[klaswullt]

Regardless of the stupid (and very old) topic at hand, you're telling people the crap as how to behave and that their opinion is wrong without ever looking into their arguments, yet at the same time blatantly try to subdue them ?
I'd rather watch my manners if I were you ...
How old were you again ? Oh, rather old enough to have heard about the most basic information about genetics in high school …



Please. I do care about every argument and meant no harm, honestly.
I stated my counter-arguments.
You are telling me how to behave more than I do, I honestly don't know if
am telling people how to behave.
Subdue?, I intend to win arguments, though I guess I could be less aggressive.
Its not like I don't respect other peoples opinion.
Can I not tell people that they are wrong?, isn't that what everyone does?
I haven't called anyone stupid, I haven't used any curse words either.
You however insult me now, I haven't used any similar insults.
I honestly don't intend to marginalize anyone.
Are you sure you are not over-reacting and could calm down or something?
What could I possible have written to deserve this?

 

[MontytheMighty]

Fact: Women are physically weaker and have menstrual cycles

War is a man's game
The primarchs were made for war

 

[Darkoan]

I've done a fair amount of reading on the background fluff of 40K but I don't remember it ever saying this. This is either a revelation and I'd love to see where you got this information from, or it is simply an inference and nothing more.

And in any case, if a Primarch were to BE female, then the implants tied to the geneseed/implants would then, by your inference above, also be XX chromosome specific. Which means, basically, that if the Emperor had chosen to make a 'daughter', she would have spawned a female legion of Space Marines, which would mean it is perfectly reasonable that a SM could be female.

This.

As someone with a biomedical science background, there hasnt been a single argument in this zombie-like thread to suggest (with appropriate suspension of disbelief of course) why there could not have been a female Primarch.

Assuming the Emperor had the usual XY chromosome male genotype, theres no reason a Primarch could not have been created with an XX female genotype (for example, E could replicate his X chromosome, maybe play around with the XX chromosomes for some genetic variation etc). Dont forget the Primarchs were not clones of the Big E.

Furthermore theres no reason IF a female Primarch had been created why female Space Marines couldnt thereafter be 'produced' off her template. The argument that the conversion of a mortal to a SM is only able to occur in men (because of testosterone use??) is spurious - firstly women have testosterone in their systems (just not as much as men) and in fact we can see that women can endure higher levels of testosterone (see female body builders). Secondly, why couldnt the Emperor have made a slight adaptation to the process for the creation of female Space Marines which took into account their different hormone disposition?

People are (bewilderingly) getting Space Marines and Primarchs confused in this thread. However I DO agree that it would be very unlikely to create a female SM in the current 40k setting, as all known geneseed/implants would be hardwired to the XY genotype (having originated from males), and therefore incompatible with a mortal female.

As for the question as whether the Big E WOULD have created Female Primarchs - why not? Its one of my theories for the lost Primarchs. This rubbish about women being inadequate as soldiers - compare Alpharius/Omegon to Angron - is it always about brawn?

Anyone know a smart, conniving, calculating woman out there? I do. And Id prefer to serve a Primarch version of them, compared to a psycho Primarch like Angron or Curze.

But in the end, I have to relent and agree with the simple argument that women in the military just doesnt work. The less distractions the better and its as simple as that. We're talking about conquering the galaxy here - would you risk it for the sake of political correctness?

 

[Aramoro]

Fact: Women are physically weaker and have menstrual cycles

War is a man's game
The primarchs were made for war

Gee I wonder if the Emperor could have solved some of these issues when he was crafting the Primarchs? Oh of course not, I forgot people can see past the ludicrous nature of the back story but not past the fact they're scared of girl cause girls smell of wee.

The Primarchs were men in the same way you are a Macaque.

 

[Buttons]

Gee I wonder if the Emperor could have solved some of these issues when he was crafting the Primarchs? Oh of course not, I forgot people can see past the ludicrous nature of the back story but not past the fact they're scared of girl cause girls smell of wee.

The Primarchs were men in the same way you are a Macaque.

They were male in that they shared the same general physical appearance of a human male and presumably had male reproductive organs.

 

[Aramoro]

They were male in that they shared the same general physical appearance of a human male and presumably had male reproductive organs.

You have male reproductive organs, just like a male Macaque. The Primarchs were not Humans, Astarte are not humans so drawing parallels between them is not really that useful.

 

[DeathKlokk]

Yup, males being genespliced with female DNA. Whatever would result from that would be just wrong...

WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?!!!!

 

[Aramoro]

I don't see the problem.

 

[DeathKlokk]

"I am FranknFurticus! ALL will love me and DESPAIR!!!!!"

Beats the fuck out of Pony marines I guess.

 

[Warped Bitz]

I don't see the problem.

Thanks for making me splutter tea all over my keyboard -.- haha

 

[LukeValantine]

This.

As someone with a biomedical science background, there hasnt been a single argument in this zombie-like thread to suggest (with appropriate suspension of disbelief of course) why there could not have been a female Primarch.

Assuming the Emperor had the usual XY chromosome male genotype, theres no reason a Primarch could not have been created with an XX female genotype (for example, E could replicate his X chromosome, maybe play around with the XX chromosomes for some genetic variation etc). Dont forget the Primarchs were not clones of the Big E.

Furthermore theres no reason IF a female Primarch had been created why female Space Marines couldnt thereafter be 'produced' off her template. The argument that the conversion of a mortal to a SM is only able to occur in men (because of testosterone use??) is spurious - firstly women have testosterone in their systems (just not as much as men) and in fact we can see that women can endure higher levels of testosterone (see female body builders). Secondly, why couldnt the Emperor have made a slight adaptation to the process for the creation of female Space Marines which took into account their different hormone disposition?

People are (bewilderingly) getting Space Marines and Primarchs confused in this thread. However I DO agree that it would be very unlikely to create a female SM in the current 40k setting, as all known geneseed/implants would be hardwired to the XY genotype (having originated from males), and therefore incompatible with a mortal female.

As for the question as whether the Big E WOULD have created Female Primarchs - why not? Its one of my theories for the lost Primarchs. This rubbish about women being inadequate as soldiers - compare Alpharius/Omegon to Angron - is it always about brawn?

Anyone know a smart, conniving, calculating woman out there? I do. And Id prefer to serve a Primarch version of them, compared to a psycho Primarch like Angron or Curze.

But in the end, I have to relent and agree with the simple argument that women in the military just doesnt work. The less distractions the better and its as simple as that. We're talking about conquering the galaxy here - would you risk it for the sake of political correctness?

Glad to see someone else applying a neutral scientific view to the matter. As I mentioned earlier space marine does not equal primarch. In fact despite genetic similarities they probably are different enough to be considered different species, just like a marine vs a human.

 

[LukeValantine]

In fact its funny how the imperium hates mutants and xeno's, but by definition marines aren't human, nor are its primarchs or the emperor, and no they aren't super human they are none-human. Going by the fluff they are physiologically and genetically different enough to be considered a different species altogether.

 

[bobss]

just a quick question, why are there no female primarchs??
I'm not a girl, but doesn't that seem sexist??

Why the Hell should canon plausibility be compromised for equality bullshit?

 

[normtheunsavoury]

This.

As someone with a biomedical science background

As good as your argument is, the moment you try and apply science to 40K everything falls apart. The reason there are no female Space Marines or Primarchs is the same reason as bricks can fly and no one has ever thought to cover the tracks on a tank. The genetics involved in making a Primarch mean that it wouldn't have been possible to build a female version, what the scientific reason is will never be known, because GW didn't really think about that at the time.

 

[LukeValantine]

True 40k science is more like magic then anything......in fact or tech is magic.

 

[COMPNOR]

So, 18 pages later to include reviving what appeared to have been a long dormant thread, and I didn't see one person ask this question: What would be the benefit of a female Primarch?

I mean, the Emperor engineered these Primarchs right? Using parts of his own DNA, but sculpting them to fit his vision. So while I'm sure he could have made a Pitbull with Lipstick, massive Double G's, with the strength and smarts of any male Primarch, other than touting gender-equality, what tangible benefit would this bring? Why would the Emperor do this?

Several have pointed out women are better at things then men. Sure. But if he was making this Primarchs, wouldn't he have made them better in those areas if he so chose?

Simply what benefit would a female Primarch bring other then the "Cool factor"?

The movie "Soldier", men were selected to be the super soldiers. In Starship Troopers(novel), the Mobile Infantry were all men, but the Navy was primarily made up of Females. Shall we call those sexist too?

For all we know, maybe the Primarchs are really masculine Females, or Hermaphrodites who just get the male treat in the novels.

Or it's a lot simpler. The Emperor was a big homosexual, who liked to surround himself with fine male specimens, and not icky girls whom he had no interest in.

 

[Darkoan]

As good as your argument is, the moment you try and apply science to 40K everything falls apart. The reason there are no female Space Marines or Primarchs is the same reason as bricks can fly and no one has ever thought to cover the tracks on a tank. The genetics involved in making a Primarch mean that it wouldn't have been possible to build a female version, what the scientific reason is will never be known, because GW didn't really think about that at the time.

Fair enough too, but i also said 'with appropriate suspension of disbelief (SOD)'.

All discussion of fluff has to have a certain amount of SOD. My explanation of why a female Primarch COULD have been created within the paramters of known science both in our universe and the universe of WH40K i think passes this and noone has ever said anything reasonable to discount it apart from simple assertion (eg 'it wouldnt have been possible' - ok why not??), including some comment about bricks flying. I didnt follow you there.

As for why the Emperor WOULD make a female Primarchs, apart from ultimately agreeing that it wouldnt be a good idea, diversity for diversity's sake would be a reason. To argue why there should be no female Primarchs is exactly the same as arguing that there should have been 20 Guillimans or 20 Sanguinius' or 20 Angrons etc.

Think The Origin of Species by Darwin with a healthy understanding of human anthropology. Diversity is very often a good thing with apparent reasons not evidently clear to a short-sighted view of things. The Emperor clearly believed in this when he created 20 very different Primarchs, and my extrapolation is that it is within the realms of possibilities that he could have made a female primarch following on the theme.

Unlikely I admit.

 

[COMPNOR]

But how?? I mean, not even going "anything you can do I can do better", what diversity does it bring? What insight? These are all genetically engineered, created from scratch to be who they are.

What does adding breasts bring to the table? You're right every Primarch is unique, but I haven't seen the benefit described to having a female Primarch. I don't see the diversity this brings, other than she has to go to the bathroom a different way.

Let's stop talking about is it possible, since the Emperor is gifted enough to do just about anything he wants. Let's talk about the benefits of it.

 

[Stephen_Newman]

I use female Space Marines, don't see why there could not have been a female Primarch and I could not give a shit about the fluff in that regard.

There is very little reason, scientifically, why a female Space Marine could not be created. Sure they will more resemble a man rather than a woman at the end but I still see no reason why if a chapter was short of recruits (say a war on their home planet most of the men died protecting the planet whilst the women and children hid) why they would not use female Space Marines as a necessary interim for the chapter.

 

[Serpion5]

I use female Space Marines, don't see why there could not have been a female Primarch and I could not give a shit about the fluff in that regard.

There is very little reason, scientifically, why a female Space Marine could not be created. Sure they will more resemble a man rather than a woman at the end but I still see no reason why if a chapter was short of recruits (say a war on their home planet most of the men died protecting the planet whilst the women and children hid) why they would not use female Space Marines as a necessary interim for the chapter.

:suicide:







Sorry. But I can't really take this seriously. Dogma would stop them if science didn't.