Ooooooooo thanks! Been looking for an excuse to stop reading the drivel that is Ahriman Exile.

 

FYI, the eBook and MP3 versions are available now.

 

The smilie says you'll be getting the ebook version, so I look forward to hearing what your thoughts are on it.


LotN

 

Are the apocalypse novels actual novels? or are they like the codex's with bunches of pages of lore but also pages of rules. At first glance I thought this book was a setup for a table top game.

 

The video on the Pandorax page explains it. There are three products. The first is what you just described, the Apocalypse Warzone book based on Pandorax for the game. The second is what I posted here and is a novelization based around that battle by Christian Dunn, similar to the SMB books. And the third is an audio containing a side story to the main one, about Azrael fighting Kharn.


LotN

 

I blame having just woken up for my failure to do the basic research lol. Thanks for the clarification, $30 seems a bit more reasonable now, especially if it means watching the entire Dark Angels chapter going to war.

 

Huh, interesting. Did not realize it was 'available' now. Despite the advert on the page saying that you could preorder it. Just DLed my copy.

 

2/3rds through Pandorax. A pretty interesting read so far.
A few teasing bits.

Kaldor Draigo is a prominent person in the book, the story is tangentially related to Dark Vengeance through the Hellfire Stone. An ancient athame cutting holes in reality plays a big role. And finally more hints about the origin of the Grey Knights from an eye-witness.

Edit:
Finished it, a very good read with some terrific lore suprises and a very grimdark true conclusion.

 

Spoilers please?

 

im looking forward to
Trials of Azrael

like the sound of the audio as im a big fan of the DA and kharn the betrayer, when that out?

 

Like the sound of the audio, as I am a big fan of the DA and Kharn the Betrayer, when is that out?

Copies of these two will start shipping out Nov 2nd.


LotN

 

Anyone have a link to the original artwork (sans the red circle) for Trials of Azrael? Or willing to do some photoshop trickery to get rid of it?

 

My attempt:

 

Things I dislike so far

1) Plague Marines die from regular humans. Some Catachans, who have never seen a Space Marine before but know where the weak spots of Astartes armor is thanks to the Infantry's Uplifting Primer, stab one in the neck and kill him. How regular humans can sneak up on a Space Marine is something I just can't comprehend. They have their augmented senses amplified 100 fold by their helms and regular humans somehow manage to sneak up on one, even using fucking bird calls to alert one another to the Marine's presence and the Marine could not determine that a human made the sounds. It shouldn't matter if the humans were jungle warfare experts.

2) Three more Plague Marines die when they stumble upon the first one's corpse which was stuffed with explosions and they comically find themselves launched through the air, past the trees and into an open field, knocking down some Plague Marines just standing guard. How the Catachans managed to not get infected by the Plague Marine's blood/corpse/being next to it is something else entirely.

3) Stasis fields apparently are not immune to the ravages of the outside world. One of the traitor Inquisitors recieves a vial from the lead Plague Marine that is filled with the Life-Eater virus (why a Plague Marine of all the traitor legions would resort to using human-made viruses as opposed to ones made by Nurgle is just....no comment) which shatters and bypasses a stasis field housing a bunch of psykers, contaminating them. So basically, Guilliman could theoretically be healing since stasis field technology apparently is not that effective. The traitor Inquisitor says gases (and liquids IIRC) can bypass stasis fields in general, not just in the book. El o El

4) There is a Grey Knight who just chills in an alcove for approximately 10,000 years and when he wakes up and realizes this, what he says is the equivalent of a 'oh ok' shrug.

5) Droplets of the Life Eater viruses apparently takes a while before completely killing its victims as opposed to previous lore.

 

Things I dislike so far

1) Plague Marines die from regular humans. Some Catachans, who have never seen a Space Marine before but know where the weak spots of Astartes armor is thanks to the Infantry's Uplifting Primer, stab one in the neck and kill him. How regular humans can sneak up on a Space Marine is something I just can't comprehend. They have their augmented senses amplified 100 fold by their helms and regular humans somehow manage to sneak up on one, even using fucking bird calls to alert one another to the Marine's presence and the Marine could not determine that a human made the sounds. It shouldn't matter if the humans were jungle warfare experts.

2) Three more Plague Marines die when they stumble upon the first one's corpse which was stuffed with explosions and they comically find themselves launched through the air, past the trees and into an open field, knocking down some Plague Marines just standing guard. How the Catachans managed to not get infected by the Plague Marine's blood/corpse/being next to it is something else entirely.

3) Stasis fields apparently are not immune to the ravages of the outside world. One of the traitor Inquisitors recieves a vial from the lead Plague Marine that is filled with the Life-Eater virus (why a Plague Marine of all the traitor legions would resort to using human-made viruses as opposed to ones made by Nurgle is just....no comment) which shatters and bypasses a stasis field housing a bunch of psykers, contaminating them. So basically, Guilliman could theoretically be healing since stasis field technology apparently is not that effective. The traitor Inquisitor says gases (and liquids IIRC) can bypass stasis fields in general, not just in the book. El o El

4) There is a Grey Knight who just chills in an alcove for approximately 10,000 years and when he wakes up and realizes this, what he says is the equivalent of a 'oh ok' shrug.

5) Droplets of the Life Eater viruses apparently takes a while before completely killing its victims as opposed to previous lore.

Ok my rebuttal,

1.) Because they've been told where the weak spots are, and Plague Marines are notoriously slow so they wouldn't be able to react as well to a shock-sneak attack like a regular Astartes would. And the Catachans focused on one, an entire squad bringing down one Astartes with lightning fast attacks leaving him no time to respond. Space Marines are powerful but even they can be brought down, just about technique. And how do you know he didn't realise the humans were there, he may just not have been able to react in time. And yes the Catachan Jungle Fighters are great at fighting in jungles, I can see how that might be strange but that is how it is.

2. No one Plague marine died from that trap. The other two were killed in a cross-fire of heavy bolters and Jokaero enhanced lasguns. And again it was a surprise attack that they did repel and would have won had the Catachans stuck around, but they wisely did not.

3. Who says Nurgle didn't invent the Life-Eater and then whisper how to make it to some Imperial in his dreams?? Chaos is more than happy to use the Imperials stuff, they steal their tanks, men, souls and guns constantly. If you have a good idea, Chaos is more than happy to corrupt it. And as to the stasis field that sounds right, a stasis field keeps thing from aging and decaying but it wouldn't be able to protect them from outside trauma. If someone walked up to Guilliman and cut off his head, he's a dead man stasis field or no stasis field. And a virus is an outside source, a stasis field wouldn't be able to stop a virus, let alone the freaking Life-Eater.

4. No comment yet, I need to read the whole book.

5. So the hell what?? Maybe the virus decayed a little in storage, maybe it was a watered down version, or maybe it was just made on a second rate Forge World and wasn't as powerful to begin with.

LotN

 

that indeed does not sound great,
for point (2), if a squad of BA can get killed standing together because the tesla coil of their plasma gun get hit by a cunning NL, I do not see the problem,
especially (4) seems strange, could you elaborate on this ?
(3) indeed seems very very strange, I know finally understand why the Navier stokes equations are invariant for time transformations

 

if a squad of BA can get killed standing together because the tesla coil of their plasma gun get hit by a cunning NL, I do not see the problem

Indeed...that was a humiliating moment for the BA...but y'know, Night Lords are just kewl like that

 

I'll still be getting it, because it's entirely new, sounds epic in its scale. So I'll be reading it, just wait until I pick it up.

 

There was a short story where a tech priest was visitted by visions that led him to create a new version of the life eater virus, which a space marine team used to perform exterminatus with. It turned out to work all too well, turning the errant planet in question to a world filled with plague zombies.

 

That wasn't really a rebuttal LoTn more like an acceptance of new lore.

Plague Marines are slower than other Astartes but not humans.

In Asaheim, a Plague Marine keeps up easily with an enraged Space Wolf, arguably one of the fastest of the legions.

Stasis fields are immune to external trauma. The text we're talking about even mentions it:

The cultist pulled the trigger and the bullet sped inexorably towards the dome of blue energy. It hit the stasis field and bounced off, ricocheting crazily off the walls of the cavern, given new impetus by its deflection.
‘The field doesn’t just keep them alive, you fool. It protects them too. Killing them is going to take–

What the traitor Inquisitor says regarding stasis fields

It’s an airborne pathogen which makes it excellent at breaching stasis fields. Unfortunately, those psyker slaves in there don’t have their own air supply which means the protective dome, while sufficient to prevent solid objects from passing in and out, is porous enough to allow gas and liquids through.’ She emphasised this point by spitting through the field, a wad of phlegm landing on the hem of an oblivious psyker’s robes. She shook her pistol at the Space Marine. ‘Even he can’t save you now'

lewl

 

That wasn't really a rebuttal LoTn more like an acceptance of new lore.

Plague Marines are slower than other Astartes but not humans.

In Asaheim, a Plague Marine keeps up easily with an enraged Space Wolf, arguably one of the fastest of the legions.

Fine whatever it is. I can understand not liking the Plague marine scenes but I don't see why you dislike the stasis field parts. They make sense, the book even gives an explanation.

Interpretation, it's all down to interpretation. I like what Dunn has chosen to do here, the Astartes are dangerous but can be brought down with tactics, skill and luck. Others prefer it when no mortal can kill an Astartes but that is their choice, I like it when a skilled mortal brings down an Astartes because it makes for awesome scenes and because the authors usually put a lot of thought into it and make the fights more elaborate than simply two guys hacking at each other.

What the traitor Inquisitor says regarding stasis fields

It’s an airborne pathogen which makes it excellent at breaching stasis fields. Unfortunately, those psyker slaves in there don’t have their own air supply which means the protective dome, while sufficient to prevent solid objects from passing in and out, is porous enough to allow gas and liquids through.’ She emphasised this point by spitting through the field, a wad of phlegm landing on the hem of an oblivious psyker’s robes. She shook her pistol at the Space Marine. ‘Even he can’t save you now'

lewl

I don't get your problem with this. It makes sense considering the standard of Imperial technology and the likely degrading of the field over 10k years.


LotN

 

Please see my edits regarding the stasis field bit

 

I have. I do not understand your issue with it.


LotN

 

It feels like for me that these novels are all over the place!

 

http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/11/black-library-review-apocalypse.html

http://www.talkwargaming.com/2013/11/black-library-review-apocalypse-trials.html

I review both Pandorax and Trials of Azrael. In short both were great fun and I look forward to not only more of CZ Dunn's work but more of the Apocalypse series in general.


LotN

 

I'm not surprised at the ability of the Imperial Guard to do what they did. How they did it is kind of sketchy, however the availability of anti-armor weapons in the Imperial Guard arsenal along with their vast numbers I'm surprised novels haven't focussed on that. I've read too many events where Imperial Guard are trying to bring down Traitor Astartes with lasguns. There comes a point where you wonder if the commanders don't understand its not working. Of course one can always claim they use their heavy weaponry against the mass amounts of cultists. But even thats kind of sketchy.

 

I hope Abaddon his prisoner gets freed and put in a GK librarian dreadnought deployed in the 13th crusade and take on Abaddon himself,

 

Thanks, saw that in the MP3 download package. That's the image I used to make the one I uploaded.

Just wanted something for my MP3 library that didn't stick out with the red badge.

 

It was a somewhat OK read, but nothing spectacular. There were plenty of big lore revelations that somewhat make it worth reading, but the writing is rather meh and the book is so inconsistent with both itself and established lore that it detracts from the enjoyment.

 

I agree, the stasis field had likely degraded to become a zone of slowed time, than outright frozen. Hence the old and decrepit psykers inside it.

 

A stasis field either works, trapping its contents within an unchanging moment in time or it doesn't. An energy field that's a permeable barrier and allows entry of molecules, radiation and energy isn't a stasis field. It might be a form of sus-an, but it's not a stasis field.

If GW want to redefine what a stasis field is they can, but its like saying gravity in the 40k world is actually water pressure, not an attracting force. None of the other authors seem to want to redefine basic terms.

 

So machines don't degrade over time?? A machine that is in constant operation over 10,000 years would not degrade and would require no maintenance to continue working at full function?? Likely it stopped ceasing the flow of time entirely and instead slowed it to a crawl, seconds passing every century and the like.

That argument is facaetious. 40k is a universe where ancient gods born of our emotions scheme to destroy us all, as do green skinned fungus people and space elves, oh and robots that have souls. I'm not going to debate it's sense of physics with you.


LotN

 

Yeah but the cultist doesn't hold up the vial of life-eater virus and say I've noticed this is an old defective machine and as a result it has a permeable field and doesn't actually stop time but slows it down, Dunn implies all stasis fields are permeable, which is completely at odds with all other descriptions of stasis fields in other 40k fluff.

Bad editing that's all.

The rest of the novel is excellent.

 

Yeah but the cultist doesn't hold up the vial of life-eater virus and say I've noticed this is an old defective machine and as a result it has a permeable field and doesn't actually stop time but slows it down, Dunn implies all stasis fields are permeable, which is completely at odds with all other descriptions of stasis fields in other 40k fluff.

I can only think of one other description and that's the machine Guilliman is in. And exactly how that works and functions, in full detail, has never been described to the best of my knowledge. As far as I see, what Dunn has written syncs up fine, and even if it is at odds with that one other description, who cares. Just because one writer says a piece of esoteric 40k technology works that way doesn't mean it's true universally, other Forge Worlds may build it a different way or not have access to as good schematics.


LotN

 

"Just because one writer says a piece of esoteric 40k technology works that way doesn't mean it's true universally, other Forge Worlds may build it a different way or not have access to as good schematics."

So basically all established lore is subject to change based on the whims of future authors.

LoTn. There are certain writers whose contributions they've made to WH40k's lore is just garbage. You need to accept that fact of life rather than agree every single time established lore gets massacred. The bigger question is why GW/BL/editors let them get away with it.

 

LoTn. There are certain writers whose contributions they've made to WH40k's lore is just garbage.

True. However...

You need to accept that fact of life rather than agree every single time established lore gets massacred. The bigger question is why GW/BL/editors let them get away with it.

...in reality, there is no such thing as established lore in 40k. The entire setting, absolutely everything, gets interpreted differently. Compound that with the fact that dozens of authors, writers and games developers contribute to the setting in various ways (codices, novels, articles, magazines, games, comics, forums etc) and (quite often due to a lack of organisation) inevitably are not on the same page as each other. That is the nature of 40k: inconsistency. That's why Jim Swallow thinks the Sons of Horus armour is metallic coloured and everyone else thinks its pale green. That's why Mcneill fucked up the timeline of the Isstvan expedition. That's why the 28th Expeditionary Fleet was commanded by both Fulgrim and Magnus. It's why Qurze was simultaneously both Terran and Cthothian. It's why stasis fields appear differently across publications. It's why no one knew just how big the Legions were. You get my point.

The quicker one accepts the inconsistency the better it will be, it has certainly helped me recently. If you simply ignore what lore you don't like (such as Dunn's take on stasis fields) - problem solved.

What bugs me is that every time a book, codex or novel is released people whine and moan about a certain aspect of the plot not fitting in with either their own interpretations or that of another author or contributor. Yes I get it, this inconsistency can be annoying at times, especially when you think the latest way item X is portrayed is stupid or when you know such issues could have been avoided with better organisation. But you have to accept it as inevitable given how the setting is.

I haven't read the books that this thread are talking about, but spitting into a stasis field and a virus spreading throughout one seems a bit daft to me. Oh well, it doesn't bother me. :laugh:

 

Reading the book now. It's decent but it does raises question about traditional lore. Who knows why they did it?