[Khorothis]

In game, yes he does. The Sisters of Battle have Acts of Faith that they can test for and use to bolster themselves. Fluff-wise these are prayers to the Emperor. In game one of them, Spirit of the Martyr, gives the unit an invulnerable save equal to its armor save. So, I guess the emperor protects zealots with tits in form fitting power armor but doesn't care about anyone else.

Fixed it for ya. :grin:

Seriously, I'm not kidding, you have to be some ultra-badass guy like Gaunt to attract the attention of the Emperor as a male. Hell, even his sons, the Space Marines can't even light a cigarette with their faith, and then there you have some crazy nuns with guns who can summon a shield of WTF that protects them even from the Demolisher Cannons of DOOM. And I don't remember him minding the existence of the Brides of the Emperor either...

 

[Mossy Toes]

Why is their being women a factor, apart from the terms of the Decree Passive? The vast majority of Space Marines, his "sons", don't regard him as a god, but instead, the greatest man who ever lived. The unfaithful are hardly likely to receive the blessings of faith, are they? And those that do, such as the Black Templars, get their rewards - visions from the Emperor marking out Emperor's Champions, and (in the Armageddon codex, though I don't know about Codex: BT) the ability to get a 6+ ward save instead of a cover save, and so on.

In contrast to the Astartes, the direct representatives of the Ecclesiarchy - yes, it's understandable that these get those blessings, isn't it? It is the Emperor's fault that the soldiers under arms most devoted to him religiously are forbidden from being "men under arms"?

Faith, in 40k, manifests its own rewards. The only thing that changes with different super-powerful warp deities is the type thereof.

 

[Durzod]

I know this'll be seen as heresy, but what better place? Looking back over the history of the game as well as some of the 40k novels I've come to the conclusion that the Emperor is a Chaos god. Just as Slaanesh was created by the combined decadence of the Eldar, the Emperor has been awakemed to godhood by millenia of human worship and devotion.
In game terms, early incanations of the Chaos army lists required players to field squads in their god's sacred number:
Slaanesh: 6
Nurgle: 7
Khorne: 8
Tzeentch: 9
IG/SM: 10
Coinicidence? I think not!

 

[Mossy Toes]

Of course it isn't!

Though I prefer the theory that His number is 5. It's a count-down, see, with Slaanesh being 6, and the Star Child, the God of Order, to be 5. After all, a fist has 5 fingers...and you OBEY the fist. Who, then, will eventually be 4?

 

[Child-of-the-Emperor]

the God of Order

Can I ask your reasoning behind why he would be a God of Order?

 

[VanitusMalus]

I've been believing the same thing about him that's he just a Chaos God on the rise. I mean there were the early stories of the 12 powerful shamans who became The Emperor, but once he was broken during the fight with Horus and placed in the Golden Throne they said he part of the Immaterium also. I mean he's only reason the beacon works that allows ships to travel over large areas of space. So he has to exist. I think like with the Eldar one day he's going to have a birthcry, Terra is going to get swallowed and thus will begin the reign of the Emperor/God/whatever.


Also I agree what's the nuns getting all the love. I mean what about the Inquisitors? Hell even Commissars? Ok maybe these two are more faithful to power and dishing out pain, but still.

 

[hailene]

Per Saint Sabbat, she received strength and speed beyond human capability from the Old Man.

Though I guess this reinforces Empy likes Tits theory.

 

[Mossy Toes]

edit: double-post. Oops.

 

[Mossy Toes]

Counting Imperial Saints in the most complete list that I could find (on Lexicanum), male saints predominate heavily. There were 13 male saints and 10 females - including the 6 Sisters of Battle founders, who were sort of a lumped-in group and didn't crop up at random like the rest - and 22 more unlabeled (which I hazard at a 12/10 split, in male favor). As a whole, then, given the available resources, I am inclined to believe that the Emperor doesn't care which gender he picks as the instrument of His will. And also, who was the most famous of all saints? The one that made Sabbat look like a backwater girl in a dimly lit corner of the galaxy? Ah yes, Sebastian Thor.

Child: It's just a theory that I was impressed enough with the first time that I saw, that I was convinced. I'm trying to find the document somewhere around the web and to get permission to post it from the original author, but it looks like it was (possibly) almost entirely lost when the BL forums went down.

 

[Khorothis]

@Mossy Toes

Where are you getting those numbers from? And why so serious? :grin: But I just can't resist arguing... again... :laugh:

So you see, my problem is that crazy nuns with guns get buffs, while valiant knights of the Imperium who kept the whole race running in the past ten thousand years (AKA Space Marines) get nothing, purely based on their concept that the Emperor is not a god but 40K's Chuck Norris. The problem with this is if the Emperor gave a damn about his sons, he'd at the very least send them a mail, saying "HEY GUYZ I BECAME A GAWD!!! ITS OKAY TO WORSHIP ME!!!", again at the very least.

If the Space Marines knew he became a god, they'd worship him, but he keeps that a secret because then everyone would actually take him serious and he would have to compete with the Chaos Gods on the Religion Market much more openly. He'd have to provide a feasible explanation why is he providing everyone all the carnage, hope and education, death, and sex they want. Wouldn't look awkward, not at all. "Worship me, I'm a cooler god of war than that barbarian Khorne, I prefer if you lived!", "I'm a better god of hope and knowledge because I don't turn your face into an ass (or worse) just for the hell of it!", "If you want death and decay then I'm your man! I've been rotting in the past ten thousand years and I'm also probably the cause of 50%+ of the destruction and misery thats going on in the galaxy!", and "If you think that Slaanesh is just way too creepy, come and pay a visit to my girls! Way better and they don't have anything unexpected under their loincloth (as opposed to Daemonettes)."

Long story short: Emps loves tits, just like hailene said (I loled hard there, dude), and the existence of the Sisters of Battle only proves this point. The rest was just joke. :laugh: Or maybe not...

 

[Mossy Toes]

Lexicanum, as I said previously - though it might not be the most accurate and complete source, it was handy and served the purpose well enough to display a point.

And trust me - I'm not getting offended or raeging. The internet just doesn't lend itself well to inflection. :wink:

@Mossy Toes
So you see, my problem is that crazy nuns with guns get buffs, while valiant knights of the Imperium who kept the whole race running in the past ten thousand years (AKA Space Marines) get nothing, purely based on their concept that the Emperor is not a god but 40K's Chuck Norris. The problem with this is if the Emperor gave a damn about his sons, he'd at the very least send them a mail, saying "HEY GUYZ I BECAME A GAWD!!! ITS OKAY TO WORSHIP ME!!!", again at the very least.

I think that he was too busy nursing his boo-boos from Horus to send out a memo for a while there. By now, though, I think it's more the fact that the Space Marines are too set in their ways and busy mumbling, "when I was your age..." to all the stripling young organizations that are barely six millenia old. There's nothing stopping them from partyin' like a Saint (gettin' quaint, snortin' paint 'til they're feelin' faint) (shoot me before I try that again)...besides the threat of having to cede much of their individuality and independence to the Ecclesiarchy to be officially recognized.

"If you think that Slaanesh is just way too creepy, come and pay a visit to my girls! Way better..."

QFT.

Q. F. F. T. :good:

(I also laughed at the Nurgy bit)

You may just be saying that the Big E is a womanizing pimp - but I'm more under the impression that he'd accept the Space Marines under his umbrella of protection against that aweful warp-rain if they'd just cross the street and plop themselves down beneath it.

But...boys will be boys, and get soaking wet.

 

[shaantitus]

This thread just got really funny.

 

[Snowy]

I would say he's a demi-god.

In Egyptian Mythology a Demi-god is like a Pharoh whose being gifted life of in between immortality and mortal life, so like he's super powerful, maybe enough to challenge one or two Chaos Gods but if like two or more ganged up on him he'd get owned (Anyone for fried Emperor)

Oh, and of course he protects the Nuns, what the hell they're NUN'S, but they do have guns, and very shapely power armour.

 

[Durzod]

Space Marines get nothing drom The Emperor on the tabletop? I huess an auto-tally with no need to test against leadership or unit soze is nothing.
As I recall with what's left of my memory the SMs don't worship the Emp because some of the eldest (granted mostly encased in Dreads) remember fighting for him pre-Throne.

 

[Child-of-the-Emperor]

Child: It's just a theory that I was impressed enough with the first time that I saw, that I was convinced. I'm trying to find the document somewhere around the web and to get permission to post it from the original author, but it looks like it was (possibly) almost entirely lost when the BL forums went down.

I wasn't so much questioning the theory, rather just the idea that he would be a god of 'order'?

I think there's still a good case for the Emperor not being a god of 'Order', but a god of 'Obedience and Ignorance'. Ignorance as a virture, blind obedience, dedication to duty no matter what...this is almost the definition of the loyal Astartes, the Arbites, the Ministorum, the Custodians.

Worshipping the Emperor isn't about love or devotion; it's about doing as you're told and not questioning it.

That, as a core 'concept', is very distinct from the Chaos Gods, but it's not exactly order, 'O'rder, perhaps, but order vs chaos...nah. It's all still chaos.

It also begs the question is order as a concept even possible in the warp?

By my personal theory is that the God-Emperor (a seperate entity to the Emperor) has been created in the warp by 10,000 years of being worshipped by Trillions. This worship is dictated by the Ecclesiarchy, so the God-Emperor is an entity which is exactly how the Ecclesiarchy percieve the real Emperor and worship him. In this sense the God-Emperor is another warp entity, a bleak and terrible god that represents Obedience and Ignorance, and does exactly what the Ecclesiarchy (unconsciously) tells it to do. In my view the God-Emperor is a warp entity and thus born of Chaos, and cannot resemble Order.

 

[Bloody Mary]

I always thought that if God-Emperor were to become/was a god, he's be the Chaos God of fear and faith. The Eldar created Slaanesh by indulging themselves way too much and Slaanesh's field is excess. What do humans do? They fear (aliens, mutants, heretics, the Inquisition, etc., etc.) and they have faith in the Emperor that he will protect them.

 

[Khorothis]

I think that he was too busy nursing his boo-boos from Horus to send out a memo for a while there. By now, though, I think it's more the fact that the Space Marines are too set in their ways and busy mumbling, "when I was your age..." to all the stripling young organizations that are barely six millenia old. There's nothing stopping them from partyin' like a Saint (gettin' quaint, snortin' paint 'til they're feelin' faint) (shoot me before I try that again)...besides the threat of having to cede much of their individuality and independence to the Ecclesiarchy to be officially recognized.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You may just be saying that the Big E is a womanizing pimp - but I'm more under the impression that he'd accept the Space Marines under his umbrella of protection against that aweful warp-rain if they'd just cross the street and plop themselves down beneath it.

But...boys will be boys, and get soaking wet.

I'm sorry but I still think that Emps really should have sent a memo or something to his kids.

Believe me, they'd get wet under the umbrella too. :grin: I'd elaborate but we have kids here. :grin:

I wasn't so much questioning the theory, rather just the idea that he would be a god of 'order'?

I think there's still a good case for the Emperor not being a god of 'Order', but a god of 'Obedience and Ignorance'. Ignorance as a virture, blind obedience, dedication to duty no matter what...this is almost the definition of the loyal Astartes, the Arbites, the Ministorum, the Custodians.

Worshipping the Emperor isn't about love or devotion; it's about doing as you're told and not questioning it.

That, as a core 'concept', is very distinct from the Chaos Gods, but it's not exactly order, 'O'rder, perhaps, but order vs chaos...nah. It's all still chaos.

It also begs the question is order as a concept even possible in the warp?

By my personal theory is that the God-Emperor (a seperate entity to the Emperor) has been created in the warp by 10,000 years of being worshipped by Trillions. This worship is dictated by the Ecclesiarchy, so the God-Emperor is an entity which is exactly how the Ecclesiarchy percieve the real Emperor and worship him. In this sense the God-Emperor is another warp entity, a bleak and terrible god that represents Obedience and Ignorance, and does exactly what the Ecclesiarchy (unconsciously) tells it to do. In my view the God-Emperor is a warp entity and thus born of Chaos, and cannot resemble Order.

Very good thought you have there. Intriguing. This could potentially lead to a harsh division in the Imperium. Just imagine, Emperor+Space Marines vs. God-Emperor+Ordo Hereticus+Ecclesiarchy, with Imperial Guard forces on both sides and probably the Ordo Malleus and Ordo Xenos would be divided too, or maybe they'd pick a side. But then Emps would have to pull himself together rather literally and start doing it right after more than ten thousand years of doing it WRONG, and yes, in capital letters

 

[Child-of-the-Emperor]

Very good thought you have there. Intriguing. This could potentially lead to a harsh division in the Imperium. Just imagine, Emperor+Space Marines vs. God-Emperor+Ordo Hereticus+Ecclesiarchy, with Imperial Guard forces on both sides and probably the Ordo Malleus and Ordo Xenos would be divided too, or maybe they'd pick a side. But then Emps would have to pull himself together rather literally and start doing it right after more than ten thousand years of doing it WRONG, and yes, in capital letters

The Point is though is the Ecclesiarchy would not be unaware of the entity; the God-Emperor. They think it is just the Emperor, but where as according to my theory it is actually the God-Emperor, a different entity completley.

The Ecclesiarchy (and therefore most of humanity) are worshipping one entity (the Emperor), but their prayers are being answered by another entity (The God-Emperor). Going by this theory the divine interventions which seem to occur are mostly orchestrated by the God-Emperor, not the Emperor.

Its even possible that both entities, the Emperor (the corpse of the great warlord who conquered the galaxy) and the God-Emperor (The warp entity created in the warp by the power of worship of trillions of humans across millenia) are linked somehow, maybe the Emperor has somehow connected to the God-Emperor in an attempt to become more powerful and save humanity... hmm...

Just my thoughts anyway.

 

[Mossy Toes]

*True and valid points.*

Effectively what you've just explained, being too lazy to recap it myself, and even too lazy to post it up originally, I suppose. Order is, indeed, a gross simplification, and not even one that cuts close to the truth, at that. It was a handy term, and you have sufficiently slapped the well-deserving me for using it. :wink:

To quote the document I'm searching for (most of the rest of): "Where [the Chaos Gods] spread chaos, He spread oppression. Where their daemons were feral nightmares that rended souls, His daemons were faceless automata, enslaving the souls of humans into servitude. Star Father daemon worlds sprung up in the eye and across the galaxy in the closing thousand years of this dark age [this being Warhammer 50k]. They were balls of featureless gold, with golden, faceless daemons and billions of mindless, empty humans. The inhabitants of these worlds shuffled across the surface for no particular reason until they simply died of starvation, or fatigue."

 

[Khorothis]

@Child-of-the-Emperor

I thought that the moment the God-Emperor was born, the Emperor would come back to life and look awesome again (Lich-Emperor? No thanks) for some reason. Maybe the reason why he was so passive in the past ten thousand years was that he was trying to keep the God-Emperor from being born. Or maybe the inner shaman suddenly had a dispute and couldn't come to an agreement, and thus the two different Emperors were born.

Or it could be that the Emperor would act as an avatar of the God-Emperor, much like the Avatar of Khaine. They are one, but act as two.

@Mossy Toes

Wheres that from? Its awfully familiar... O_O