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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Lords:

Spellweaver - 295pts
- wych wand of elm
- divination orb

Highborn - 257pts (ARMY GENERAL)
- rhymer's harp
- annoyance of netlings
- shield
- light armour
- great weapon

Heroes:

Branchwraith - 115pts
- lamentation of despairs
- cluster of radiants

Noble - 131pts
- hail of doom arrow
- gambler's armour
- shield
- additional hand weapon

Core:

18 Glade Guard - 222pts
- musician

18 Glade Guard - 222pts
- musician

38 Eternal Guard - 536pts
-full command
- faoghir the banner of dwindling

19 Dryads - 228pts

Special:

5 Warhawks - 200pts

Rare:

Treeman - 285pts

Total: 2491pts

The Noble and Higborn will go into the Eternal Guard ranks making them a core choice and giving them that extra survivability, with the Highborn there to give a 5+ Ward Save to the entire unit and also accept challenges where needed as he will be hit on 6's, this will give me a unit of 40 to go either 5 wide and 8 deep or reform and go 10 wide 4 deep. They will also keep Stubborn no matter how many models they loose due to the Higborn and noble being in the unit with them

The Branchwraith will go with the Dryads for that extra punch.

My only worry with this list is the Noble and Highborn being to lightly armoured, should I drop the hail of doom change the Highborn purely for combat and build the noble for challenges. By this the Highborn would take the gamblers armour, rhymer's harp and enchanted shield giving him a 3+ save 5+ save and then give him a great weapon or additional hand weapon and the the noble takes the annoynace of netlings with other gear?
Share your thoughts
 

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Lords:

Spellweaver - 295pts
- wych wand of elm
- divination orb
thats 2 arcane items... unfortunately you'll have to drop the divination orb. I often end up throwing the hail of doom on my spellweaver and firing it <15" for the 3+ to hit; its not ideal but I normally just cant fit it on nobles/highborns
- what lore are you using... it has to be on the army list now. I suggest Life, but beasts is decent too (for the love of all thats holy dont take athel loren :p)


Highborn - 257pts (ARMY GENERAL)
- rhymer's harp
- annoyance of netlings
- shield
- light armour
- great weapon
you dont want the highborn in challenges at all; I would swap it for either the Calach's claw (you want to be hitting basic troopers, not characters anyway) or a resplendance of luminescence (just in case you get some ethereal tarpits heading your way).

Heroes:

Branchwraith - 115pts
- lamentation of despairs
- cluster of radiants
fine, Im not a fan of the despairs but I understand their use. I normally use the netlings instead but they are already in use (stupid no-repeat sprites)

Noble - 131pts
- hail of doom arrow
- gambler's armour
- shield
- additional hand weapon
gambler's armour is actually doing pretty much nothing on this model: in combat you'll already have a 6++ from the parry (sword and shield). This guy should be a BSB- they are massively important in 8th- reroll to any panic test, fear test, brake test... or even magical 'take LD and die' type tests. I would then set him up to be a challenge monkey: my personal choice would be annoyance, potion of T and dragonbane gem... although I would want to try to get the ironcurse icon on the unit as well... and the terrifying mask of EEE! would be incredibly useful (enemies with WS1, who wouldnt want that- plus you never ever take a fear test).

Core:

18 Glade Guard - 222pts
- musician

18 Glade Guard - 222pts
- musician

38 Eternal Guard - 536pts
-full command
- faoghir the banner of dwindling

19 Dryads - 228pts
all fine, I might split the GGs up more or alternately make a bigger unit with Aech (something that Im thinking about playtesting).

Special:

5 Warhawks - 200pts
never used them, I dont think their rules look all that good but I guess you will have used them before and will know better then me. I use glade riders for this purpose.

Rare:

Treeman - 285pts
cant go wrong with a treeman
Total: 2491pts

The Noble and Higborn will go into the Eternal Guard ranks making them a core choice and giving them that extra survivability, with the Highborn there to give a 5+ Ward Save to the entire unit and also accept challenges where needed as he will be hit on 6's, this will give me a unit of 40 to go either 5 wide and 8 deep or reform and go 10 wide 4 deep. They will also keep Stubborn no matter how many models they loose due to the Higborn and noble being in the unit with them

The Branchwraith will go with the Dryads for that extra punch.

My only worry with this list is the Noble and Highborn being to lightly armoured, should I drop the hail of doom change the Highborn purely for combat and build the noble for challenges. By this the Highborn would take the gamblers armour, rhymer's harp and enchanted shield giving him a 3+ save 5+ save and then give him a great weapon or additional hand weapon and the the noble takes the annoynace of netlings with other gear?
Share your thoughts
Its a decent list but with some major flaws- what happens if the enemy brings a dragon, a big block of temple guard/warriors of chaos or brett/empire knights (about the only heavy cav that will have multiple ranks). A machine gun highborn (bow of loren+arcane bodkin) and waywatchers would help... though not much. My WE army cannot deal with those threats either but my army doesnt have the 'solid' core that yours does... and as such im mobile enough to try to avoid the worst the enemy can throw at me... I just cant see how a WE army manages to put out enough damage to deal with those sorts of threats without using big blocks of treekin... which I wont do since my other main army is ogres (and Im not going to just resort to the same tactics or what's the point in having a 2nd army).
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'll be using lore of life of course, i agree athel loren has really only 2 spells now worth something - hidden path and tree singing and one of those I can get by a Treeman.

I'll look over the list, I'll probabaly end up putting the hail of doom on the spellweaver then.

My reason for the glade guard is to have 2 ranks firing and moving and I don't like the idea of having to pay for more than 2 musicians and waste points there on a unit that once hit dies. Although I could just do small units of 10 I find they don't kill enough and so am experimenting with larger units of GG.


Yeah Warhawks I find work for me well and I dont have the models for treeking yet so they may come later.

I'll also have a look over my lords, thanks!
 

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LOL, we certainly have different styles- Ithought that tree singing and hidden path were 2 of the most useless spells in athel loren. The only spells I would take the lore for are ariel's and call of the hunt.

Im not intending my block of GGs to die- they can walk to about 12-13" away to make sure everyone is in close range and fire a huge number of S4 shots- then the enemy has the choice of a risky charge (with stand and shoot) or marching close and being shot normally.... if they do fail a charge I'll get stand & shoot, normal shooting and stand & shoot again (plus I could move a few inches backwards to hope they fail again.
Once combat is reached I hope the enemy will be so weakened by the shooting so either lose to the GG or simply not be strong enough to beat them (like not having the ranks)... but since my spellweaver will be taking life stone to flesh and shield of thorns will hopefully be on the unit (its the 'target' unit: the only big block I have, drawing the enemy to it, so all my buffs/defenses will be centred on it.
I might weaken it a little and give some scouts to the spellweaver as ablative wounds... just so I can have her floating around near the unit without worrying too much about magic missiles/shooting.... but then my army is pretty much all fast cav and skirmishers (and oh how the new skirmisher rules annoy me with my dryads- I just keep them ranked up rather then constantly breaking them up and putting them back again).
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yeah after facing many Dwarf gun lines and Empire cannon armies, hidden path becomes very useful in protecting warhawks before they attack the cannons or warmachines and helps wildriders get that nice smashing full flank charge
 

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One thing you could try if you were going to build your army around eternal guard is the Lore of Beasts, use the signature spell to give +1 strength and +1 toughness
meaning they are WS 5/str 4/T 4/I 5/A 2
With a 5+ save and 5+ ward from rhymers harp they can take and give a lot of punishment
Also noteworthy is the Lore of Athel Loren to give 4+ regen (Ariel's Blessing) and +1 attack (The Call of the Hunt)
 

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I would actually suggest your GG to go to 20. 18 shots from 18/2 ranks, 15 shots from 20/4 ranks. And you can spread to 10/2 if you need the extra shots. With armies having light cav mobility, I think WE might be weak right now. Unless you use Forests of Mystery, then being Striders comes into it's own.
 

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Yeah after facing many Dwarf gun lines and Empire cannon armies, hidden path becomes very useful in protecting warhawks before they attack the cannons or warmachines and helps wildriders get that nice smashing full flank charge
I normally use multiple units of glade riders and waywatchers to fill similar roles... and since I dont have the single unit being able to protect 1 from the warmachines isnt as helpful as it would be for your army. But call of the hunt would be cool, especially with glade riders/wild riders: because they are fast cav they are vanguards, so get a 12" move before the game (ala 40k scouts) . They cant charge if you have first turn because of the standard rules... but if you cast call of the hunt on them they'll have the chance to hit the enemy regardless. 12" vanguard, 18" march and then 2D6" 'nudge' should get you into any war machine you can think of... I may well take athel loren just to try that if I ever get the unit of 15 wild riders that Im thinking of getting (when Im rich...).
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Lords:

Spellweaver - 300pts
- wych wand of elm
- hail of doom arrow

Highborn - 257pts (ARMY GENERAL)
- rhymer's harp
- helm of the hunt
- dragonbane gem
- shield
- light armour
- additional hand weapon

Heroes:

Branchwraith - 115pts
- annoyance of netlings
- cluster of radiants

Noble - 130pts
- BSB
- gambler's armour
- biting blade
- seed of rebirth

Core:

18 Glade Guard - 222pts
- musician

18 Glade Guard - 222pts
- musician

34 Eternal Guard - 488pts
-full command
- faoghir the banner of dwindling

20 Dryads - 240pts

5 Glade Riders - 120pts

Special:

3 Warhawks - 120pts

Rare:

Treeman - 285pts

Total: 2499pts

NEW REVISED LIST - Please tell me what you think.
 

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Well the highborn has 105pts of magical items (you cant take th echeap enchanted shield from the rulebook- if an item exists in your army book's common magical item section then you must you the rules from teh rulebook but the cost from the army book). Then again that makes no difference at all since the shield is doing nothing at all for him (unless you want him standing alone- shooting and magic will give you the +2 save, but not for combat)) since he must use that great weapon in combat (you can never choose to use a hand weapon if you have any other weapon at all... so no shield and no parry if you take the great weapon).

Similarly the noble has got 60ts of magical equipment, so you'll have to cut things off him. Personally I would just give him the silvered armour and either the ironcurse icon or dragonbane gem (2 of my favoriate of the new items). That gives you a 2+ armour save (should be plenty against most standard infantry.. and you dont want to be fighting combat hero/lords- even if you have to step out of the eternal guard to ensure you survive (and give them their re-rolls for all Ld) and the bonus items either give a 2++ vs flaming fo that you can laugh if anyone brings something like a bloodthirster your way or a 6++ for everyone in the unit vs warmachines, handy since every stonethrower in the enemy army will be targetted at your eternal guard.

Other then that there arent too many things I would alter- I would put a champ in the dryads (even at the cost of a dryad) since they get no benefit for ranks numbers are only important in order to keep as many models in the fight as possible. So unless you are going to start 10 wide or take some serious casualities then a champ would be better then an extra dryad (and you have no worries about challenges, since your branchwraith is in the unit). I also like the costs of 252 for a unit of 20 dryads and a branchnymph... just makes things nice and easy to work with (drycha 2k army... I need 500pts of dryads, wonder how many units that is :p).
Other things I would play with- I would give the glade riders a musician unless they are always going to be in range of your highborn (personally mine are almost always using feigned flight to annoy my opponents).
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
From what I've been told the new items replace the common porfile and cost, where is this info your getting that I must pay 10pts for the Enchanted Shield coming from, I would like to know as I didn't see it anywhere???

Also changed Highborn to have additional hand weapon

Glade riders are cannon fodder they may be replaced if I don't like them with 3 more warhawks

The Iron Curse item is useless to me a 6+ ward VS warmachines - Rhymer's harp gives the whole unit and him a 5+ ward for everything better than 6+ for only just warmachines, Dragonbane gem yes it gives 2+ ward vs flamming attacks but it's a 2 wound model and yes there are alot of flame weapons fue to certain new banners but again I see it as a waste if it's for just one man who is not flammable.
 

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Most of the FAQs have something like:

(from HE FAQ) Page 99 – Common Magic Items.
Note that if a magic item is listed in both an army book and the
Warhammer rulebook, use the points value given in the army
book, with the rule printed in the Warhammer rulebook.

.. and in fact its in the rulebook too: first paragraph of P500. So its still only the ogres who get the 5pt enchanted shield (which is weird since it isnt listed in their common items section because they could never take shields in 7th).


Yeah sorry about ironcurse/rhymers.. I forgot you had it. I'll alter that to- if you dont have the rhymers then the ironcurse is awesome :p
The dragonbane gem is immense for 5pts. Sure it only protects 1 model from the unit, which normally is pretty much useless: if you charge over a fire fence or get hit by some of the lore of metal/fire spells that can hit characters it might save a wound or two off your BSB which would be helpful... but mostly its a cheap addition to fill up the last few points in an army/magical pts allocation which can protect against some really hard characters. If your unit gets charged by a bloodthirster with the firestorm blade (pretty standard) you can challenge him with the noble and laugh when he does 0-1 wounds (could do more... but really shouldnt), then you have +5SCR which should make the BT go pop. Additionally I think we'll see quite a few units with the flaiming banner in 8th (counters regen units and cause fear in cav/beasts- reason Im thinking of taking rageth's flaming blades every game: 1 model in a unit with those means that all enemy cav units in b2b need a fear test vs being WS1 against the whole unit)... and the dragonbane gives someone who can then take on champions/heros/lords in that unit with little chance of dying.


With my glade riders I normally deploy most of my army one 1 flank and 3 units of 5 GR on the other. The GR then either just run away and leave the enemy opposite them facing nothing, but more often they march forward and round the enemy, doing lots of feigned flights and threatening to charge exposed flanks (funniest one I managed was to kill a whole unit of 20 beastigor in 7th with a flank charge). The threat of them getting flank/rear charges now isnt as much as it was before, but tis still good to threaten it on anything that doesnt have 3 ranks: eg unit of 5 GR charges the flank of a unit with +2 rank bonus and get hit by 3 atatcks, taking 1-2 wounds. Meaning 2-3 kills form the GRs attacks makes it a draw (or a win if you took 1 of those rank bonuses)... but with 10 attacks from the 5 GR thats not too hard to get... so a bit of luck sees you winning, and since all I want is for them to survive in combat for a few turns thats fine (and if I do run people rarely pursue- it'll take them the wrong way and out of the game for the next 2-3 turns).
Their best use is against frenzied units. Same as before they can try to lure the frenzied charge (force enough Ld tests and everyone will fail some) but then additionally if the feenzied unit does just ignore you and try to get past to the rest of your army you can flank charge and hope to have 1 model survive... because then either you hold and tie them up for a turn, or better, you break and force the frenzied unit to pursue you (and with the change to frenzy a lot more people near me are taking frenzy units... especially on cav).
- I dont know if those sort of tactics will work with just the 1 unit. I usually lose one and a half of my units to suicidal tactics that dont work and/or lesser shooting attacks (such as throwing axes or poison javalins- most opponents decide its not really worth shooting the GR with units of archers/war machines).


EDIT- as for the AHW on the highborn... Im not sure if AHW are special weapons or not, I think they are as the rules for weapons are written additional/two hand weapons... but you may have people try to claim that you cant choose to use the shield. I think they are wrong, but its not so odd a claim (although something interesting is that you cant have AHW if mounted now).
 

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@Blue Liger

I like the list but you need to add more standards to your army otherwise you auto-lose the scenario 'Blood and Glory'(pg148 of the rulebook).

The breaking point is rounded up so yours is 3. Your fortitude is 2 from the general and 1 from the standard in the eternal guard.


  • Breaking point: 3
    Fortitude: 3

A army immediately breaks when its fortitude is equal to or less than its breaking point.
 

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Yeah, WEs are going to have trouble with that one... I hadnt realised that it was equal or less then for the breaking point though, so its even worse then I thought.

With the noble BSB you'll ahve enough banners not to instantly break in a blood or glory game, but if you lose a character from the eternal guard unit you've lost... but then you know that protecting that unit is the only objective in the game (ok, a secondary one if winning, but I kinda doubt that'll be the primary goal if you rolled blood or glory).
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I've editied the noble and highborn, I meant the seed of rebirth on the noble and instinctively wrote the stone of rebirth!
 
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