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Discussion Starter #1
Leave it to the new CSM Codex to drag me out of 40k retirement... I know I'm limiting myself by using straight Berzerkers but I'm hoping that have 50 of them coming for you plus the rest of my army should be enough to cause some serious issues for my opponents. I realize shooting is really king right now, hence why I'm building a Thousand Sons army for an escalation league, but until then here's what I've got.

Kharn 160 points

Daemon Prince 255 Points
- Mark of Khorne, Wings, Power Armour, Axe of Blind Fury

Berzerkers (9) 253 Points
- Champion w/ Lightning Claw
- Berzerker (7)
- Berzerker w/ Icon of Wrath
- Rhino w/ Dirge Caster, Dozer Blade, Extra Armor

Berzerkers (10) 300 Points
- Champion w/ Lightning Claw, Melta Bombs, Veteran of the Long War
- Berzerker w/ Veteran of the Long War (8)
- Berzerker w/ Veteran of the Long War, Icon of Wrath
- Rhino w/ Dirge Caster, Dozer Blade, Extra Armor

Berzerkers (10) 300 Points
- Champion w/ Lightning Claw, Melta Bombs, Veteran of the Long War
- Berzerker w/ Veteran of the Long War (8)
- Berzerker w/ Veteran of the Long War, Icon of Wrath
- Rhino w/ Dirge Caster, Dozer Blade, Extra Armor

Berzerkers (10) 300 Points
- Champion w/ Lightning Claw, Melta Bombs, Veteran of the Long War
- Berzerker w/ Veteran of the Long War (8)
- Berzerker w/ Veteran of the Long War, Icon of Wrath
- Rhino w/ Dirge Caster, Dozer Blade, Extra Armor

Berzerkers (10) 290 Points
- Champion w/ Lightning Claw, Melta Bombs, Veteran of the Long War
- Berzerker w/ Veteran of the Long War (8)
- Berzerker w/ Veteran of the Long War, Icon of Wrath
- Rhino w/ Extra Armor

Heldrake 170 Points
- Hades Autocannon

Heldrake 170 Points
- Baleflamer

Chaos Bikers (10) 300 Points
- Chaos Biker Champion w/ Lightning Claw, Melta Bombs, Veteran of the Long War
- Chaos Biker w/ Meltagun, Veteran of the Long War (2)
- Chaos Biker w/ Icon of Wrath, Veteran of the Long War
- Chaos Biker w/ Veteran of the Long War (6)

2498/2500 Points

Let me know what you think!
 

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First You have to many pts dumped into rhinos I would lose all but the dirge casters. Savings of 65 pts.

VOTLW is not a worth wile investment unless your local meta is SM heavy i would drop it. Savings 59pts.

Bale flamer both drakes BS3 not that grand

Get swords rather than Lightning claws there the same price but your sacrificing an extra attack for re rolls to wound.

Give the DP the black mace as it is much nastier than the AX in a MCs hands.

And that is it how this helps.
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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I've heard a lot of back and forth about LC vs PW, so let's crunch the numbers, shall we? Assuming MEQ to be the standard opponent, let's start there.

Average Berzerker attack results with LC and PW against SM-equivalent stats.

Getting the assault, w/ Rage & Furious Charge:
PW - 5 attacks, (2/3 hit) 3.33 hits, (2/3 wound) 2.20 unsaved wounds
LC - 4 attacks, (2/3 hit) 2.67 hits, (8/9 wound) 2.37 unsaved wounds

Getting assaulted, w/ Counter-Attack:
PW - 4 attacks, (2/3 hit) 2.67 hits, (1/2 wound) 1.34 unsaved wounds.
LC - 3 attacks, (2/3 hit) 2 hits, (3/4 wound) 1.5 unsaved wounds.

Non-assault fight rounds:
PW - 3 attacks, (2/3 hit) 2 hits, (1/2 wound) 1 unsaved wound.
LC - 2 attacks, (2/3 hit) 1.33 hit, (3/4 wound) 1 unsaved wound (.9975 unsaved wounds, really, but I've been rounding to 2 significant digits this whole time--why stop now?).

Data Analysis:
- The advantage of a power sword against MEQ is that on a non-assault round, you inflict an average of .0025 more wounds.
- The advantage of a lightning claw is that when assaulting, you inflict an average of .17 more unsaved wounds and when assaulted inflict an average of .16 more unsaved wounds. Now, I would expect that the result in the second case should drop a little more than that for a whole attack less, so I suspect the rounding errors are large here. Nonetheless...

We may conclude that against MEQ opponents, the lightning claw performs reliably better.

Projections for Other Scenarios
Against low-Toughness armies wearing AP3 or higher armor, the rerolls are less likely to be triggered, and so we would expect the power sword to gain roughly parity or a slight edge. Against monstrous creatures and other high-Toughness creatures, we would expect the rerolls to be triggered for many more attacks, so the lightning claw would gain a large advantage.

TL;DR
Keep the lightning claw.
 

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Entropy Fetishist
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4,249 Posts
As for the list itself:

Apart from my disagreement about lightning claws, tinytim offers good advice.

- Dozer blades are so situational they're almost never worth buying, and this edition is much more forgiving on the vehicle damage table with regards to how often your vehicle is stunned. Dirge casters, however, are absolutely wonderful for saving your 'Zerkers' bacon.
- Berzerkers don't need VotLW--they are Fearless. Paying the points just for the Hatred (SM) is not, I feel, worth it.
- A MC's Smash ability gives the Black Mace AP2, counterbalancing the Mace's weakest aspect for the same amount of points as you'd pay to put it on a Lord at AP4. Meanwhile, with the AoBF, you're paying points for the AP2 you already have. Sure, you get to swap Rage for Blind and the like. I'd rather have an Aura of DOOM, thanks.

Yes, 50 Berzerkers is a lot, but at 2500 points, your opponent is going to have a lot to deal with them. Honestly, Berzerkers are sliiightly less effective than last edition (after the first round of combat, they're fearless, WS5 marines. Great...). Still, feel free to playtest the list some. What manages to hit the enemy line should tear some nice juicy holes in it, I'm sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Alright, so I started tweaking my list after the advice above and ran into a stumbling block. What do you do with 84 points? A small unit of Cultists? A naked Predator tank? Drop 1 Berzerker and take a Helbrute? I did consider dropping my 10 bikes for 2 Defilers with Havoc Launcher upgrades but there goes my fast assault unit with meltas. I could also take 3 Maulerfiends if I dropped the bikes. They're fast and eat armor (especially bastions). Any ideas?

The major armies around here are all MEQ. Grey Knights, Space Wolves, and Blood Angels being the most predominant. Thankfully little to no Necrons right now. I'm sure that's changing as I type this but I've yet to encounter any. And the odd smattering of Imperial Guard too I suppose.
 

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Alright, so I started tweaking my list after the advice above and ran into a stumbling block. What do you do with 84 points?
If you have less than 6 troops, then the answer is always cultists.
 
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