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Discussion Starter #21
Yeah, the agility of 0 is pretty awesome from an attacker's perspective. The problem is the three TIEs that accompany it who may steal my attention away at crucial moments.

As for the missiles, and since I don't have any other ships (and furthermore Y-Wings are beyond my reach locally despite my desire for one....or three), what would you suggest as an alternative? I can't afford AMs on the pair of Z's and adding too many things to the X's means I've too many upgrades to choose from and not enough time to make their points back. Maybe AMs on only one Z and PTs on Luke?
 

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Hypothetical development:

Luke Skywalker (28)
Marksmanship (3)

Wedge Antilles (29)
R2-D2 (4)
Shield Upgrade (4)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Lieutenant Blount (17)
Ion Pulse Missiles (3)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Also: I just noticed now (oops) that Ion Pulse Missiles and Proton Rockets DO NOT SPEND THE TARGET LOCK OR FOCUS. They simply require you to HAVE a Target Lock or Focus in order to perform the attack. This makes them significantly better than previously thought. I've been playing this wrong for the two months I've been in the system...
 

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Auto-Blasters would be good to munch up a Decimator, but it'd have to be on something pretty nippy to keep up with any other enemy ships :)
 

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Discussion Starter #24
This makes them significantly better than previously thought.
Not that this came up in the games that I just played, but since the TL isn't spent shooting the IPMs does that mean I can use them to re-roll if I miss? 'Cuz that would kinda make Munitions Failsafe a total waste of point barring a dice conspiracy.

I played this list in two games against a Decimator, Howlrunner, and Dark Curse. Won the first one, lost the second one. In both I destroyed the Decimator though, even came SO CLOSE to Ion coma'ing the bitch right off the board edge. Something I am now hell bent on making happen if someone's gunna try to hug the board edges with a big turret ship.
 

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I just noticed now (oops) that Ion Pulse Missiles and Proton Rockets DO NOT SPEND THE TARGET LOCK OR FOCUS. They simply require you to HAVE a Target Lock or Focus in order to perform the attack. This makes them significantly better than previously thought. I've been playing this wrong for the two months I've been in the system...
umm

Doesn't the ATTACK:TARGET LOCK/FOCUS mean that you use up said item to pull off the attack? otherwise the Deadeye ability is worthless...

Also, i tweaked with your list, mostly just playing around with the ships (pilots vary)...what homework??

Garven Dreis — X-Wing 26
Flechette Torpedoes 2
R5 Astromech 1
Munitions Failsafe 1

"Hobbie" Klivian — X-Wing 25
Flechette Torpedoes 2
R5 Astromech 1
Munitions Failsafe 1

Bandit Squadron Pilot — Z-95 Headhunter 12
Assault Missiles 5
Munitions Failsafe 1

Lieutenant Blount — Z-95 Headhunter 17
Deadeye 1
Assault Missiles 5
 

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Yeah, you simply need to have a Focus or TL token on your ship in order to use the attack, you don't need to spend them in the case of IPMs and Prockets. I think this was a deliberate move by FFG to increase the power of ordnance as the waves came on, as it's very underpowered at the moment. Allowing you to use the Lock or Focus to modify the attack roll with the Torps is a big step forward.

Failsafe is still worth it, as even if you roll 4 hits (or something) it's equally possible that you might be throwing it at a Phantom who's sitting on 5 green dice and an evade token, in which case it can still dodge all of those hits you managed to get with the Target Lock reroll, or the Focus for Prockets. It allows you to keep using the missiles until you actually get damage through onto the ship, and thus an Ion or Stress token depending on the warhead. If you're taking the Ordnance as a kind of "optional extra points filler" then you might skip the Failsafe in favour of another Modification, but if it's the primary role of the ship, I'd never leave home without it.
 

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This is very important news indeed.

edit: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Sethis again.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Deadeye is great because it lets a ship that doesn't have Target Lock still do Secondary Weapon attacks that require it, though even if you do have TL there's lots of times I find myself Focus-ing just in case I know I'm going to get hit with a lot of shots.

Fun times could ensue if you have a pilot or upgrade that hands out Focus tokens to your Deadeye pilot who's stacked with missiles.
 

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Discussion Starter #30 (Edited)
Played a couple games today against the Imperial Aces Interceptors and a pair of TIEs, Dark Curse and Howlrunner. Got beat both times!! First one was all my movement, one of my ships erroneously went a bit off the table edge (d'oh!) at a crucial moment and the second one I couldn't roll an Evade for the life of me. Even my buddy agreed the green dice were on his side (being that the Imperial lasers are green). Either way, IPMs are out in favour of AMs. I need to be doing more damage, more of the time (as fun as that Ion drift is, I'll have to get back to it). I'll have to come back with a list, but I'm digging the Z-95 loadouts that @Fallen suggested earlier. Just have to research the X-Wing pilots a little bit more before I get something together.

Holy crap this game is fun even when you're losing.

EDIT: OK, here's a list:

Wedge Antilles - R5P9
Garvin Dries - R2D2
Bandit Sq. Pilot - Assault Missiles, Munitions Failsafe
Bandit Sq. Pilot - Assault Missiles, Munitions Failsafe

With all luck, Garvin keeps handing Wedge focus tokens to help with whatever needs helping with; chief among those is shield regeneration. He's been fuckin' RAN in ever game I've played because of his ability. Bandit Sq. is all about unleashing AMs on groups of enemies (because Howlrunner's a friggin' jackass with his TIE squads). Whaddaya think? It's at 98 points to try and steal initiative, but I could swap R2D2 for something...anything really. Ion Torpedoes look like a lot of fun for causing havoc on a group of enemies, though I do like the crits from their Proton equivalent.
 

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Unfortunately Ordnance tends to be target-specific, which is another reason (apart from reliability and expense) that it's not taken. You might be playing against Phantoms one game (who hate stress) and against Keyan (who loves it) or Tycho (who doesn't give a crap) the next. IPMs are gold against something like the Decimator, but rubbish vs TIE swarms. It's a bit of a shame you're having to fill your list points with them, but hey ho!

Here's one that involves no Ordnance, I've tried my best to stick to cards you own:

Wedge Antilles (29)
Marksmanship (3)
R2-D2 (4)

Biggs Darklighter (25)
R2-F2 (3)
Stealth Device (3)

Airen Cracken (19)
Squad Leader (2)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Basically Biggs keeps Cracken and Wedge alive, while Cracken allows Biggs and Wedge to use their upgrade abilities as well as Focus/Target Locks, and you've got R2D2 for when Biggs finally bites the dust as Wedge is the next highest priority target. It basically depends entirely on how good you are at rolling 4 Green dice with a Focus token up :p
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Even vs. the Decimator I found weight of fire to be much more important than the Ion drift that I love to much, mostly due to the 360 degree firing arc of large ships. I edited my post as you posted, have any new thoughts after seeing the list? I'm digging that list option by the way.

Also, total card owning relaxation. If I can't print them off I'm going to just write them down for reference in-game. Just out of curiosity, does this game always have to be Rebel v. Imperial (with Scum thrown in) or can the same faction face itself (for Imperial v. Imperial games)?
 

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in general for 1v1s (outside of tournament setting) it tends to stay thematic and be Rebels vs Empire, however in a tournament anything can fight anything - RvR and EvE is a common experience.

Edit:

From @Sethis in the post just earlier

Wedge Antilles (29)
Marksmanship (3)
R2-D2 (4)

Biggs Darklighter (25)
R2-F2 (3)
Stealth Device (3)

Airen Cracken (19)
Squad Leader (2)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Total: 100
My view on the list would be to drop Airen to a Tala Sqd pilot, and upgrade Bandit to Tala Sqd. proceed to load with missiles of choice* (I have Cluster Missiles and Proton Rockets in my example list)

I do not like stealth devices (unless you have it on an a-wing or the like that SHOULDN'T be focus fired upon) since if you get hit once you just lost 3 points, and more often than not it is the first volley against the ship that it suffers a hit with me whenever I take it - yay Murphey's Law.

R2-F2 is the same for me as well, since he uses up your action - so no target locking (which I find more valuable for X-wings) or whatever.

For X-wings in general I think R2-D6 (Grants a Medal slot) is great on X-wings (too bad you can only have him once...), and I also notice that you ALWAYS include Wedge and some other named character.

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From @ntaw from the page before, the edit...

Wedge Antilles - R5P9
Garvin Dries - R2D2
Bandit Sq. Pilot - Assault Missiles, Munitions Failsafe
Bandit Sq. Pilot - Assault Missiles, Munitions Failsafe
I actually like this list, in fact I think it *MIGHT* be better to drop a Z-95, make the other a Tala sqd pilot (or Blount), give Wedge & Garvin a shield upgrade and/or some torpedoes/upgrades (Push the limit/marksmanship/deadeye/swarm tactics/etc)

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With the ships that you currently have I would try running a list without anyone special (I have provided a list), and pending on how you play i suggest flying in formation (so everyone makes the same movements, or similar ones, compared to how I run my Tie swarm which is "bee-hive" like).

Rebels flying in formation can be a scary thing for most imperial lists to deal with.

Red Squadron Pilot — X-Wing 23
Proton Torpedoes 4
R5 Astromech 1
Shield Upgrade 4

Red Squadron Pilot — X-Wing 23
Proton Torpedoes 4
R5 Astromech 1
Shield Upgrade 4

Tala Squadron Pilot — Z-95 Headhunter 13
Assault Missiles 5

Tala Squadron Pilot — Z-95 Headhunter 13
Assault Missiles 5
 

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Just out of curiosity, does this game always have to be Rebel v. Imperial (with Scum thrown in) or can the same faction face itself (for Imperial v. Imperial games)?
It can, but it tends to be a less interesting game, to a certain extent, because they're designed to play off each others strengths and weaknesses. For example because Rebels depend on shields instead of green dice, an Empire vs Empire game tends to result in lots of dice being thrown to little effect (because TIE's natively only have 2 red dice but 3 green, which averages out to 0 dmg when rolled against itself, ditto Squints with Stealth Devices) whereas Rebel matchups tend to be a simple matter of who brought the most red dice, and if they can apply it in a focused manner, because Rebels are often only throwing 1-2 green dice vs 3-4 red ones.

Hence why Imps vs Rebels tends to be a better game, as they have different, but complementary styles.

My view on the list would be to drop Airen to a Tala Sqd pilot, and upgrade Bandit to Tala Sqd. proceed to load with missiles of choice* (I have Cluster Missiles and Proton Rockets in my example list)
If you drop Airen then the entire list falls apart - the whole concept is that he's allowing Biggs and Wedge to take two actions per turn - Marksmanship and Target Lock/Focus on Wedge and R2-F2 and Focus on Biggs.

I'm not a huge fan of Talas unless I actually have the points spare in the list - the difference between PS2 and 4 is fairly negligible unless you're doing Reb vs Reb, in order to edge out those opposing Blue Squads, A-Wings, Rookies and so on. The Empire tends to be PS1 or PS6+ in their lists.

I also notice that you ALWAYS include Wedge and some other named character.
Because Rookies aren't really very cost-efficient, unfortunately. They're not as overcosted as the E-Wing ones, but the named X's are certainly a better buy. :)

Red Squadron Pilot — X-Wing 23
Proton Torpedoes 4
R5 Astromech 1
Shield Upgrade 4

Red Squadron Pilot — X-Wing 23
Proton Torpedoes 4
R5 Astromech 1
Shield Upgrade 4

Tala Squadron Pilot — Z-95 Headhunter 13
Assault Missiles 5

Tala Squadron Pilot — Z-95 Headhunter 13
Assault Missiles 5
In this case I'd certainly drop the Talas down to Bandits in order to buy Failsafes. 5pts is too many to miss with.

Wedge Antilles - R5P9
Garvin Dries - R2D2
Bandit Sq. Pilot - Assault Missiles, Munitions Failsafe
Bandit Sq. Pilot - Assault Missiles, Munitions Failsafe
I'd drop a missile/failsafe for Hull upgrades on Wedge and Garvin, they're going to be targets 1 and 2 respectively, and Wedge doesn't have anything that directly increases his ability to take damage, only to recover from it. Hell, I'd drop the other missiles for some Pilot skills too, but I know your main opponent is running TIEs in formation so I guess it's not too out of line to design something with that in mind... :grin:
 

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Discussion Starter #35 (Edited)
Wedge Antilles (29)
Marksmanship (3)
R2-D2 (4)

Biggs Darklighter (25)
R2-F2 (3)
Stealth Device (3)

Airen Cracken (19)
Squad Leader (2)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Total: 100
Something I have noticed is that against Interceptors I don't often have time to use green maneuvers to benefit from R2D2's ability. It's awesome to get shields back when I de-stress, but I really didn't seem to have time for shield regeneration when that wasn't the case. I'm liking Cracken though, haven't really given him much thought, and sacrificing Biggs to keep Wedge firing more often might just be crucial. I mean, I'm gunna lose my X's. May as well try to control the downfall :laugh:

I actually like this list, in fact I think it *MIGHT* be better to drop a Z-95, make the other a Tala sqd pilot (or Blount), give Wedge & Garvin a shield upgrade and/or some torpedoes/upgrades (Push the limit/marksmanship/deadeye/swarm tactics/etc)
Thanks, your advice has been crucial in its creation! I initially posted a three man list before and even played it but really found that I could have used the other ship (hence me buying one like 3 seconds after saying I didn't want to buy a new ship :grin:). What do you think of this idea:

X-Wing: Wedge Antilles - R5P9, Shield Upgrade, Marksmanship
X-Wing: Garvin Dries - R5 Astromech, Ion Torpedoes, Shield Upgrade
Z-95: Airen Cracken - Assault Missiles, Munitions Failsafe

100 points

Or I could replace Cracken with Z-95: Blount - Deadeye, Assault Missiles, though as much as I like auto-inducing the effects of the missiles with Blount (and Initiative potentially at 98 points) I think I like Cracken for handing out actions.

Red Squadron Pilot — X-Wing 23
Proton Torpedoes 4
R5 Astromech 1
Shield Upgrade 4

Red Squadron Pilot — X-Wing 23
Proton Torpedoes 4
R5 Astromech 1
Shield Upgrade 4

Tala Squadron Pilot — Z-95 Headhunter 13
Assault Missiles 5

Tala Squadron Pilot — Z-95 Headhunter 13
Assault Missiles 5
I know shields are better than hull points because you ignore any kind of damage, but would it be worth it to drop the Shield Upgrades to Hull Modifications in order to add Munitions Failsafes to the Z's? As Sethis pointed out, that's a lot of points to miss with.

@Sethis I like the idea of being able to run bare bones ships like the Z's without upgrades, but I think my flying skills have to improve before a tactic like that works. I'm still getting used to the turn templates and formations have been...a little too tight, shall we say, for the last little while. As for what I'll be facing off against with this list, here's a general sweep of the Imperial ships/lists in my (and my girlfriend's) collection and those in my friend's:

Decimator, 2-4 TIEs (w. Howlrunner)
Decimator, 2 TIEs (Howlrunner, Dark Curse)
2 Interceptors (Imperial Aces), 2-4 TIEs (Howlrunner potentially)
7-8 TIEs (Howlrunner potentially)

That being said, in games with my buddy I could have access to two more X-Wings, and the A/B-Wings from the Rebel Aces box...but I'm trying to learn what I have before I get into new ships (more frustratingly at times, their dials).
 

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Thanks, your advice has been crucial in its creation! I initially posted a three man list before and even played it but really found that I could have used the other ship (hence me buying one like 3 seconds after saying I didn't want to buy a new ship :grin:). What do you think of this idea:

X-Wing: Wedge Antilles - R5P9, Shield Upgrade, Marksmanship
X-Wing: Garvin Dries - R5 Astromech, Ion Torpedoes, Shield Upgrade
Z-95: Airen Cracken - Assault Missiles, Munitions Failsafe

100 points

Or I could replace Cracken with Z-95: Blount - Deadeye, Assault Missiles, though as much as I like auto-inducing the effects of the missiles with Blount (and Initiative potentially at 98 points) I think I like Cracken for handing out actions.

I am not personally a fan of Cracken, he is effectively 17 points with a more useful version of squad leader, I would rather spend those 2 points (squad leader) on Blount -who is really just a 16 pt ship with a built in fail safe, and IMO PS6 vs PS8 is negligible in the games I play (which is a little more "spammy" where most people will field the generic pilots* and only 1 or 2 Unique characters are in the list. So by default I would take Blount.

For example, in MY Tie swarm list: it is not very dependent upon a single pilot (exception is Howlrunner, but I tend to NOT run her/him/it since I tend to group my ties a little too much (and proceed to get fucked up with ion torpedoes/assault missiles) so I end up trying to stay away from him. Often I find that I run Mauler and Backstabber + generic pilots (as many as I can, usually a minimum of 4 PS4+ pilots)
Howlrunner or Mauler
Backstabber or Mauler
Black Sqd x 2-3
Obsidian Sqd 2-3
Academy Pilot 0-2


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In general most people here tend to run B-wings here, there is hardly a list that doesn't include at least 1 (or a Y-wing with an R2 Astromech and ion turret) that is supported by Z-95s and X-wings. A-wings tend to be under played since they are REALLY cost inefficient when given missiles, they are best played as the Rebels version of the interceptor. Several people love the Hawk (mainly for Roark making something PS12).

I know shields are better than hull points because you ignore any kind of damage, but would it be worth it to drop the Shield Upgrades to Hull Modifications in order to add Munitions Failsafes to the Z's? As Sethis pointed out, that's a lot of points to miss with.

That is debatable, since in my games against a tie swarm a ship with PS2 and assault missiles will probably be dead (from moving 1st and not being able to target lock) before he could shoot his missiles - again in my games the average PS is 4 for Rebels (3.5ish if you take PS2 Z-95s) and 4-4.5 for the Empire (pending build; my tie swarm tends to average near 4.3)

@Sethis I like the idea of being able to run bare bones ships like the Z's without upgrades, but I think my flying skills have to improve before a tactic like that works. I'm still getting used to the turn templates and formations have been...a little too tight, shall we say, for the last little while. As for what I'll be facing off against with this list, here's a general sweep of the Imperial ships/lists in my (and my girlfriend's) collection and those in my friend's:

Decimator, 2-4 TIEs (w. Howlrunner)
Decimator, 2 TIEs (Howlrunner, Dark Curse)
2 Interceptors (Imperial Aces), 2-4 TIEs (Howlrunner potentially)
7-8 TIEs (Howlrunner potentially)

That being said, in games with my buddy I could have access to two more X-Wings, and the A/B-Wings from the Rebel Aces box...but I'm trying to learn what I have before I get into new ships (more frustratingly at times, their dials).
X-wings and Z-95s have practically the same dial though. So there should be very little in "knowing" what they can/cannot do.

If you are running them in formation then simply flying in formation is the hard part; I found to have roughly half a base (so half of an inch) between each ship works best, and if you are turning (say to the left and there are 3 ships) if you are "properly" spaced then everyone should be able to do a X turn without running into each other - OR the middle pilot needs to fly X+1 since that should have him sufficiently spaced to NOT run into a friendly ship. In general when I run my rebels in formation I run them in pairs, each pair should be self sustaining (aka each has a X-wing with proton torpedoes, and a Z-95 with a X missile) and be equally dangerous if left alone/not dealt with properly.

TL;DR expand what you can do with ANY ship/pilot, don't just pigeon hole yourself to become dependent upon R2-D2 and Wedge or whatever it may be.
 

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in general for 1v1s (outside of tournament setting) it tends to stay thematic and be Rebels vs Empire, however in a tournament anything can fight anything - RvR and EvE is a common experience.
I seem to remember one night where me and @Logaan were chasing each others TIE's all over the board for what felt like a month! :laugh:
 

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Discussion Starter #38
X-wings and Z-95s have practically the same dial though. So there should be very little in "knowing" what they can/cannot do.
I was more referring to the A/B-Wing possibilities of adding to my lists every now and again. I have been running my ships as two Z's and two X's, mixing them up is a good idea.

Never.

expand what you can do with ANY ship/pilot, don't just pigeon hole yourself to become dependent upon R2-D2 and Wedge or whatever it may be
I like Wedge for fanboy reasons and his pilot ability, but am definitely moving away from R2D2. A Shield Upgrade is the same points, doesn't take up an Astromech slot, and doesn't affect the way I have to move my ship. I've played lots of matches using the pilots that don't have abilities while learning the game to keep it simple, but I'm also shooting last against a lot of shots in most of my matches (three PS8 pilots typically) and Wedge being PS9 usually helps me at least get one last round of potential damage out of him before something takes him out (@Tawa, I feel your evade dice pain buddy).
 

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Whenever I run Wedge, I run Biggs. No other way to do it in my opinion if you take Wedge he will be first priority and Biggs will keep him alive for that much longer here is what I like to run.


Wedge, R5K6, Fletch torpedoes, predator, shield upgrade

Biggs, R2F2, shield upgrade

Blount, assault missiles, veteran instincts, shield upgrade

100 pts

Biggs has saved Wedge for me so many times it's not funny. So with Biggs I just use his action for the extra agility making it 3. However I also like to keep my fighter range 2-3 so Biggs with 4 agility at 3 is nice. Veteran instincts will allow Blount to get his missiles off before a lot of ties.R2K6 will allow wedge to maintain target locks until whatever he shoots at is dead. Predator gives the reroll.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Thanks @forgefather, I'll definitely experiment with Biggs. He's been a popular suggestion!

Here's a list I like to call 'Shields on Full':

2x X-Wings
Wedge w. Predator, R5-P9, Shield Upgrade
Garven w. R2-D6, Veteran Instincts, Shield Upgrade


Z-95 Headhunter
Blount w. Assault Missiles, Veteran Instincts, Shield Upgrade

I figure Predator helps Wedge use Focus more often than Target Lock, and Veteran Instincts because I'm sick of dying before I shoot. Also, this list is 98 points in an attempt to also get Initiative. I'll definitely be swapping in other pilots to accompany Wedge as I go, and as the ship collection grows I'll be swapping in no-name pilots to garner more space for ships in my lists.
 
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