I would like to think that they are still somewhat loyal and only assisting chaos to benefit the Imperium.

 

Well this may not be on the mark but the soul drinkers were muations but still tried to serve the emperor (first book) and his people. So I think both of your thoughts could happen.

 

My preference is they have maintained what they set out to do when they turned against the Emperor for the survival of mankind.

 

There are several threads on this already which may prove insightful to you, for some reason I havn't put them in the FAQ so i'll put them here for now:
Alpha Legion: Your Thoughts.
Alpha Legion...am I the only one who can't stand their fluff.
Legion of disappointment
The Twins and the Alpha Legion *Spoilers*.

to use chaos to defeat itself and save mankind.

This never happened, don't know where that has come from. If (and thats a very big "if") the Alpha Legion capitulated to the Cabal's demands then it wasn't with the intention of saving mankind, it was with the intention of destroying mankind in order to save the galaxy from Chaos.

Moreover as its in the novel Legion, it's pretty much canon now that's why they turned.

Legion doesn't explicitly reveal to us why they joined Horus. I've always said that taking what happened at the end of Legion (Alpharius seemingly doing as the Cabal asked) at facevalue would be rash, given the nature of the Legion. Alpharius views the Acuity, hears the demands of the Cabal, then turns on Lord Commander Namatjira and his fleet before joining Horus on the sands of Isstvan V two years later. That are generally the only facts we have.

What I'm interested in is other people's views on the current state of the Legion. I'm really not sure what to believe, if they've fully gone over to Chaos or if their loyalties still lie with the Emperor.

Large contingents of the Legion have certainly embraced Chaos. I'd be suprised if any elements of the Legion that remain are loyal to anything but Chaos to be honest. They have nothing left to be loyal to (in terms of the Imperium). Any chance of achieving the Cabal's prophecy died with Horus, therefore it wouldn't make sense for them to continue fighting the Imperium for any other reason than a desire for it's destruction.

People have to remember that if the Alpha Legion did as the Cabal instructed and joined Horus to destroy humanity, from that moment they renounced all loyalty to the Imperium and Emperor. They gave their allegience to the Emperor's dream (of the destruction of Chaos) not to the Emperor himself (or his Empire).

Also, as a lot of the Alpha Legion exist outside the Eye of Terror, its been literally ten thousand years for them. Thats presuming they don't visit and stay there at all.

Which likely means that the elements of the Legion that remained out of the Eye are now primarily made up of post-Heresy renegades rather than original heretics. Codex: Imperialis also suggests that the Primarchs were not immortal, perhaps meaning there is little chance that either Alpharius or Omegon have survived (if they remained out of the Eye).

What they did at Istavaan was clear.

But their overall intentions wasn't.

:goodpost:

They saved Corax. Why would they if they were not pretending to support Horus's cause? Their deception is what their legion excels at.

Deliverence Lost will expand on this.

 

Yeah, I'm thinking they are still loyal to mankind and not to chaos. Maybe some fell, after all they work in small cells spread thinly across the galaxy and you can't maintain 100% loyalty to the cause if you don't see your brothers from time to time to keep a check on the methods you're using to fight the war.
Maybe some turned and become full on chaos marines, but I believe even if they have then they believe they are doing it for the right reasons, to use chaos to defeat itself and save mankind.

 

We still don't know if they decided to turn against the Emperor after their meeting with the Cabal or if they did, whether or not they planned on asking for his forgiveness if the Emperor survived.

 

Alpharius said "The Alpha Legion has always been for The Emperor" and then, at Istvaan, they turned. The reasons for their treachery are one of two: First that they turned due to Horus being the only Primarch Alpharius felt close to while being shunned by others. Second that the Cabal convinced them it was the only way to defeat Chaos, and Alpharius believed that is what the Emperor would have done.

Bear in mind they met the Cabal only two years before the Drop Site Massacre, it highly unlikely that Alpharius, after telling the Cabal his loyalty was always to the Emperor, would just two years later suddenly renounce that. Moreover as its in the novel Legion, it's pretty much canon now that's why they turned. What I'm interested in is other people's views on the current state of the Legion. I'm really not sure what to believe, if they've fully gone over to Chaos or if their loyalties still lie with the Emperor.

Also, as a lot of the Alpha Legion exist outside the Eye of Terror, its been literally ten thousand years for them. Thats presuming they don't visit and stay there at all.

 

What they did at Istavaan was clear.

But their overall intentions wasn't.

They saved Corax. Why would they if they were not pretending to support Horus's cause? Their deception is what their legion excels at.

Alpharius would not abandon the Emperor simply because he did not spend time with him.

All the Primarchs were programmed to be loyal to him, it would have taken something collosal to overturn their support for him which is exactly what happened to all the traitor Primarchs. As far as we know, nothing of the sort happened to Alpharius or his other self.

For the remnants of the legion, some have become corrupted, this is clear as the AL are not immune to the touch of chaos.

But have the entirety of them become corrupted?

No one knows. Perhaps it's reached a point where some of them have splintered off into their own cells/factions and are warring against one another, one side secretly aiding the Imperium from the shadows.

 

What they did at Istavaan was clear.

But their overall intentions wasn't.

They saved Corax. Why would they if they were not pretending to support Horus's cause? Their deception is what their legion excels at.

There actions at Istvaan V are by no means clear. We know they were there, that's it. We have no accounts of any thing they did other then help Corax and 3k Raven Guard escape. I am not sure what part they played in the Drop site massacre if any. Maybe they planned it. Maybe they faked participation to help the loyalists survive. Maybe they led the traitors on wild goose chases to give the loyalists time to escape. Maybe they helped Vulcan like they did Corax. The Primarch book by A D-B has a part with Alpharius that makes me think they remained loyal.

As a Raven Guard fan boy and Alpha Legion hater, my world was rocked by Faces of treachery. I hope Deliverance Lost will be as interesting.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with Child of the Emperor's post. The majority, if not the entirety of the Alpha legion would have fallen to Chaos by now. They are certainly anti Imperium, that being the whole point of their turning after all. Not to mention even if they where still loyal the Imperium has changed so much from the one they knew they would likely oppose it out of principle.

To be honest i always thought Legion rather weak. I mean a primarch really taking the word of some mysterious alien group at face value and with no reservations or second thought is ludicrous. He betrayed his whole heritage, his whole species just because some aliens asked him too and said that these mysterious powers- who he has been told empirically do not exist, will consume the galaxy.

The cabal's reasoning wasn't even sound. Mankind not being around while probably weakening the Chaos gods, would not kill them off. As long as there are sentient species with emotions there will be the Chaos gods, the Eldar after all where the ones who created Slaanesh, you don't see the Cabal trying to remove the Eldar. I personally believe it was a trick. Whether Chaos' eventual victory would be a result of mankind's continued existence or not they were all Xenos and as such did not want a dominant, xenophobic human empire free to wage war against them. The Imperium in its current state is far easier to deal with.

 

As soon as i read Faces of Treachery i was convinced that they saved the Raven Guard to insert a spy into the legion, well whats left of it. The closing words of the Alpha Legionairres and the Human commander with the Raven Guard seem(to me) to indicate this.

 

Just checked BL, and a new synopsis for Deliverance Lost has been posted up:

"As the Horus Heresy divides the Imperium, Corax and his few remaining Raven Guard escape the massacre at Isstvan V. Tending to their wounds, the bloodied Space Marines endeavour to replenish their numbers and return to the fray, taking the fight to the traitor Warmaster. Distraught at the crippling blow dealt to his Legion, Corax returns to Terra to seek the aid of his father – the Emperor of Mankind. Granted access to ancient secrets, Corax begins to rebuild the Raven Guard, planning his revenge against his treacherous brother primarchs. But not all his remaining warriors are who they appear to be… the mysterious Alpha Legion have infiltrated the survivors and plan to destroy the Raven Guard before they can rebuild and threaten Horus’s plans."

This seems strange. Why would the Alpha Legion allow the Raven Guard to escape Isstvan V only to then attempt to destroy them afterwards? There is no doubt reasoning behind this, but it is by no means clear.

 

Wahey, i called that ages ago! Think i even made a thread on it

 

Honestly for me this idea that they joined Horus just because they had a vision was always retarded. And what happend when Horus actually lost? I mean they sacrificed everything what they belived, just to see that they actually lost everything! Chaos Gods were not outright victorius (chence no way they would be destroyed by Horus - dumb idea anyway!), Emperor incapacitated, Horus dead...
Honestly this might be a good time to say something like "Sorry guys, take us back"
"Evil aliens showed us some power point presentation about the bad future and we belived"
Seriously: Emp should brodcast some propaganda to traitor primarchs, it seems that they all had muscles instead of a brain.

 

I think that idea is retarded as well. I don't believe Alpharius and Omegon are so acceptable as some would suggest. I believe Alpharius and Omegon got off in the fact they could play both sides. They have come to the points where their actions have become unnecessary. Their actions don't make any sense, and the readers are trying to make up something.

But perhaps their actions are not suppose to make sense. It seems that Alpharius lives for trickery, spying, and living up to his reputation. They no longer belong to the will of the Cabal. Deliverance Lost showed me a weakness in their legion. The agents blindly follow Alpharius believing whatever he does to be for the better good. Sooner or later this must hit home. In 10,000 years the Alpha Legion has accomplished nothing. And they are all over the place. We have some that are under chaos influence enough that some are Daemon Princes, and some that aren't.

The Outcast Dead makes a rather cryptic message at one point that may or may not refer to the Alpha Legion primarchs.

"Twins conjoined by a single soul, tugging in different directions."

Could point out they were lost to begin with. Not knowing which direction to go, it would explain why their goals seem obscured. In the end, they just don't know what goal to strive for, instead just living by what they do best.

Considering the Emperor had the genetic technology available, I wonder why he didn't permit his trusted praetorian Dorn to utilise it to super-size the Imperial Fists - thus solving the issue of not enough loyalist Legions being available to garrison Terra...

Although I suppose he trusted Corax with it considering the lord of the XIX intended to swell his Legion back up to (and beyond normal) strength in order to harrass the Warmaster's advance. But surely he could have allowed both the IV and XIX to utilise the technology, thus giving the Imperium a significant advantage.

I think Deliverance Lost wasn't planned out very well and with enough time. I agree, there really isn't a reason why Dorn wouldn't be able to use this power. Corax never had the strength to protect the secret from being destroyed as well. Forget the fact that the secret was stolen, Corax had bits and pieces of his legion to defend it with. It makes no sense, especially if the enemy knows where they are. An accident waiting to happen if you ask me.

 

I always believed that the AL did do what the Cabal wanted. No it dosent say it, but the Cabal insisted that they help Horus and so they did. But since Horus is dead, that leaves the question of "now what?"

I believe that the AL is split up, that there isn't one single purpose of them. It is clear though that they renounced their oaths to the Emperor so this is the way I see it:
-That some of them have fallen to Chaos and now just wish to serve it for their own selfish purposes
-They still believe that if they aid Chaos, it would be for the betterment of the universe
-There are those within the Legion who try and destroy Chaos, perhaps by pretending to be aiding the traitor legions, but then betray them

So either way I think they serve Chaos, but for different reasons.
For the third proposition I'm not sure because they have always been depicted as siding with Chaos, so perhaps they use Chaos to fight Chaos (fight fire with fire, evil with evil)

 

Well then. I'm seriously wondering myself. In truth, this organization operates like the best intelligence agency you've ever seen. Their motives are secret and the plans are shwdow. Have some of them fallen? Ovcourse. Operating on the edge for that long will lead some to fall. As a whole? No idea. I think that is the overall point of the Alpha legion is you have absolutely no idea who's running it,what they're doing, and if they still are allies or enemies. No real stories have been written that take you inside.

 

I am inclined to agree with deadeye. They are masters of misdirection so confusion like this is to be expected. As for the saving of the remainder of the raven guard, the value of a well placed agent is worth thousands of men in the field.

 

The Outcast Dead makes a rather cryptic message at one point that may or may not refer to the Alpha Legion primarchs.

"Twins conjoined by a single soul, tugging in different directions."

 

They are either the most patient legion ever or kings of procrastination.

Either way, they're doing a bang tidy job. They also get sundays off.

 

I have no problem buying into the idea that - at the end of "Legion" - Alpharius (and possibly/probably Omegon) had sincerely accepted the Cabal's proposal.

A lot of folks seem to question this on account of the Primarch in question being of the Alpha Legion, which in their eyes indicates things should never be as they seem. Others question the idea of Alpharius turning purely on the grounds of it being non-sensical: a Primarch being turned by "mere talk" (someone called it a PowerPoint Presentation), as it were.

But it wasn't mere talk, that's the thing. Issues of the Cabal's integrity aside, Alpharius and Omegon were exposed to a very powerful psychic effect in order to "show them the future". If they did turn because of that, it's hardly a case without precedent: Horus himself was turned using similar means (though obviously for different ends).

I agree with Angel of Blood, though: that's a potent statement left in "The Outcast Dead". I honestly think it ties in directly with why the Alpha Legionnaires eventually go Chaos-y, mutate, etc.

 

^Good point

I agree with this but I also believe that the Alpha legion has split apart and that they don't opperate as a whole Legion. Think about how man different cults they have. I look at it like this. Take 10 people who share a similar belief and put them in a room. Tell them all an idea, concept, or controversal topic regarding to their belief. They all might stand for the same thing, but the way they deal with the idea or concept will be different for all them in some degree. People automatically assume that since you are part of a larger entity, you stand 110% for it, no thats not true. There are many, many, many hydra cults out there and who knows when the last time they were in contact with another AL faction? So I find it hard to believe that all of their motives are for the same outcome.

 

Well whose to say they would join Chaos if that was the only way for humans to prosper? Its kinda like "Hmm what would be better, dead and free or some gains powers and a shit load of slaves?" Its not impossible for Alpharius at the end of the heresy think "Shit alternative 1 went down the drain, lets try the other thing."

 

Androxine,

I have no problem believing that the Alpha Legion split apart at some point... since that's more or less how they are described. :wink:

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be devastated if it was revealed that eeeevil Omegon killed Alpharius, pushed the Legion to Chaos, and has since been the shadowy, hidden mastermind behind all these various cabals (or something like that)... but nor would I care if they were just autonomous, compartmentalized fragments proving their dead Primarch right ten thousand years after their death.

 

Haha, that'd make me sad, if one of them was evil. I'm kind of hoping that, during the final battle against the forces of the Warp, the Alpha Legion will suddenly turn on Chaos at a pivotal moment, costing them everything and giving the Imperium the chance to land the killing blow. Kind of a "that was a sucker punch ten thousand years in the making, biiiiiiiiitch! BOO-YAH!" moment. Followed by every Legionnaire everywhere high-fiving each other and chest bumping, before disappearing into the shadows forever.

 

I know that in the anthology "Victories of the Space Marines" there is a short story that involves an Alpha Legionnaire. He was definitely not loyal.

 

Though that was that not released before Legion, which is where the loyalty thing first started.

 

i would like to throw my 2p in on this,
I love the AL they are by far the most interesting legion, I beleive they only send the weak or the old to chaos to keep up apperances, as there are not to many CSM AL's about, kinda like sacrificial lambs, more has to be done with them a decent book or triology written about them. there is no doubt in my mind that it just wasn't the Raven Guard they sent spies into but probably every other Legion to( friends close but enemies closer kinda thing)

 

Could it be that Alpharius and Omegron went against one another, both could have been for the Imperium. However one was specifically for fighting against Horus and helping the Emperor, while the other was for fighting for Horus and helping the Imperium by destroying it.

Or maybe, both disagreed at the start and as the Heresy went on the AL began to fracture, some siding with Alpharius and others with Omegron. Post war, one of them died and the legion following the ideals of the remaining twin, which obviously chose chaos.

 

Hard to imagine them fighting/disagreeing since they are essentially the same being.

 

but there is always one evil twin!

 

::Imagines a handlebar-mustached Omegon wearing a monocle, tying Alpharius' girlfriend to railroad tracks and cackling maniacally::

But seriously, that'd be about the worst direction GW could take that in, IMO. Though they've done sillier things before.

 

Well the quote from outcast dead to me at least indicates that Alpharius and Omegron both had different perceptions, and choices into regards to what they believed in.

Specifically that though they were one soul, both alpharius and omegron went in different directions with what they thought was the best method and choice of action to take, IE in opposite directions of the other. So who is to say one didn't kill the other?

 

Heres a thought. Just the fact that they pulled in different directions doesnt nessacerily mean internal conflict.

Lets look at the options open to them,...
Side with Horus... Chaos Ultimately wins
Side with Emperor... Humanity exterminated,

lets be fair... both options suck.

I believe they try to enact a 3rd result... help both, and hinder both in an effort to avoid both results. The twins pulling in different directions is just a metaphor for the nature in which the Legion conducts itself during the heresy.