Be glad he wasn't bringing Salamanders- They love dwarves (or is it dwarfs?). Especialy ones that have deployed oathstones.

On your points vs lizards (points 4&5), I'd tend to agree. Also, skinks hate organ guns, since they autohit (unless that guy I was playing was wrong).

The thing about dwellers in Lizards vs dwarves is, if you really bring the magic protection (as one or two guys I know do) Then they're pretty much going to have to ignore the buffs and hope for IF dwellers. If anything, I'd be blocking throne of vines, purely to maintain the threat of IF- once he uses up his cupped hands, he's going to think twice about IFing. And since your going to be blocking a lot of spells, his buffs probably won't work, and then his saurus are just targets for guns (especially when only 15 strong).

Basically, solid magic defence (which dwarves can most certainly bring) can really screw up a Lizardmen army. So if you feel like tailoring...I'm not sure what the items are, but there are easy ways for dwarves to block Lizardmen- I've played against it a lot.

 

I fielded
30 LB's with GW and FC
18 Warriors with GW and FC
1 Organ Gun
1 Grudge Thrower
1 Cannon
20 Ironbreakers FC
1 Master Engineer
1 Thane BSB
1 Runelord with AOD

First thoughts on the list- Warrior unit is far, far too small, you should be looking 30 minimum in my experience. master engineer is doing nothing for the army. Ironbreakers should be Hammerers, as the stubborn USR will hold your line long after the ironbreakers have broken. Anvil has no purpose in this list

things you need- another grudge thrower, and runes on all the warmachines- penetration and accuracy on GTs and forging on cannon.

Hammerers instead of ironbreakers- and 25 minimum size

MRoGrungi on the hammerer banner- 5+ ward against all those poisoned shots, steg bow shots and magic missles pays for itself in the course of a battle

more warriors in that unit

3 lots of 12 skinks, two with blow pipes, one with Javelins

1 Stegadon with a great bow

10 Cold one Cav

15 Temple Guard with a Slann in (the Slann had a rule where he added a power dice to his casting attempt every go and something that he knew every spell in a lore, he picked lore of life)

2 lots of 15 Saurus.

His Stegadon adds nothing to his list, and the temple guard unit is much, much too small. Saurus units are much too small- 24 minimum size

Doesnt help you much i know but just though i would say :biggrin:

He marched across the field towards me and in his magic phase rolled a fairly big number. I had MRO Balance and a rune of spelleating which I thought would be enough, but in order to maximise his dice he used a few dice often which meant that I was always keeping some dice in reserve in case he decided to try and pull of dwellers. Throne of Vines is a pain in the arse and I wish I had got rid of it quicker with the spelleater as the buffs to successful spells are great.

Your dispel priority is WAY WAY off- i gave a comprehensive tactica in the army list thread you commented on about the important spells to block. saving dice for dwellers is the last thing you want to do- dwellers is the second least-threatening spell to you after Awakening. Your priority should be throne, then flesh to stone, then regenerate. You save your dice for those, nothing else

I find the rune of spelleating inferior to 2 dispel runes but that is just my personal opinion

1.The AOD is useless in a 2k game, you’re better off with a Runelord as he has better survivability, which you need if you’re going to load up on anti-magic.

I find the AoD useless anyway but it has it's place in an offensive dwarf army, which yours is not (and rightly so, i play dwarves defensively myself) and the points are much better spent elsewhere (see above for my suggestions)

2. Either I need to go on the offensive with more warriors and therefore limit my shooting or use the points saved from the anvil to get in my usual core shooters.

As above, i dont think dwarves play offensively- we blast from range, and hold a solid and near-impenetrable line that can deal out damage as well as take it

If this was an all comers list i would suggest quarrellers, but they dont really have a gd target against lizardmen- skinks are too hard to hit and saurus can shrug them off. If you are setting you list up to take on the lizzies i would avoid shooting troops

3. LB hordes with Oathstones should get into combat ASAP as otherwise they get sniped by skinks.

My big issue with the oathstone is that it holds an essential unit in place for the battle. A centre-line unit like hammerers, fine. But your LBs need to be able to plug gaps in the line or force your opponent to charge, which cant be achieved if you are stuck in place

4. Always play the refused flank so that the skinks can’t get in amongst your war machines.

Standard dwarf tactic, works well but might need a hill to deploy on

5. Take out vine of thrones early on, dwellers is a IF spell really and my opponent would rather go for buffs.

Would love your thoughts on these.

I talked about this earlier, at least you have experience now so you can make a better decision next time.

Remember, dwellers will only take out most of your models 33% of the time- your grudge throwers can do more damage than that against his models

 

First thoughts on the list- Warrior unit is far, far too small, you should be looking 30 minimum in my experience. master engineer is doing nothing for the army. Ironbreakers should be Hammerers, as the stubborn USR will hold your line long after the ironbreakers have broken. Anvil has no purpose in this list

I totally agree on the Warrior front, unfortunately I only have 48 models at the mo ;-)

things you need- another grudge thrower, and runes on all the warmachines- penetration and accuracy on GTs and forging on cannon.

The Cannon has burning and the GT has penetration, I used to run the cannon with forging but the Engineer does it for me for both WM, if I need it. Plus he can entrench my skink hunting OG and protect the other two as well as having pot shots.

I agree with another GT as they are very handy for whittling down troops, just wish they were more accurate.

Hammerers instead of ironbreakers- and 25 minimum size

MRoGrungi on the hammerer banner- 5+ ward against all those poisoned shots, steg bow shots and magic missles pays for itself in the course of a battle

I do like Hammerers but they just die far far too quickly to justify their cost, in my very limited experience the IB's hold their own and I usually run a Thane or Lord in their to do some killing. 5+ 5+ is not really worth it on skinks that are poison and basic Str 4 opponents. Just my opinion.

more warriors in that unit

His Stegadon adds nothing to his list, and the temple guard unit is much, much too small. Saurus units are much too small- 24 minimum size

I know, but I already told him about lore of life, I'm not helping him out anymore.

Doesnt help you much i know but just though i would say :biggrin:


Your dispel priority is WAY WAY off- i gave a comprehensive tactica in the army list thread you commented on about the important spells to block. saving dice for dwellers is the last thing you want to do- dwellers is the second least-threatening spell to you after Awakening. Your priority should be throne, then flesh to stone, then regenerate. You save your dice for those, nothing else

I find the rune of spelleating inferior to 2 dispel runes but that is just my personal opinion

Do you think that it's better to have two guaranteed dispels that making him loose the throne spell? Granted he might not loose it. And yes, I agree with the dispel priorities now that I've faced them. 100%

I find the AoD useless anyway but it has it's place in an offensive dwarf army, which yours is not (and rightly so, i play dwarves defensively myself) and the points are much better spent elsewhere (see above for my suggestions)

In a slightly higher point army I do like having the anvil but in a 2k list, just not worth it I found.


As above, i dont think dwarves play offensively- we blast from range, and hold a solid and near-impenetrable line that can deal out damage as well as take it

If this was an all comers list i would suggest quarrellers, but they dont really have a gd target against lizardmen- skinks are too hard to hit and saurus can shrug them off. If you are setting you list up to take on the lizzies i would avoid shooting troops

Really? I do like the thunderers, I know they have reduced range but they have a lot of kill and when compared with the warmachines which have a tendency to blow up they are a nice bet, especially if you can get them in a tower.

My big issue with the oathstone is that it holds an essential unit in place for the battle. A centre-line unit like hammerers, fine. But your LBs need to be able to plug gaps in the line or force your opponent to charge, which cant be achieved if you are stuck in place

True, but how much moving am I doing? As long as the player doesn't go for hordes he will try and flank which I think makes it worth it, especially with the Magical resitance.

Standard dwarf tactic, works well but might need a hill to deploy on


I talked about this earlier, at least you have experience now so you can make a better decision next time.

Remember, dwellers will only take out most of your models 33% of the time- your grudge throwers can do more damage than that against his models

Many thanks for your replies, given me loads to think about. It was a bit of an eye opener.

 

On the hammerers- yeh, they die, but they hit back much harder than the ironbreakers do. And the main reason for bringing them is Stubborn, they will hold the line til the last dwarf which will buy your artillery valuable time

On the spellbreaking runes- i always would take an extra guaranteed dispel over a 50% chance of removing a spell. I like to have as little opportunity for bad dice rolls affecting game play as possible

On the thunderers- im not sold on thunderes purely because of the lack of GW options, which makes them pretty poor in combat. And you need as many units holding the enemy back from your artillery as possible

On the oathstone/movement- you should be angling your units away from your artillery, so that if the worst happens and he breaks through the unit you have bought youself a turn of shooting as he reforms. I just dont like the idea of being stuck in the one spot for the rest of the battle!!

 

Multiple dispels is one of the strengths of the current dwarf list. You should have a Dwarf Combat lord, 2x rune priests, 1x thane BSB, 30 LBs, 30 Xbows w/shield, maybe 2hw, Cannon w/flaming, organ gun, 20 Ironbreakers. Small units fail in this edition.