[CPT Killjoy]

I don't mean to crush dreams, and I understand what your saying. The 40K universe contains ghost, zombies, magic, dragons, and a whole host of other impossible things. I really do get that. But, if I find your skeleton, or see you die, there's a much better chance that you are dead then say.... if you simply left never to return (ie Vulkan, Khan, Corax). Nothing is impossible, but the argument is probability. So probably, it's not Cruze, as he is probably dead. For all we know, the figure is a clone of the emperor who was hunted on Mars by the void dragon, who was baited into being there by the clone, then trapt by the real emperor, and right when the clone was going to be eaten, trapt next to the dragon, a scream of terror on his face, Trazyn froze him for his collection, and used the webway to escape at the last second. Possible, sure. Likely, not so much.

 

[Diatribe1974]

My favourite ideas are

Constantin Valdor
One of the first Grey Knights or Inquisitors
An original techno-barbarian

They aren't quite as powerful as a Primarch (except for Valdor who IIRC defeated Horus in a sparring match) and are people that would likely be considered worthy of Trazyn's collection.

Also because it sounds lulzy

Robute Guilleman (the one on Ultramar is just Alpharius spying on the Ultramarines)

The God Emperor of Man (the one on Terra is fake)

Horus' Original Body (The Black Legion destroyed a fake)

Sanguinius (Dorn carried the Emperor back from Horus' ship, who brought Sanguinius back?)

It's not Sanguinius as his corpse is in stasis on Baal, forever preserved in death.

 

[DeathJester921]

So you're saying that Horus, who's soul was utterly obliterated by the Emperor and his body later incinerated by Abaddon could come back to life somehow if GW willed it?

And Dorn is dead, killed during a Black Crusade (not one of Abaddon but a Black Crusade none the less) and his body was recovered. His skeleton minus the hands were encased in amber and placed on display while the bones of his hands are held else where, each and every Chapter Master of the Imperial Fists inscribing their names upon the bones.

Whether or not M'Shen killed Cruze he escaped with his head so unless you can explain that away then I'd say he's definitely dead.

Plus Ferrus Manus's head was sliced off by Fulgrim. So Ferrus is most definately dead. Then theres Sanguinius. He was killed by Horus. Also there is Guilliman who was killed by Fulgrim. So yeah, theyre not coming back either. Not unless the Emperor comes back and somehow revives them. I don't see that happening anytime soon though

 

[Jacobite]

No primarch is confirmed dead, Games workshop has left the door open for every single primarch to return.

Sorry to burst your bubble but no. Flat out no Lux. That is one of the falsest statements I have ever heard. The following Primarchs are confirmed as dead, gone, no longer alive. They cannot return.

Horus: The Emperor (or the Empress or Michael or whoever you seem to think the big Golden fellow currently sitting on the Golden Throne is this week) killed him, blasted his soul into oblivion. This is explicitly said on page 368 of The Horus Heresy, The Collected Visions. Would you like an exact quote? Also Page 243 of Realms of Chaos - Slaves to Darkness.

Sanguinius: Killed by Horus: This is stated on page 364 on The Horus Heresy, The Collected Visions. I can give you a word for word quote should you require it.

Ferrus Manus: Beheaded by Fulgrim, their duel is described in Chapter 24 of "Fulgrim", the moment of his death is described on Page 394 and confirmed on Page 395 and then again without any room for doubt on Page 406 of Fulgrim.

Those 3 are dead. Fact. You can't say that they are simply somebody's perception of being dead. If he an't got no head, he dead.... oh and if it's explicitly stated that he's dead... guess what... he's still dead.

The following you can quibble over the details as I know you will. You can try and spin it any way you want but there is more evidence of the following being dead rather than alive.

Night Haunter/Konrad Kruze
Rogal Dorn
Alpharuis/Omegeon (one of the two)

The others are either missing, in status (may or may not be dead, healing etc) or Deamon Princes.

 

[Akatsuki13]

Actually Alpharius and Omegon may both still be alive as even the Ultramarines cannot say if it was either of them slain on that day (though they would not have known of Omegon to begin with) or if it was another deception by the Alpha Legion and its Primarchs. Hell it's entirely possible that agents of the Alpha Legion created the story and subtly inserted it into the histories of the Ultramarines after Guilliman was mortally wounded. So I would put them as the only Traitor Primarchs in the 'Fate Unknown' category.

 

[Jacobite]

Actually Alpharius and Omegon may both still be alive as even the Ultramarines cannot say if it was either of them slain on that day (though they would not have known of Omegon to begin with) or if it was another deception by the Alpha Legion and its Primarchs. Hell it's entirely possible that agents of the Alpha Legion created the story and subtly inserted it into the histories of the Ultramarines after Guilliman was mortally wounded. So I would put them as the only Traitor Primarchs in the 'Fate Unknown' category.

Not meaning to be a dick... but as I said we can debate the fates of those 3/4 till the cow comes home. I have the Alpha Legion IA in front of me and it says that Alpharuis was killed by Gulliman... but the way its written can lead to debate as to weather its true or not. Unlike Horus, Sanguinuis and Ferrus Manus.

 

[Deadeye776]

I also don't mean to be a dick, but it's also sourced that the Ultramarines left that battle not knowing what the hell happened or who they killed if anyone. The retaliation was something no one expected a legion that just lost its primarch to unleash which lead to the conclusion that it was either planned or the Primarch himself or his twin (which no one knew to exist outside the xenos cabal and maybe the Emperor). You may be correct or I might be, who knows which is exactly the point. Once again, the AL left the affair so in doubt as to the truth of it that only they have all the cards. Few legions can boast this ability.

 

[Jacobite]

it's also sourced that the Ultramarines left that battle not knowing what the hell happened or who they killed if anyone.

Where does it say this? I haven't heard of this version of events, I'd be interested to it see it as it seems to clash with the IA.

 

[Deadeye776]

Index Astartes IV-" The Enemy Within - The Alpha Legion Space Marine Legion."

"Even though they had lost their Primarch, the Alpha Legion had soundly beaten the Ultramarines, who proceeded to bombard their foes' position from outer space. It should be noted, however, that Alpharius's death is still considered suspect even by the Ultramarines, and he may still be at large.2 On the other hand, it is possible that 'Alpharius' did indeed die and 'Omegon' took sole command of the Legion. It is also possible that it was 'Omegon' who was 'killed' by Guilliman after taking the place of 'Alpharius'. Whatever the truth, the Primarch of the Alpha Legion has not been seen since." Lexicanum.

I know the Lexicanum isn't the most reliable but the had it sumed up pretty much so I quoted it. But yea, back to my point, even the Ultrasmurfs had doubts as to what had happened which is the point and aim of a spymaster like Alpharius. Gulliman knew this and thought that this might have been an elaborate scheme to bring about this whole event especially given the counterattack. Maybe it was Omegon getting revenge for his brother or vice viersa. Maybe it was body double as they were known to do alongw with other traitor primarch Horus. Long story short is that nothing is confirmed, like a good spy organization would want it.