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Which could be the better system for WH40K?

  • d6 - Current system, very popular but also limited in scope

    Votes: 13 35.1%
  • d10 - Offers a larger scope of possibilities without losing the feel of the current game.

    Votes: 21 56.8%
  • d12, d20, d2 (flip a coin) or other - Please explain your opinions and ideas.

    Votes: 3 8.1%
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Discussion Starter #1
Think about it.

Think about how many 'unique' units share the same special rules, and more often the same stats.

When a game grows and expands, it seems to me that the 'stats' get cramped and 'special rules' start popping up in order to make each unit a bit more unique than the last dozen or so released. Would a system with a bit more wiggle room make for a better game? Would it be more easily balanced? Would it add or detract character/flavor from the game? Is it at all likely to occur?

What are your opinions?
 

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I think a d10 system would give you more options as you mentioned to expand the game as well as the units and special characters. However, GW is pushing for a younger crowd that can easily understand the game so they want to keep things as simple as possible. So I don't think we will see them go from d6 to a d10 system but it would be nice.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
LOL... with the majority of the world being brought up learning the metric system of measurements, why would anything based upon the magic number '6' be any easier than '10'?

In the states, well sure, but us US nuggets are a bit addled to start. We like the abuse.
 

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Right now dice rolls are used for

Roll offs
Power selection (demonhosts etc)
reserve rolls
leadership tests
causing hits and wounds

Rolls Offs:
For roll offs its just whoever is higher or lower so D6 or D10 doesn't make a difference.

Power selections
Some units like possessed or Ork psychers use tables to generate powers with a D10. Either you go with a range so 1-2 equals said power in which case why go with a D10 or have in this case 10 powers which makes the chance of getting a certain power more random, making the unit less useful and thus less likely to be used.

Reserve Rolls
Right now stuff like reserves and deep strikers come on on a 4+ on the second turn. Which means 50% chance to come on the table on the first chance. With a D10 that roll would start at 5 and go down (to have the same percentage). If you compare the rolls required on each turn the chance of having your unit come in is almost the same using either a D6 or a D10. Again in this case D10's don't really make a difference.

Leadership or Moral Tests
Average sum of 3 D10 is 11 which means almost everyone will be failing leaderships test on the current scale. Switching the scale to say 1 to 20 would seem like the best way to solve this with the average being 11. However, than someone with a perfect leadership would never fail a test unless there were modifiers where as now an 11 or twelve is a fail. So go with a range of 1 to 16 so there is always a chance to fail...that is an odd range and would be out of wack with the rest of the stats. Also leadership modifiers won't make much of a difference on the larger scale. The chance of failing a leadership test with a -2 modifier is smaller on a 1 to 20 scale than a 1 to 10 scale.

Causing Hits and Wounds

For ballistic skill a D10 would allow more diversity in the units although BS skill seems to be roughly race based. As BS is the average value of how well trained the soldiers of a specific army are. I think a specific BS value for an army with a +1 or -1 for heroes or special units covers the number of units in an army just fine.

I think this is where a D10 system would be work great as this is where it seems like there should be wider range of fighting skills and toughness between units and races. Sisters having the same WS or S or T as guard seem odd. Although getting the D10 system to somewhat match the hit table and wound table would be really hard.

In the end I think the system does a pretty good job with D6 system at the moment. Although a D10 system may be better in some places I think it would definitely change the entire system and 40k would need a complete overhaul and not sure if it would make it more characteristic. Plus getting it balanced would not be an easy task at all. Thus I don't see it happening.
 

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don't really know never played a d10 system before
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Keep in mind that we're not just taking about swapping the dice, but also reworking the stat system to match. Using d10's in a d6 structured game is pure nonsense.
 

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D 100 system :biggrin:

Seriously.. I think a D100 system would be a much more dynamic game than D6. It would be harder to "power game" I think.

I think it would also be easier to play with just 2 dice rather than having to scrounge up 50 or so D6 as well. Anything could be represented in the D100 system.
 

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Well definitely would have to increase the stats to something like 1 to 10 or 1 to 100.
 

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if the system ever changed, I doubt that games workshop would call the dice making people and say, "Hey guys, we changed the system for our game so we need you to change every kind of dice you have into 10 sided ones."

More than 70% of my dice are collected from old board games and dice I have laying around my room. The lack of 10-sided dice in other games means that a ten-sided dice system would cause people to spend tons of money just to get like 30 10-sided dice so their orks can use close-combat attacks.
 

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Think about it.

Think about how many 'unique' units share the same special rules, and more often the same stats.

When a game grows and expands, it seems to me that the 'stats' get cramped and 'special rules' start popping up in order to make each unit a bit more unique than the last dozen or so released. Would a system with a bit more wiggle room make for a better game? Would it be more easily balanced? Would it add or detract character/flavor from the game? Is it at all likely to occur?

What are your opinions?
I like the idea, but it will never happen.
 

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D6, but some units may require D12.
simply done using existing dice and easy to convert over.

lets us keep the d6 values but enables there to be 1/2 values if needed.
 

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Just a little detail that was bothering me... the average of 2d10 is 11. The average of 3d10 is 16.5

Since we've been yearning for the days of 40k yore, 2nd ed used different dice for different things, most notably the number of wounds a weapon inflicted on multi-wound models and armor penetration. So a power fist was something like AP 8 + D6 + D3 + D20, if I recall correctly.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Nah.... let's not try to make this too complicated. Imagine a system very similar to what we have now... but using d10's instead of d6's and with all of the stat's adjusted to fit. Ignore xd10 averages and such, as the stat adjustment would see to that.

Imagine... a Necron Warrior with different Str/To/Sv stats than a Space Marine. Both would still be hard models, but the differences between them would be more evident with a d10 stat system.
 

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I think assuming everything like points, special rules and stats were evened out to fit the new system I think it would be a better 40k game. That being said, make sure everything was fair and even would be a serious overhaul. Fleet would definitely have to be overhauled, haha 10 inch fleet move, or maybe everyone's movement would be 10 inches....
 

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This game is in serious need of a revamp to the stat and dice system tho.. whether it be D10 or D100 (2 D10) or even D 20.. It is needed. Im just tired of the same ole stats over and over again. T3, T4, T5, T7. Thats seriously what this game boils down to. Then we have the same armor saves... 2+, 3+, 4+.. anything else doesnt matter. Seriously .. .we need more diversity to keep the armies and this game in general interesting.
 

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I think that this would be a good idea for some aspects of the game (Str, Toughness, weapon strengths0, but if you completly switched from D6 to D10, some of the psycick (crap spelling, i know) tests would not work as well. if you have 12 different consequences with D6, you'd either have to add another 8 (2D10) or take 2 away (D10).
this woud kind of screw up some of the rules.

other than that, i like the idea of going to D10 :), but i dont think its a reality at the moment.
 

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It's not going to happen IMO, and the reason for that is that D10 just aren't stable. Once they come to a stop, they're fairly precariously balanced on one face, if someone nudges the table or something just a little, you'll get a whole bunch of dice flipping faces.

Now that's not much of a problem in DnD when all eyes are on the one or two D10s, but trying to keep track of thirty of them would be impossible.

D6 win my vote due to the stability of the cube.
 

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I vote D10s. They're just as stable as a D6, allow for more variation in stats, and more D10s means more incentive to play Storyteller systems!

And trust me on the stability issue. we've got a player who perpetually tries to fudge rolls in Mage, and it's really obvious when he tries it.

Dragonlover
 
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