Really? And do tell how we might be able to counter or defend against space vessels capable of orbital bombardment?

 

We can all hide in chuck norris's beard till they run out of juice then boom his extra beard fist will shoot out and blam the imperium is gone

 

There has been so so so so so many threads about this.

The greatest military power on this earth can't even put down a bunch of goat herders running around with AK's and bolt action rifles. What chance do we have against a crusade fleet with legions of genetically engineered killing machines and oh yeah... virus bombs...

What defence do we have against the weapons deployed against the loyalists on Isstvan 3? Nothing, zero, zip, nada, naught, Sweet FA.

 

The greatest military power on this earth can't even put down a bunch of goat herders running around with AK's and bolt action rifles.

Well, let's be realistic. The US isn't trying to put down those goat herders. If the objective was utter annihilation without regard to the civilian populace, the war would have been over in a couple months.

It's that whole "care about human rights" thing holding them back. Protracted counter-insurgency =/= unrestrained conventional warfare.

That said, I'm fairly sure a single battle barge cleans house on the planet with little problem. And why is everyone feeding this troll?

 

Let's not even bring Marines, or Sisters of Battle into this. Let's bring the fact that there are more Guardsman in the Imperium period than there are people on the entire planet. They'd win through attrition alone.

 

Hey its sweet you are creating so many new discussion threads but i think you need to read up on fluff a bit more.
Now to answer your question. Earth would get subdued within maybe 2 hours of Imperial deployment. Space marine armor can take shot's from largest caliber HMG like it ain't no thang. Warlord Titans with their void shields can take 30k nuclear weaponry like a sneeze on face. We are so far behind technologically that its not even funny. Imperial guard faced horrors so terrible, anything that humanity has would just pale in comparison. A single space marine chapter would be more than enough to take over Earth, I'm pretty sure our heaviest tank weaponry wouldn't be enough to pierce land raiders armor.

 

oh yeah. if thinking we are so strong is helping you at sleeping at night, go on. Otherwise, think twice. We have a pletora of governments, unable to cooperate in the most calm situation, imagine how many will turn "traitor" within the first hour of fighting. Imagine how many of the 3rd world countryes would just embrace the new masters only to get some revenge. Imagine how paranoid and schizo would the petty and unprepared governements of usa, russia and china would become, trying to save their own nation, maybe negotiating or simply going full nuclear mayhem on the invaders, pissing them off with a badly displayed contempt and silly ideas of victory against all odds... i just hope to be kidnapped by some Slaaneshi cult and enjoy my life a little before the hammer of the emperor hit our puny planet on neck and balls, without even need to disembark from orbit.

 

We would be hammered no doubt about it. But are guns seem to be just as good as an auto gun in 40k. And I would consider a heavy bolter as good as are hmg's.Also their missile launchers don't look to be better then ours. But then they have bolters and lascannons and terminator armour. So ye we're fucked

 

And I would consider a heavy bolter as good as are hmg's.

Think an RPG that fires 180 rounds per minute and you're probably a bit closer. A single bolt shell can kill *groups* of unarmoured humans.

 

how to counter orbital ships: nuke 'em, we have thousands of the damn things, might as well use 'em

 

Won't work.

Without going into breaching Void Shields, or the ship's armour, or hitting anything vital...
How would you get it up there? We don't have surface to space missiles or rockets. (For military purpose)
There is absolutely no way we could ever deliver a warhead via rocket with anything even vaguely approaching accuracy.

 

Ok.....


So, um, where so I sign to betray my planet and join the IG....?

 

You guys are thinking about this completely the wrong way. We don't need to use any military force to defeat the imperium, we'll just send GW legal at them.

As soon as they see the first sign of a thunderhawk gunship, their IP infringement addled brains will go into meltdown - they'll smash everything out of the sky with cease and desist letters.

 

Because that never backfires on GW.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/space/02/20/satellite.shootdown/

http://www.howstuffworks.com/shoot-down-satellite.htm

We can shoot shit that is in orbit, but the impression I have gotten from books is the shit that would be orbiting us makes the word Massive a understatement.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/space/02/20/satellite.shootdown/

http://www.howstuffworks.com/shoot-down-satellite.htm

We can shoot shit that is in orbit, but the impression I have gotten from books is the shit that would be orbiting us makes the word Massive a understatement.

So...

You're understanding the part that a fighter isn't going to be carrying a huge warhead right?

The way I see it is this. Sure a fighter can carry a nuke but is it going to be carrying a warhead capable of piercing a shield?

Secondly you're overestimating what a nuclear weapon does in space. Since there's no air the shock wave is non existent and without an atmosphere the fireball burns out fast.


Seriously am I the only person who reads this shit.

 

Even if they did manage to bring down the ships, they'd just send an even bigger force later on, with Space Marines. The Imperial Guard and Imperium in general works on a war of attrition...

Or they would just declare exterminatus. Probably more cost effective since there is nothing here they would actually need to make another invasion force worth it.

 

@lokyar http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons where did you get your 30k nukes from? Void shields can take a nuke hit, also nuclear weaponry is not as effective in space as they show in movies, no air so no fireball and no shockwave. And what does radiation matter to environmentally sealed and 100% resistant space marine armor.
I don't understand why are people arguing that we would be able to fight them? Do you have to feel that we are superior even to a fictional universe? What are you basing your opinions on? The game rules? Well read some fluff, if it was a full scale invasion we would loose with in maximum of a day. They can obliterate all our forces from space, destroy the capitals and government seats before we can realize that they arrived. Earth does not stand a chance of resistance, be realistic

 

I mean, we could probably take down about a hundred SMs out of a thousand, or a hundred thousand guardsmen out of untold trillions. That's if they don't just drop an OB on us and say goodnight.

 

I doubt we'd even pierce their armor.

Our main military rifle fires a soft metal round coated in copper. I've seen rounds not even dent a 1" thick steel plate. space marine power armor is made of a ceramite titanium alloy the latter is used in vests today.

The only things that probably would penetrate astartes armor are M2's and a .50 AM rifle. Even then I wouldn't want to be the guy operating them.

 

Your thinking of the first Grey Knight novel by Ben Counter, but those were overcharged las guns not auto guns.

Unless I am mistaken, stub weapons are a rather motley assortment of hard round, non caseless, guns.

Also, a large enough group of people can take down marines, it just takes a lot of them to bog said marine down enough to attack the weak points of power armour. Otherwise no marine would ever die by being swarmed by hordes of cultists/fanatics or the likes of gaunts.

 

Most of the fluff I read where space marines get swarmed it's by plague zombies, slaanesh cultists or khornate cultists.

They either don't feel the wounds or want the feelings.

 

The thing is game mechanics have to be balanced so you really can't bring game rules to the "real world" and have to rely on fluff mostly different from dif authors, either way ak47 is a stubber, its a gun from a production design of 1947 so i am pretty sure any gun in 40k is stronger than ak，

 

in the fluff, one squad of space marines could probable take over a continent on their own, since its ment to be that power armour could withstand all solid shot weapons and even a few bolter rounds, and a squad of terminators could whoop the entire planet, since its supposedly ment to be able to withstand a direct strike from a metior and even our tanks cant fire with that, I think all we could currently do to terminator armour would be to scratch the paint, and plus magnus could disrupt our entire planet with his psychic powers, and combined with the emperor they would mash the planet with powers we would have no defense against.

 

Are you saying the AK is a advanced weapon?
40k years in the future, it's pretty primitive for sure
Terminators would be a laugh, in th blackreach fluff, those orks had 'super shootas' that could take down a leman Russ right? A leman Russ which can survive a lascannon and still rumble onwards. But those same shootas just plincked off the termies armour. I don't think we would scratch the paint- shields would stop anything we could bring to bear!

And I read somewhere- I believe in flesh of cretacia but don't quote me on that, that the marine force guidelines was somewhere along...
1 marine for a city
1 squad for a continent
1 company for a planet
Bump it up one for orks/eldar

And that's 40k planets, our pea shooters wouldn't even need that much force!
The second the imperials do anything but fart in our direction there we're screwed!
And that's being generous!

 

Are you saying the AK is a advanced weapon?
40k years in the future, it's pretty primitive for sure

My point is that an ak47 is not weaker than an autogun - it is either stronger (aka heavy stubber) or it is essentially equivalent in terms of game mechanics.

:grin:

And I read somewhere- I believe in flesh of cretacia but don't quote me on that, that the marine force guidelines was somewhere along...
1 marine for a city
1 squad for a continent
1 company for a planet
Bump it up one for orks/eldar

And that's 40k planets, our pea shooters wouldn't even need that much force!

Interesting. I think that, if they took to the ground, we could probably kill a few just through nukes and masses of soldiers thrown at them. I think that it's plausible to say that a company could take the planet, they'd just lose a lot of guys doing it.

 

i the only one here thinking that this is a never gonna happen scenario (not because of the sheer fact that this is a different reality) but also because this is Terra? so the Imperium whose entire religious doctorine teaches that Terra (and segmentum solar if im not mistake) is Holy and they will instead bomb the shit out of it. not to mention that the crusade armies ( even the ones from 40K) seem to attempt peaceful resolution before all else fails. (look at Horus rising for the perfect example of this).

Just my 2 Cents really

 

Why are people quoting Nick Kyme? He doesn't work for games workshop, he's someones housetrained monkey they brought in for 'bring your pet to work day' but slipped his leash. He still hides out in the Printing department, occasionally smearing shit on the paper as its going through the printers and then packaging it out.

 

Only because they believe it is :wink:

 

The facts aren't solid- I just remember seeing that in a book somewhere, if someone knows that book, then point it out please
But game mechanics I don't think are valid- if a marine can achieve in game what they can in the fluff, then they would cost 1000pt+ and in the fluff, sluggas can't penetrate power armour, only the super shootas could
I think the only marines we could kill would be the high rankers, cos they don't wear helmets.
And it would take alot more than a 9mm to penetrate power armour as many parts of it can take a bolt round and survive- in the fluff
And I didn't even mention titans or their vehicles, and this is assuming they want this planet inhabital at the end- there's always extermiatus waiting

But hey- it'll all be a conspiracy :grin:

 

Not to mention the logistics. Chapters rarely have the logistics to send ships on missions with only a single Marine. They might have lone marines in charge of largely "in control" locations, where they act a a governer of existing infrastructure and military strategy, where they are an advisor to the military operations; similar to how they worked in Salvations Reach; 3 Astartes aid with a battle plan.

If you consider that each one is armed with an .75 calibre (18+mm size round, the equivalent of what comes out of a AH1Z Viper; essentially 2m "you are dead in here" zone, and a 20m frag radius) rifle with rapid fire capabilities, but also, presumably, due to its rocket assisted munitions, and the additions of an M.40 Targeter and Silencer, the ability to transform into an effective Anti-Material rifle; it wouldn't surprise me to learn of a Bolt round with small stabilising fins, which enable it to correct its course in flight.

So, if you want allegories, and to compare weapons systems; an AH1Z would be equipped with a S4 AP5 weapon as its main chin turret (although possibly of higher rate of fire).

A Rotor Cannon from the Heresy is a Marine portable heavy weapon; so likely a vehicle mounted equivalent would be an M134 (7.62 Gatling, rather than 20mm); are S3 AP6 Salvo 3/4.

As this is possibly the nearest we have in terms of weaponry to what 40K has, Salvo 3/4 represents a weapon capable of spewing out between 2000-6000rpm, S3 represents 7.62 ammunition (non explosive) with a muzzle velocity of 2800 m/s, and 30" range represents a km of maximum range (or possibly half that for maximum effective range).

Consider how quick that would chew through soft skinned targets in today, and even lightly armoured vehicles like Wombats or Humvees. That's probably AV9 for a Humvee. Not to mention how quick it would go through a human, body armour or no.

The Imperial Guard have Flak Armour which provides an Armour Save of 5+. That means that their armour has a chance of withstanding hits from what is considered one of the biggest levellers in todays armed forces; an M134 Minigun that is so heavy it cannot be adequately carried unless on a vehicle.

Yes, this is combining fluff and rules, and catgirls are dying left right and centre, but that's using the information to hand.

 

1 marine per city is bullshit. Even one marine against just one hundred soldiers would just fall from the sheer volume of shot coming at him and thats excluding grenade lauchers and RPGs and the like. Also i hate that assault on blackreach fluff. Terminator armour is tactical dreadnought armour which is the same armour dreadnoughts are made of if im not mistaken. Dreadnoughts have an armour value of 12, a leman russ has an armour of 14 how can these ''super shototas'' pentrate leman russ armour and not terminator armour. I know its probley in the fluff but its bullshit.

 

Also can someone tell me how orks technology is beyond us. All they have is spaceships and roks with the a zapp gun here and there. Im preetysure are best lasers are as good as theirs.

 

Because they believe it is. And it was stated several times in the fluff that ork tech surpasses the imperium.

 

You are mistaken.

As to how Orks material is better; well they say 'We'z da best' so that is why. Yes, that is actually hownit works. They want it to. If it didn't work, they didn't want it hard enough.