[Rogue-Badger]

It is general knowledge at this poin that the Necron Codex needs an update. However things didn't get this unfair for Necrons overnight, at some point Phase Out and other assorted Necron problems, were valid rules (, I just don't see GW shipping something broken out the door).
So what went wrong?

 

[KingOfCheese]

Gauss weaponry dude.

 

[KhainiteAssassin]

well the general problems are thus fold for necrons:

they are not a CC type of army, CC got much better in 5th

Necrons relied on glancing hits to take out tanks most times in 4th, Glancing hits took a hit.

Necrons have always been an "easy to play, hard to master" kind of army, where they are, by far, easy to figure out, but once you start facing skilled players they become very unreliable with their lack of any real choice, especially since they, by far, have the least choices out of all the armies if im not mistaken.

1 Valid non SC HQ
3 Elite choices, only one semi Valid
only 1 troop choice
3 fast attack choices, all with their uses
3 heavy support choices, all have their uses

so if you count the 2 SC aswell, you have 11 useful unit types. 14 unit types overall.

plus the fact that theres 0 customization to your units outside of the single non SC HQ.

 

[DeathKlokk]

Because most Necron players don't know how to play them in this edition.

Necrons in the hands of a good player are very scary. We have one in our area that is a real tough opponent every game. Which is saying something because my area/club has some very heavy hitters in the tourney scene.

 

[Unforgiven302]

To this day I would hate to go against a 3 monolith army. People sometimes cry "cheese" when they see three of them, but what else do they have that is as good, or
"5th ed feasible" as 3 monoliths on the hunt?

The gauss weapons not being able to hose down vehicles really did hurt the crons. Before, they didn't need a heavy weapons team or the like to make every tank commander think twice before getting too close to a large unit of them. Now, those tanks are virtually safe, well maybe a little stunned or shaken, but by taking extra armor or the like on your vehicles negates the gauss threat to them and you can roll right through them.

I am waiting for a new dex because I have always wanted to have a necron army. Hell, I bought the old dex just for reading material and because I like them!

 

[darklove]

[sad face] Necrons need some love from GW.

 

[aboytervigon]

look there now doing De so necrons aren't far behind

 

[Tim/Steve]

My necrons are still undefeated... they can be a truly evil army: I only started them to prove to the local players who thought they were an auto-lose army that they were still viable and now they cant work out how to beat them (mostly they've either only played really bad necron players or just havent seen them).

The major reasons that necrons are seen as weak are that glancing has been nerfed and sweeping advance/combat Ld has been altered. In 4th you could shoot any gauss weapons at a tank and destroy it (and not care if it has smoke or not), now you'll likely shake/stunn it and smoke/cover stops the damage entirely, making it much haredr to kill vehicles. Combat didnt used to be such a problem for necrons, but now as soon as they start losing a few models they'll run away and get sweeping advanced to death.

Then again the necron book is old... and so the gradual powering up of all the armies has left them behind a little (with a lot more AP3 weapons around now then there used to be).... but then things like the Deceiver are still stupidly powerful and great fun to use (although mine has now been cut- he's getting a reputation for stomping all over people's armies).

 

[Styro-J]

Its gotten to where I hardly shoot at Necrons any more... Just spamming Tank Shocks with Holo-Field/Spirit Stone Falcons seems to do the trick. Sure they are Ld 10 but it just takes one bad check to get a large unit of Warriors running off the board. With a small CC squad inside I almost feel bad for them...

They do have some pretty nifty tricks though, if the General runs them well enough.

 

[darklove]

Eldar can be troublesome for Necrons, but not because of Tank Shock. The fact that Eldar can stay out of range of Necrons, and ignore any armour or cover saves is the really bad bit. Dark Reapers are so evil.

 

[OddJob]

Because most Necron players don't know how to play them in this edition.

Necrons in the hands of a good player are very scary. We have one in our area that is a real tough opponent every game. Which is saying something because my area/club has some very heavy hitters in the tourney scene.

Feel free to enlighten us as to what he's doing as I just don't see necrons as remotely scary.

Issue 1: Rubbish troops
You have to spend at least 360pts on walking bods that aren't very killy. As these are your only means of scoring you'll probably have to get more. Despite the appearances of being nails they go down very quickly in cc (sweeping advance anyone).

Issue 2: The C'tan
Because of issue one you are almost forced to take the Deceiver- a 300pt model that is massively vulnerable to certain opponents (sternguard, poisoned little bugs, IG/SW shooting).

Issue 3: Multiple Liths
Decent enough in their way but ubiquous cover saves make their killing output rather subpar when compared to more recent dexs. Lots of dexs have a pretty hard counter (in my case T-fexs and zoans).

Issue 4: Phase Out
The obvious biggy- when you have to buy the other toys to make the basic army work phase out bites you massively in the ass.

So what am I not seeing? What is it that makes necrons remotely competative?

 

[Tim/Steve]

Feel free to enlighten us as to what he's doing as I just don't see necrons as remotely scary.

Issue 1: Rubbish troops
You have to spend at least 360pts on walking bods that aren't very killy. As these are your only means of scoring you'll probably have to get more. Despite the appearances of being nails they go down very quickly in cc (sweeping advance anyone).
Its keeping them out of combat thats the tricky bit. I don't think of my warriors as offensive in the slightest- its very very hard to reach them (its onyl been done once, and that was from a LRC.

Issue 2: The C'tan
Because of issue one you are almost forced to take the Deceiver- a 300pt model that is massively vulnerable to certain opponents (sternguard, poisoned little bugs, IG/SW shooting).
Dont have to take them, but the deceiver is sick if you do. He does suffer against armies with poison... but there is always ways of dealing with that... not least leaving him in reserve or just redeploying him away from danger. If the enemy can't deal with him he is fantastic, if they can then you need to be a decent player to get the most from him.

Issue 3: Multiple Liths
Decent enough in their way but ubiquous cover saves make their killing output rather subpar when compared to more recent dexs. Lots of dexs have a pretty hard counter (in my case T-fexs and zoans).
Dont like liths, dont use them, dont own any... They are good at distracting the enemy, blocking objectives and keeping your army alive, I might rate their offensiveness as the 4th or 5th most important thing they do, but its not one of the main ones. Because I run an offensively minded force the style of play a lith pushes you towards doesnt really suit me.

Issue 4: Phase Out
The obvious biggy- when you have to buy the other toys to make the basic army work phase out bites you massively in the ass.
This is pretty much Issue 1 again. I protect my troops and so I've never once yet hit a phase out, but then to hit phase out I'll probably have lost all my offensive power and will be seeing the last strands of my troops beginning to fade away anyway. I've won a handful of games under those sorts of circumstances and drawn a few more... but by that stage its normally game over anyway (especially if its early in a game).
Phase out might sound scary but its really just forcing you to throw in the towel when you should be considering it anyway (especially if its on turns 1-4).

So what am I not seeing? What is it that makes necrons remotely competative?

Necrons can take a huge amount of undirected fire and have the mobility to really get on your nerves. By undirected fire I mean where a player is just using firepower as a sledgehammer and trying to batter the enemy to death... rather then a scalpel trying to take them apart. 6 units of 20 guardsmen in close range (120men inside 12", dubious really) might all get first rank fire second rank fire off at my unit of 20 warriors, which could kill all of them. But if you didnt take out their support (like a spyder sitting right behind them) then they'll get all my WBB and could put them through a portal... suddenly all that firepower might only have killed about 5 warriors, meanwhile the cron player is laughing his ass off (if you got a tiny bit unlucky and only killed 19 then that unit would still exist as well.

Necrons will never be a dominant army with the current rules, but they are by no means uncompetetive.. they just need a clever player behind them not to fall into some of the common pitfalls.

 

[I_bring_chaos95]

the way i see it the necrons are a good army for those who have been playing for a while they are not for noobs to the game,that said even someone who has been playing for years may lose allot playing necron we are all at the mearcy of the dice lol
fear the necrons all the same

 

[Stormbrow II]

Necrons have very little variety compared to the newer books. There are multiple builds available to Guard, Wolves and BA for example, while a Necron host has to be composed of minimum 20 warriors, who are basically overcosted as a hangover from 4th ed.

Some of their remaining units are sub-optimal: their combat troops aren't great at combat and their HQ's are expensive for what they do.

They won't be so bland in their book that's out next year though.

 

[The Boz]

Here's hoping for Phase Two!

 

[darklove]

Hang over from 3rd ed. actually.

The advantaged of the Necrons are the sheer mobility of the forces. So many units that move like Jetbikes, and have S6+ 36" guns. Very powerful.

15 Destroyers and a Monolith at 1.5k is really nice. There are some really strong builds, if you are the sort of player that spends a lot of time seriously contemplating the codex (which is not the case for most players of 40k in general).

 

[clever handle]

Don't put too much stock in the "it's too hard to kill vehicles!" camp - EVERY shot ANY necron unleashes can potentially glance a landraider.

If my chaos marines got up on a 4+ and could use their bolters to glance a raider I'd be in heaven. As it is, I need to upgrade to at least a rocket launcher at the cost of 20 points to be able to glance AV14 (or 11 for that matter...) and now I have a heavy weapon that I can't move and fire.

Necrons are a weak army because their only troop MUST foot slog (unless you have a 'lith to teleport...) meaning they are vulnerable to being shot as they march to hold objectives (but frankly - they have a 50% chance to get back up from everything that is <S8 unless you completely wipe out the unit...).

AND because they are initiative 2, they WILL lose combat against any dedicated assault unit and then chances are they will break from combat & yes, be ran down. BUT to be fair, this I believe still functions to balance their army out. Turns one and two a necron player should be able to glance enough transports into at least an immobilized state and force those nasty assault troopers to also foot-slog and now the necrons should be at an advantage (haven't lost points on transports) since any wounds taken while the two forces saunter across the board can potentially be regenerated. This is where wraiths shine. With S6, NORMAL initiative and a 3++ they should be able to hold even TH/SS terminators at bay for a round or two of combat.

The biggest problem Necrons face is (again, in my opinion almost a FEATURE of the race) their lack of options. Frankly, we as players can bemoan only having one troops choice with no upgrades available to them - BUT then if you want choice, customization and character, maybe an army of unrelenting, soulless autonomons is not the army for you...

... am I alone in appreciating the irony?

 

[gally912]

- BUT then if you want choice, customization and character, maybe an army of unrelenting, soulless autonomons is not the army for you...

... am I alone in appreciating the irony?

I actually appriciate the lack of options in the Necron codex, in a strange sort of way.

I would be disappointed if the new codex turned out something like IG/'Nids

 

[Doelago]

I would be disappointed if the new codex turned out something like IG/'Nids

So would I... Like totally...

Midnight!

 

[Tim/Steve]

I like the number of infantry/jetbike units in the necron dex, but I would like a secondary type of building- something to add more mobility and character (like static 'catacombs' mebbe being able to buy a pair of extra portals through which units could enter play, or hide in).
The relatively few options for the army is prefect for what thy are- an automatom army shouldnt have the same sort of variety as a human/xeno army. BUt having said that I would move flayed ones to troops: in all the books flayed ones are described as scouts or ambushers... they aren't an elite force like any in the other codexes (elites tend to be heavy hitting infantry)... it also works thought wise too: you have the standard necron with a gun and the standard necron with blades.