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Well That Was Unexpected
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey everyone, (say didn't there used to be a thread with a similar title about the Iron Warriors? ..... nonsense) anyway i've decided to throw my lot in with the Word Bearer's because the idea of an all silver army didn't appeal whereas a Red Army (hey what's that flag in his profile?) does, and generally the conversion ideas can be cool and the whole philosophy/fluff is better, meaning you can imagine a universe where the WB have taken over more than some of the other legions.

Anyway these army lists are to remain relatively fluffy, meaning Word Bearers themed so no lash or plague suggestions please, I'm also going to accompany my force with fluff stories and battle reports so what we come up with here will shape those stories. So the lists for the 20th Host is


1000pts Word Bearers (32 Models) (3 Vehicles) (994pts)



HQ

(Counts-as First Acolyte) Kharn the Betrayer 165pts

TROOPS

10 CSM, Champion, Powerfist, Combi-Flamer, IOCG, x2 Meltaguns, Rhino, 265pts

(Counts as WB Zealots) 9 Khorne Berzerkers, Rhino, EA, 239pts

FAST ATTACK

5 CSM Raptors, Champion, Powerfist, Plasma Pistol, IOCG, x2 Meltaguns, 185pts

HEAVY SUPPORT

CSM Vindicator, Daemonic Possession, 145pts


1500pts (43 Models) (4 Vehicles) (1500pts)

HQ

(Dark Apostle) Chaos Sorcerer, Wings, Wind of Chaos, Plasma Pistol, 165pts


ELITES

3 CSM Terminators, x3 Combi-Melta, x1 Chainfist, 120pts


TROOPS

10 CSM, Champion, Powerfist, Combi-Flamer, IOCG, x2 Meltaguns, Rhino, 265pts

(Champion as First Acolyte) 10 Khorne Berzerkers, Skull Champion, Powerfist, x2 Plasma Pistols, Rhino, EA, 330pts

10 Lesser Daemons, 130pts


FAST ATTACK

(Champion as Coryphaeus) 5 CSM Raptors, Champion, Powerfist, IOCG, x2 Meltaguns, 170pts


HEAVY SUPPORT

CSM Vindicator, Daemonic Possession, 145pts

5 CSM Havocs, x2 Missile Launchers, Rhino, Havoc Launcher, 175pts


So what does everyone think, from a competitive and fluff perspective?
 

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from a fluff perspective i like these.

competativly? your have plasma pistols on champs, mixed weapons in single squads instead of focused battle field roles, and frankly? the 3rd rhino has extra armour instead of another Havoc launcher.
 

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Ok, I'm gonna talk to you about the 1,500 point list;

I don't think you have enough Heavy Support... Your Vindicator will be target #1 and will get taken down easily!

I think if i was famous for 2 things around this site; 1 Would be love of the Blood God; The other is my hatred for raptors... I think you could spend 170pts much more effectively; Either on More Terminators or More Heavy Support
But i'm not familiar with Word Bearers, So if they're a key unit for Word Bearers ignore this. But i'm definitely one for dropping the Raptors and adding in another Vindicator- Or using the points to add something else to the Heavy Supports - Because from a competitive angle- Your Lacking in Heavy Support; and you'll get punished for that!

I like your Troop Set up with the Daemons- And i can only assume they'll be bloodletter models.. I mean why would you want to take anything else :laugh:
I think the Terminators need to be dedicated; So deep-strike them in (You many want to work in some PIs for this), and declare combi-melta and attempt to get your points back out of them- Otherwise you may be better off with 5 Infiltrating Melta-Chosen.

hope this helps.

:wild:
 

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Well That Was Unexpected
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ok folks, re-edited the 1000pts list, what do we all think of this one?
 

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Ahh, the bloodletters make it awesome.

I havn't ever played a single game of 1000 point, so i can't help, I'll hit you back when your doing the 1,500!

Good warring :) :wild:
 

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Halloween Town
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My first concern is your lord! Cf is quite risky! Maybe LC or take a dw as a counts as dark croxius (is that what they are called meh memory fails me) and refer to him as a dark apostle much better!
Your heavy bolter in the squad seems a waste, i haven.t had much success at mixing heavy with special!
Your lone vindie seems a bit alone but at a thousand points you should be good! When you go to the next stage def consider a second one!
Fluff wise I like it alot!
 

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Well That Was Unexpected
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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Het Jondoe297, thanks for the advice, the problem I'm having at this 1000 point level is the commander in general. I don't want a daemon prince, so I'm thinking that, My Dark Apostle will be called Barbatos who has black wings and is a Word Bearers sorcerer, My Coryphaus is Valek who is a Terminator, whom I would love to give a daemon weapon, but its hard at this point and because I'll likely be deepstriking him. Plus I want to write fluff on all this so...

Therefore I can have at 1000pts either

HQ

(Dark Apostle Eligos, in my sig :) )Chaos Sorcerer, Wings, Wind of Chaos, Plasma Pistol, Personal Icon, 170pts


FAST ATTACK

5 CSM Raptors, IOCG, x2 Meltaguns 130pts

or

HQ

(Valak in my sig! :) )Chaos Lord, Termintor Armour, Combi-Melta, Daemon Weapon, 160pts

ELITES

3 CSM Terminators, x3 Combi-Plasmas, PF, CF, IOCG, 140pts


Both are 300pts, which do you all think is better? Or if you have any other suggestions it would be greate to hear them. At this point level I would love to just add the sorcerer or lord to a CSM squad but you lose your double weapon bonus if you want them in a rhino which I do. So any ideas?
 

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I'd definitely take the Termies! Loath Raptors... and love termies.. Therefore ... Termies :3

I can't help thinking it's missing something though..

Oh yeah.. IoK

:laugh:
 

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Halloween Town
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so I had another look at your list and I reckon take the sorcerer but drop the plasma pistol, maybe drop the PI, obv its there for the ld's but you have 3 icons already that should be enough! I would drop the havoc launcher and HB from one of the squads then try and squeeze in another PG and an ac with a pw (although if you kept the PI on the socerer and dropped the raptors icon you could get a second pf instead of pw)
just a few thoughts!
Oh the reason I think raptors over termies is because of the termies static nature! Raptors can react to situations better infact it maybe worth sticking a pair of lc on a champ in the raptor squad rather than the second nilla squad! Would be a nice little combat unit!
 

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Well That Was Unexpected
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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Right gone back to the drawing board and come up with this, at 1000pts I decided to remove the random stuff as I think it detracts from the strength of this list. There is currently alot of bells and whistles on this new list i.e. EA, Plasma pistols etc, thats because I was left with a weird number such as 85pts so I decided to jazz everything up a little. So here's the new list, what do we think? (BTW The comments so far have been really helpful thanks)


1000pts Word Bearers (26 Models) (3 Vehicles) (1000pts)

HQ
(Dark Apostle Eligos) Chaos Sorcerer, Wind of Chaos, Wings, Plasma Pistol, 165pts


TROOPS

10 CSM, Champion, Powerfist, Combi-Flamer, IOCG, x2 Meltaguns, Rhino, Extra Armour, 280pts

10 CSM, IOCG, x2 Plasma Gun, Rhino, Havoc Launcher, 240pts


FAST ATTACK

(Champion is my Coryphaus Valak) 5 CSM Raptors, Champion, Pair of Lightning Claws, IOCG, x2 Meltaguns, 170pts


HEAVY SUPPORT

Vindicator, Daemonic Possession, 145pts
 

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Can I not even tempt you in the slightest to go with another Heavy Support- Instead of those Raptors? :laugh:

Otherwise looks solid- Just be wary of your Vindi being Public Enemy #1 - But you should be ok at 1,000 points.

Onto 1,500? :laugh:

ROT out. :drinks:
 

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Well That Was Unexpected
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sorry ROT but I don't think so, the reason I need the raptors is so I can place my Sorcerer in a unit that is mobile and can still keep both is special weapons. Plus what I think I've decided to do is convert the Saginary Guard into his personal chaos bodyguard unit and use a converted Astorath the Grim for my Dark Apostle Eligos, (I know its not technically the place, but does anyone have any thoughts on this idea?)

Next I think I am going to use this time to have a brief rant......what a terrible codex. I have been looking at this thing page by page for over an hour and my God (or Gods rather) it is baaaad. For my 1000pts list, a Sorcerer, with 5 Raptors, kitted out decently is a minimum of around 300pts or just under a third of my force for six models that aren't that great. Sure it can take out a horde or a vehicle and hopefully a MC but those aren't 300pts. It is very tough to be competitive with this codex as it is, and I've added the burden of relative fluffyness. I'm beginning to think the reason all those Daemon Primarchs ar refusing to bother about the material realm is because they have better rules in their Great Game in the Warp.

Anyway, rant over, I think I am going to need all the help I can get with this one folks so all comments are going to be really appreciated. Thanks.
 

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Halloween Town
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I had a thought prob best when you move onto 1500 points, possessed seem quite fluffy concerning WB's but they are pretty tame (too put it mildly) so how about (bear with me as you mentioned once before about not liking counts as but I think this maybe good) kit bashing possessed with normal csm's for a squad of 9 or 10 convert a champion up maybe using a chaplin base, give him like a censor burner (i think there is one in the DA vetran kit plus their hooded robes would fit a WB theme dotted around!) call them Zealots and use the zerkers states! Volia an awesome cc squad whilst remaining (i think) fluffy!
Your list I like apart from plasma pistol on the sorcerer ( just not a fan of them personnally) but you may have had some success and all the extra bits on the first squad could go onto the second in the shape of a champ with a pw or pf!
other than that I like!
I have mentioned already vindie is a bit lonesome (like ROT said) but at 1000 points you should be ok! When you increase your points get a 2nd or drop!
For lorgar!
 

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Well That Was Unexpected
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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
You know what johndoe297 ......... I like that idea, and I like it alot. I am not great with counts-as but what has sold me on that idea is how you described the conversion possibilties.

Right I think this whole thing is starting to come together a little bit. Also, just want to say that I like the plasma pistol on the sorcerer because I think it goes well with the range of a squad, is good vs Rhinos, Chimeras etc and an extra wound off a MC, and I like him having good equipment, but I will drop it if I need the points elsewhere.

So the question now is, what should I replace in order to get this squad? I'm thinking of replacing the more CC orientated squad with the Zealots (Berzerkers) and keep the second squad as a more long range support. Or, should I run two CC squads and run a very in your face style army. I'm thinking two CC squads could be stronger, as lets face it we are not a gunline army. What do we all think?

Final thought as my Dark Apostle is nicknamed 'The scourge of Lorgar' two CC units with the odd flamer about the place is very in keeping with that great WB quote from the codex "Cast down the idols! Destroy the temples! Skay the priests! Show these fools that they worship nothing but a corpse!"

(Also while we are now talking about conversions what do you all think of using the Blood Angels, Sanguinary Guard and Astorath the Grim, for those Raptors and HQ?)
 

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I myself contemplated the sanguinary guard as raptors (but then I picked up an old school squad of raptors, happy days) so needless to say I think they're a good shout! Astorath the grim has definite potential as well!
I would also agree with your cc army! but that is because my play style is all about getting in there so I would suggest dropping your plasma squad for the 'Zealot' unit, obv a rhino with EA (or DP to be more fluffy but its not really needed)
When you move to 1500 points I think you should look at getting another vindie, and some LD's maybe even consider a GD!?
 

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Well That Was Unexpected
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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Right, now we are cooking with gas, here's an updated army list for 1000pts its a little messy but I will make it clearer when I get some feedback, so now we have


Word Bearers 1000pts (25 Models) (3 Vehicles) (Lord 959pts ... Kharn 974pts)

HQ

(First Acolyte, Barbatos, ‘The Hammer of Hepellon IV”)

Either

Chaos Lord, MOK, Powerfist, Plasma Pistol, 140pts

Or

(Converted Counts-as) Kharn the Betrayer 165pts


TROOPS

10 CSM, Champion, Powerfist, Combi-Flamer, IOCG, x2 Meltaguns, Rhino, 265pts

9 Khorne Berzerkers, EA 239pts


FAST ATTACK

(Champion is Coryphaeus Valak) 5 CSM Raptors, Champion, Twin-Linked Lightning Claws, IOCG, x2 Meltaguns, 170pts


HEAVY SUPPORT

CSM Vindicator, Daemonic Possession, 145pts


Now, the only questions that I feel are remaining to get the 1000pts list sorted are, which HQ to choose? I love how with Khorne Berzerkers I can add my HQ as their champion at this level, so Kharn or MOK Lord? I gotta be honest I have a major soft spot for Kharn, not because of his fluff, but he fulfils all my requirements, Plasma to open Vehicles / wound MC, Powerfist equivelent because he always hits on 2+ and has extra D6 vs Vehicles. So I'm thinking of converting him, as maybe a Dark Angel Interogator Chaplian Asmodai and imagining his 'always hits' rule as his extreme Zealotry.

Also what do you all think of keeping the Raptors, I personally like the idea, because they are small and can hug cover as they move up and they aren't as big a threat as either the vindicator of the Berzerkers but can still threaten lots of things despite their size. Finally no matter what I choose I have a few points left, as noted at the top depending on HQ choice.
 

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Halloween Town
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If you use kharn as a counts as (which I would advocate over the khorne lord!) I reckon maybe a weapon fluff swap, Blame it on the accursed crozius, defintely base it on a chaplain model I like the sound of it alot!
with out the sorcerer I feel the raptors have lost their worth a little bit! Although they are stiil good tank/heavy support hunters, be it melta shots or in CC with the LC's
I would also suggest dropping the combi flamer and equipping a SC with a PW, on the charge thats 12 pw attacks followed by 36 s5 attacks! Obliteration!
 

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Well That Was Unexpected
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Right, I re-edited my first post to include the finalised 1000pts list (barring any minor suggestions). I chose not to include a Skull champion, because I felt that squad was already expensive enough and I wanted to make the Raptors more viable, I'm terrified of MC, or Vehicles, so they are going to be an elite unit that hunt things like that or static targets like Devastator Squads, Baslisks, Broadsides etc. So what is everyones thoughts?

I'll begin work on my 1500pts list and post it in a while.
 

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I don't understand your unwillingness to field a Daemon Prince; VERY fluff for Word Bearers (especially if you don't give it a mark) and has better points to stats than the generic Lord or Sorcerer. I dislike Raptors when, for less points, you could get a Defiler (totally in fluff), another daemon possessed Vindicator (still in fluff), or 2 Obliterators (less fluffy than the other two choices, but probably more versatile overall.) Don't get me wrong, I don't mind Raptors, but I actually prefer the above three choices or Chosen in a Rhino over Raptors. More survivable and can field 2 extra special weapons if you have the points.
 
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