[gothik]

Ummmm....hello? Sisters of Sexy Battle:biggrin:??? Ummm.....oh crap, I hope there aren't many ladies on here.....I'm so friggin' screwed.....

yup one here and unless u have hidden the chocolate you are safe.....maybe :biggrin:

 

[Old Man78]

Because the game was invented by a bunch of male uber geeks not female uber geeks and as a male uber geek when I was a little un I always dreamed of being big and powerful and smashing baddies, it is really basic male psychology, any young boy who wants to grow up to be superwoman not superman has ISSUES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Deadeye776]

The Emperor's choice. There's no other reason. With his biological genius if he wanted females in the roles of custodes,astartes,or primarchs he woul've made it happen. He didn't. We've spent many other debates trying to see this guy's logic and your going to have to chalk this one up to because he felt like it. He had the Silent Sisterhood. How come there weren't any males on that? Because he felt like women. Who knows, maybe there is an innate genetic reason.Maybe it was easier that way for him. Maybe not.

 

[JelloSea]

The Emperor was married to Slaanesh but didnt know it, used Slaanesh's DNA to make 2 primarchs since the power of his mate was outsanding. The heresy happened and the emperor got a divorce and Slaanesh had a good lawyer (Tzeench) and gained control of the two legions.

 

[Magpie_Oz]

Is it significant that women seem to be only represented on the evil side of things?

Dark Eldar and Eldar, Slaanesh, only the long neglected SoB carry the female flag for the Emperor.

 

[JelloSea]

How are you supposed to look sexy as a servant of the emperor? You need to be a bad, naughty girl!

 

[Serpion5]

Which would defeat the purpose wouldn't it?

 

[Aramoro]

Is it significant that women seem to be only represented on the evil side of things?

Dark Eldar and Eldar, Slaanesh, only the long neglected SoB carry the female flag for the Emperor.

I would contest the point that Eldar are evil, there are female guardsmen and female Inquisitors as well.

 

[jonileth]

40K is not so inflexible as to preclude the possibility of there being a female Primarch if that's what someone wants to believe. As has been stated before elsewhere, the concept of 'canon' in 40K is just as much a flexible thing as the fans need and want it to be. If it fits your stories and works well in YOUR interpretation of the 40K lore to have a female Primarch busting heads in the galaxy with a Chapter of female Space Marines to uphold her legacy... get right after it.

On the flip side, if you hold to the ideal that a female Primarch is a travesty of 40K, then don't acknowledge one and don't worry about it. Just because someone else wants it, it doesn't invalidate the decades of awesome gaming that has come of the 40K universe. Whether you like it or hate it, the concept itself isn't so perverse or strange that it can't exist. It's up to you, the player, as to what you believe and what you refuse to believe.

This idea that there is some kind of 'purity' of canon is ridiculous, I've seen just as many contradictions in 40K over the years to convince me that there is no such thing. It's all about what makes the story captivating. If you can make the story better, then why not have a female Primarch? And if you can't wrap your brain around a girl in Space Marine power armor... DON'T! Just press on thinking the Space Marines are all a bunch of dudes and live life like you want to. There's no shame in taking either side, for or against. As long as, at the end of the day, you can still enjoy the games, the fluff, and the legacy that is 40K... who cares?!

 

[LukeValantine]

Because the game was invented by a bunch of male uber geeks not female uber geeks and as a male uber geek when I was a little un I always dreamed of being big and powerful and smashing baddies, it is really basic male psychology, any young boy who wants to grow up to be superwoman not superman has ISSUES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I always wanted to grow up to be a transcendent being who could blast people apart by simply thinking about it. Never though gender was relevant to my particular power fantasy. In that respect I always loved the chaos gods as they could take the super human marine martial ideal of every male child and simply render them into ash with a casual gesture.

 

[MEQinc]

There is very little reason, scientifically, why a female Space Marine could not be created. Sure they will more resemble a man rather than a woman at the end but I still see no reason why if a chapter was short of recruits (say a war on their home planet most of the men died protecting the planet whilst the women and children hid) why they would not use female Space Marines as a necessary interim for the chapter.

Well the women clearly aren't worthy of being Space Marines. Not because they're girls but because they're cowards (or at least less interested in being alien-bashing-awesome-incarnate than in surviving). Becoming a Space Marine isn't about physical compatibility its about worth. And the fact of the matter is that men are typically more physically and mentally capable and willing to enact grievous violence on each other and thus draw the attention of the Marines, particularly on the culturally backwater worlds that Chapters tend to prefer.

As for a female Primarch. Yes, the Emperor could probably have created one if he'd wanted to, so you have all the wiggle room you need to craft your own. However as others have pointed out, there's no reason to create a female Primarch. A woman doesn't fundamentally think differently than a man. Ultimately all being a woman does is make armour somewhat more awkward.

Also can someone prove that the Primarchs are men? Their junk is never discussed and its possible that they don't even have conventional human DNA (as in an X and Y chromosome). They are masculine certainly, but that's to be expected.

And finally some food for thought. Isn't creating a female Primarch just because she's female just as sexist? What does she bring to the table that another Primarch can't, aside from boobs? Is being a girl special enough that being one is all you need to justify your existence in a story? Does holding up one Primarch and going "Look she's a girl!" really change the generally masculine and male-oriented nature of 40k? Is a female character necessary in order for something not to be sexist, and conversely does the existence of a female character automatically make a work not sexist?

 

[Sturmovic]

Right, but this brings up another question: If the primarchs are not genetically identical to the Emperor, then where did they get the rest of their genetic information? Either there is a primarch mother out there, or the emperor tweaked the genetic codes of the primarchs by making mutations. I'm leaning to the latter, given the wings of sanguinius, but it's fun to speculate that there is a mother of the imperium out there.

I say leftovers from the Dark Age of Technology.


Plus, has anyone considered the possibility that the Empra is sexist? He was born 8000 BC after all, so he might have had quite a few antiquated notions.

 

[Stephen_Newman]

Right, but this brings up another question: If the primarchs are not genetically identical to the Emperor, then where did they get the rest of their genetic information? Either there is a primarch mother out there, or the emperor tweaked the genetic codes of the primarchs by making mutations. I'm leaning to the latter, given the wings of sanguinius, but it's fun to speculate that there is a mother of the imperium out there.

The Horus Heresy series have dropped hints about this. It has been suggested that these were either mutations from the warp when being scattered or that the Primarchs were also created with power given to the Big E by the Chaos Gods.

 

[Aramoro]

Well the women clearly aren't worthy of being Space Marines. Not because they're girls but because they're cowards

Back that up a second here, did you actually just say that? I'm fairly sure you did. ......... yup yes you did.

 

[Darkoan]

Back that up a second here, did you actually just say that? I'm fairly sure you did. ......... yup yes you did.

I liked "A woman doesn't fundamentally think differently than a man"

I cant comment on the type of women this guy meets, but damn, wouldnt it be awesome if he were right? Do you realise how much more fellatio in the world there would be?

 

[Magpie_Oz]

I liked "A woman doesn't fundamentally think differently than a man"

I cant comment on the type of women this guy meets, but damn, wouldnt it be awesome if he were right? Do you realise how much more fellatio in the world there would be?

Actually that doesn't follow as men think about getting not giving.

 

[Serpion5]

And we're beginning to wander...

 

[LukeValantine]

Into a black bog of despair full of faceless nightmares beyond imagining?

 

[MEQinc]

Back that up a second here, did you actually just say that? I'm fairly sure you did. ......... yup yes you did.

Cowards because they ran and hid from the invading aliens. And I did rephrase it to "less interested in being alien-bashing-awesome-incarnate than in surviving". That's not a bad thing, not at all, but it's not what marines are.

And different focus' =/= fundamental different thought processes. As in, most guys probably think about sex more than most women but that doesn't mean women aren't capable of thinking about sex or think about it in a different way. Just that they think about it less. So a female Primarch then might spend less time thinking about getting laid than the masculine Primarchs, who think about it how much exactly?

 

[Darkoan]

Cowards because they ran and hid from the invading aliens. And I did rephrase it to "less interested in being alien-bashing-awesome-incarnate than in surviving". That's not a bad thing, not at all, but it's not what marines are.

And different focus' =/= fundamental different thought processes. As in, most guys probably think about sex more than most women but that doesn't mean women aren't capable of thinking about sex or think about it in a different way. Just that they think about it less. So a female Primarch then might spend less time thinking about getting laid than the masculine Primarchs, who think about it how much exactly?

Firstly, I think its near canon that Space Marines, and certainly Primarchs, have little to no interest in sex (that has ever been mentioned). So Im not sure how thats relevant. And... wait Im sorry, I have to move on.

And we're beginning to wander...

Ahem yes, what I really wanted to say is that this point of view that a female Primarch would be some kind of second-best version is ridiculous - the same applies whether youre talking about a SM or a Primarch.

My argument is simple - SMs are not just about brawn. And neither are the Primarchs. So therefore any suggestion that a female Primarch, who lets be honest would be likely physically weaker than her male counterparts, would not fit into the Emperor's plan is disingenuous. Its not unimportant, but its just not the only thing to consider.

Firstly, look at the number of implants a Space Marine receives - only two of them relate to brute force (Ossmodula - bones
Biscopea - muscle growth). Many aspects of physical superiority a Space Marine makes.

Secondly, the weakest IG wielding a plasma cannon packs the same firepower as a Primarch wielding it. In the WH40k setting, of any setting, brute strength is in fact an overrated characteristic to have. The books dont portray it that way because we all know hand to hand combat is awesome to read

Thirdly, to say brute force is all the Primarchs are about is just nonsense - if it were so the Emperor would have made 20 Angrons. But he didnt. Primarchs were designed not only to fight wth their bare fists and chain axes - they wielded spaceships, they commanded armies, they were military diplomats and strategists. Aspects unrelated to brawn. Brawn was relevant, but not as important as other characteristics IMO. For example, think of how much the Alpha twins (the 'weakest' Primarchs) accomplished in DL.

Now dont get me wrong, I hate political correctness and I detest 'diversity for diversity's sake' arguments. But I do believe that a diversity of thought process (which might reasonably be expected of a female Primarch) could have benefitted the GC. All 18 known Primarchs were diverse - a female point of view would have fit into that. Sure, that female legion would have been a little weaker physically, but as pointed out above I think that slight decrease in strength really is unimportant if one is prepared to take the stance that a diversity has its benefits as well.

I think a more relevant questions is what would have happended if ALL the Primarchs had been female?

If we can stereotype here: if women are less power hungry, more facilitative, less brazen, would the HH have even occurred?

Is it arguable that 20 female Primarchs with the faith of the sisters of battle would not have been tempted by Chaos?
I thinks its a very good argument.

So therefore would a female Primarch be an utterly ridiculous idea?