustrating to drop a chunk of cash on just meltaguns, and thats even if you find a bit store that has meltaguns in stock.....because everyone else wants meltaguns....

 

So if the miniature is PACKING the equipment that you claim he can use... so a power sword glued to his back, a bolter glued to his side and Power Fists on his hands.. you could say he is using any one of those, provided you pay the points. Am I understanding this correctly? Can you back and forth? Like start with a bolter and then say, now he's using the power sword?

 

I noticed the same thing with my CSM. Put me off so much with all the planning that I still haven't built half my army!

 

I play wysiwyg but i only do up lists for what i have. So i have less than optimal weapon loadouts on my terminators. Some of my russes have sponsons or odd combinations of weapons within squadrons. I have only 3 meltaguns out of over 130 csm's. Lots of plasmaguns though.

 

So if the miniature is PACKING the equipment that you claim he can use... so a power sword glued to his back, a bolter glued to his side and Power Fists on his hands.. you could say he is using any one of those, provided you pay the points. Am I understanding this correctly? Can you back and forth? Like start with a bolter and then say, now he's using the power sword?

As far as I understand that's the rule. You only need to model the equipment onto the miniature - nothing about having it "drawn" or being wielded - it just needs to be on the miniature. You could technically Pack-mule the guy with EVERYTHING you could physically stick onto him that you had to pay for; and if you paid the points you can claim WYSIWYG because the item in question is modelled upon the miniature.

I could be wrong, but I'd find it hard to argue that a guy with a melta-gun glued onto his leg, who paid the points, doesn't have a melta-gun. No matter how retarded he looked :biggrin:

As far as using it, as I understand you declare what they are using for that turn. Eg: In combat a model armed with a Powerfist and a Power-weapon can either choose one or the other but not both. Also, typically you "exchange" one weapon (like a Bolter) for the other (eg: A plasma gun) so rules wise he can't have both, but if you modelled a guy with a Plasma gun and a bolter, but didn't pay the points for the plasma gun you can't use that model to suddenly "have" the plasma because he didn't buy it.

As you can see, much like i've just noticed, WYSIWYG is actually more than meets the eye ! (bad pun intended)

 

i try to play wysiwyg. obviously its difficult to get 100%(smoke launchers on tanks and grenades are hit and miss )

if im struggling for a bit, i'll normaly ask around my local club, as alot of similar requests are made and everyone is willing.

i dont mind people using a meltagun as a plasmagun or whatever, aslong as its somehow shown that 'this model has a unique weapon'

 

nope. fuck wysiwyg. i tried and was doing good. then they change my codex and suddenly, i had two illegal fexs and almost a hundred guants with fleshborers. won't even get into the warriors, genestealers and adreanal/toxin glands.

most people aren't dicks about it. luckily.

 

You sound like someone I know whose dakkafex army was fucked over by the new dex. I lolled so hard at him, having powerbuilt to the max only to have his army and expensively commissioned models rendered moot.

So, what made your list illegal specifically? :biggrin:


Personally, i refuse to play with an army that isn`t wysiwyg. I make sure everything I field is modelled as it is listed. If I can`t model it, I make do without. As a result I have become fluent at converting.

I do give some leniency to my opponents however.

 

I've always played wysiwyg and i've never had a problem doing it. Perhaps it's because of my huge bits box or the units i use. Probably also helps that i primarily play various marine and guard armies so there will be no major changes between editions like say tyranids would suffer from.

If i can't find any bits then i convert them, Combi weapons for chaos terminators for example.

Some things you don't actually have to represent- grenades for example. If i recall correctly from the rulebook things in the units basic profile are always assumed to be equipped even if you can't see them. (so things like grenades, bolters, close combat weapons etc)

 

The most I ever do to cheat wsywig is model my squads with say, voxcasters, so that I have to option to pay the points if I want to use them and to not pay the points and claim its scenic or some shit if I don't want them. I don't bother with grenades either, because they're so tiny, but everything else I will at least make an attempt to do. Holstered pistols are a personal favorite, as they can be whatever.

 

I always play true WYSIWYG with all of my armies. I don't demand or even ask for the same from my opponents though.

Usually it's not too bad. Adding maybe $50-100 to an army cost for me.

My new project (TH/SS Deathwing using Chaos Terminators) it's going to actually cost me just about as much to buy the weapons as the models itself - which is kind of sickening.

 

Umm, I kind of play WYSIWYG its just models don't have to have that exact object like:
Krak grenades as, Frag grenades
Meltaguns as, plasma guns
chainsword as power weapon
you get the idea, the model just has to have a unique or obvious thing to be or represent another... :so_happy:

 

I see no problem with krak grenades as frag grenades, and even chainswords as power weapons (seems to me they should be more than just ccws anyway) but I do take issue with the meltaguns as plasmaguns. You should just take the time to make a spare guy to swap out when needed.

 

It seems like it's definitely harder for some armies than for others. For instance, DE having all those units with Blasters. That's a lot of Blaster demand verses how many Blasters are actually out there and available for purchase.

I know some people mold and cast the extra blasters they need, but then you're crossing one line (legally) just to adhere to another (wysiwyg).

 

I try to model all of my BA space marines as WYSIWYG, with the exception of grenades. Frag and krak grenades can be used up during the course of a battle, so I don't feel the need to cram them on some models that don't have the room. Melta bombs are another issue altogether. There's no good spot to put a huge melta bomb, other than either being carried by the handle, or set down on the ground. If I have a marine who is modeled as firing a two handed weapon, I'll set the bomb on the ground. I wish there was an easy way to model "slung" weapons, but there just isn't. I can imagine how awkward it would be try to get a sling on and off, going around those huge shoulder pauldrons. I'd love to model some marines with their main weapon slung, holstered, or sheathed, allowing their arms and hands to be doing other things. However, GW didn't see fit to model the SM's very realistic or to scale.

Oh, and there's good reason for GW to not sell every possible option that a squad could have, or even the most popular ones.
1. Not everything will fit on the spru. Look at the space wolf pack, jammed with bits, and still no meltaguns.
2. If people want to min-max their squads with the best options, they have to buy multiple boxes.

 

When it comes to meltabombs I tend to stick one on the side of the odd model that has its arm(s) raised or if it has a spare hand. This just represents that at least one model could act as a bomb planter or something y'know just use your imagination! :santa:

Also Cadian81st there isn't a gaming club where I live and my friends don't have imperial forces so there I'm afraid, I'm stuck!

 

Lokis222.
I don't understand your complaint although it may be something very simple that I'm not seeing.
In what way has Codex Tyranids made your army non-WYSIWYG?
You've got a hundred Gaunts with Fleshborers. I take it that's Termagants not Hormagaunts.
Games Workshop haven't changed the look of Fleshborers from Fourth to Fifth Edition. Isn't the humble Fleshborer the default weapon for Termagants in the current Tyranid Codex? So presumably you had a hundred Fourth EditionTermagants with Fleshborers and now you've got exactly the same number with Fleshborers in Fifth Edition. How is that non-WYSIWYG?
What had you equipped your Carnifexes with that makes them unplayable now? Is it not the same kit?

 

From another tyranid player (me).

Carnifexes and Hive Tyrants used to have the option of taking two sets of twinlinked devourers.

On fexes, this would be eight shots at S6 with rerolls to hit and rerolls to wound.

On Hive Tyrants, this would be twelve shots instead. The new codex made these weapon loadouts illegal. Dunno about his tyrants if any but I`m guessing that`s what the problem with his fexes was.

With warriors and gaunts and such, toxin sacs used to give a +1 strength bonus. Now it confers poison instead. Adrenal glands used to be +1 Initiative or WS, and now confer furious charge.


The problem many tyranid players had is that the upgrades many had modelled now did something completely different, or in the case of those fexes, were illegal. This as well as the relatively soft rules has made the current edition of tyranids very unpopular except among few devoted fans (me again).

 

WYSIWYG is the way to go. I love it. My Grey Knights are fully WYSIWYG, and I have no plans to change that fact as I progress.

 

My CSM and BA armies are completely WYSIWYG. For the most part, it hasn't cost me too much. For the most part, I've worked out crack deals with local players to trade them bits that I have and don't need for the crap that I do need.

Combi-meltas for termies were cobbled together from their TL bolters and hacked up meltaguns, most other special weapons I've gotten through trades as well.

The only things that could be a pain in the arse are if you go for double CCW defilers, since the box only comes with the 1 set, you'd have to either cast mold or buy them from stores, but everything else, if you live in an active area, you should be able to work out deals for that wouldn't cost you too much (unless you run noise marines and don't like scratchbuilding sonic blasters... costly blisters to you!)

 

It sorta reminds me of collectible card games. You can buy an entire box of cards and not get a complete set. So, you have to trade with other people to get what you want. The problem is that EVERYONE wants tons of melta weapons these days.

I broke down and ordered a ton of meltaguns from the online GW site. It was the cheapest deal around.

 

Yup it's the best deal for melts and plasma I found. Got mine this morning so happy as a chipper

 

i always use WYSIWYG doesnt cost me shit on extras i usualy trade bits with people. and the kits that contain the extra bits i might need eventualy always end up as full squads or vehicles that see a lot of use.

 

I use complete wysiwyg, as it makes things easier on my opponents.

 

So, let me see if I've got this right...

It would appear that Lokis222 spammed the most competetive builds for his Tyranids units as opposed to collecting a balanced, take on all-comers army. Gotten used to stomping all over his opponents and probably thought that was a right laugh. Then along comes nasty Games Workshop, who make him have to firstly, rethink his tactics and secondly, replace a pair of arms that his Carnifexes didn't come with for a pair that they did come with.
Ain't life a bitch?
Ha ha ha ha ha...

 

Nope. Good try though.

I used only things my models came with or upgrades they could take, and spent a lot of money ordering bits because the boxes didn't come with all the pieces I needed to outfit my army. For example, genestealers had an upgrade called feeder tendrils. I wanted a unit of eight with them. My box of eight genestealers came with 2 feeder tendrils biomorphes. To get the upgrade, I needed eight as every model had to have the same biomorphes. Bitz order later, I had my unit. For any of the genestealer head biomorphes, you had to make a bitz order because you only got 2 of every head.

The 4th edition competitive list were Nidzilla, Psychic Choir, and something else.

I played a horde army and these days I use a tactic that I call suicidal distraction. My win ratio is higher these days in fact. Out of about 30 games this year, I have lost one.

But hey, good job on being a complete dick. k:

 

Yeah, I can't wait for the Grey Knights nerfing. And, just wait till 6th edition comes out. No telling what they'll do, but I would bet they nerf cover saves for vehicles.

 

One word: magnets.

I just started using magnets maybe six months ago and now I magnetize everything. Both my orks and SM are WISIWYG because of magnets. I want my special weapons guy to use melta instead of a flamer click, click done! On the cost side magnets are damn near free, you can get 100 for like $20 from amazing magnets. And I really think it has saved me cash and time because my special weapons guy can swap out to any one of three weapons instead of having to model three individual models each with their own weapon. But of course WISIWYG can get expensive some time, just a couple of weeks ago I paid $15 apiece to get TL-Assault cannons for my razorbacks(ouch!)

As for playing against others: If I’ve never played you before you army had better be WYSIWYG or you bring a printed list for me to have during the game. I don’t know you, I don’t trust you, and I am so jaded that I completely expect you to cheat. This goes double for anyone under 20(damn kids ruin the hobby…) But seriously we’ve all had that time where a devastator squad had all lascannons one turn but then plasma the next, or an Assault Terminator squad has lightning claws but somehow still got their 3++ from storm shields.

 

As for playing against others: If I’ve never played you before you army had better be WYSIWYG or you bring a printed list for me to have during the game. I don’t know you, I don’t trust you, and I am so jaded that I completely expect you to cheat. This goes double for anyone under 20(damn kids ruin the hobby…) But seriously we’ve all had that time where a devastator squad had all lascannons one turn but then plasma the next, or an Assault Terminator squad has lightning claws but somehow still got their 3++ from storm shields.

Oddly, what has been a bigger issue for me has been people who have learned rules word of mouth and don't actually have a rulebook. The games where I have seen sketchy shit has in all but one case turned out to be an honest mistake. Could be that in both cities where I play, the community is small enough to keep people honest.

Tried the magnet route. For my larger models.... warriors, it has worked. Destroyed a number of guant limbs. Tried that on the carnifexs and larger models and had a lot of trouble. The weight of the limbs caused slipping. Which ended up with giant scything talons dragging on the ground. Could be a big lack of skill on my part though. I prefer the game to the hobby.