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I don't understand why people hate flyers so much, they claim 40K is no place for flyers, and that they have ruined the game, can some one explain it to me? I see them as just another unit that once all the codexs are updated wont have that big of an advantage.
 

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I personally enjoy flyers in the game. It adds a new dimension to the game, and some of the models look great. Some of them seem overpowered, but once more armies have decent anti air capability it will be fine.
 

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Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
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Some of them seem overpowered, but once more armies have decent anti air capability it will be fine.
I think this is issue, not every army has got them yet and even some armies that have got flyers still don't have a decent anti-flyer that isn't a flyer itself if you know what I mean.
 

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I personally enjoy flyers in the game. It adds a new dimension to the game, and some of the models look great. Some of them seem overpowered, but once more armies have decent anti air capability it will be fine.
Exactly this. New fliers and anti-air are trickling in, and the balance is starting to level out.

I personally dont like them however, and its not from a power level standpoint. I have a Raven and Talon and dont even use them. I like boots on the ground, not relying on something to come in at the right moment, and then doing slight turns hoping to line it up with targets. My BS5 Tank Hunting TDA Marshall with CML x2 Command Squad is more than enough to deal with fliers :)
 

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Several reasons.

1. BS doesn't matter. BS2 is just as good at hitting flyers as BS9. That means that previously effective units (Devs) are now less good compared to things like Lootas or IG HWTs. This unbalances the game in favour of low-BS high-volume firepower, especially when twin linked because in most books such firepower was balanced against each other. For example, completely hypothetically, a BS4 Missile Launcher was worth 20pts, and a BS2 Missile Launcher was worth 10pts. Against Flyers, you're far better taking two BS2 Launchers and getting double the shots.

2. They can often mean that there is only one or two units on the table that can effectively engage them - leaving the rest of the army in the cold if there is nothing but Flyers on the table. For example, if I have 10 Lootaz and 60 Boyz, 2 Trukks, a Battlewagon with some Nobz in it, and a unit of Killa Kanz, and I play against someone with almost his whole army in Flyers, I only have one unit that can actually have a meaningful effect on the game. This is boring and not-fun for me. It also means he only has to kill that one unit in order to fly around completely uncontested.

3. It reduces army choice. Because Flyers are such a powerful force, you MUST take them into account when writing a competitive army list. To do this, you MUST take at least one, if not more, of the following options:

A. A Quad Gun
B. Your own Flyer with anti-Flyer capable weapons
C. Your own ground unit with effective anti-flyer capability

For reasons best known to themselves, GW has yet to really print any unit that fits into catagory C in a new codex. The three most dominant flyers are AV12, AV12 and AV11. GW seems to think that single-shot S7 weapons are a good answer to that. Such a good answer, in fact, that they want you to pay 10pts per missile launcher in order to gain access to it. Hence we have the extremely laughable Flakk-Walker from the Eldar codex which clocks in at about 100pts for two S7 shots on an AV10 Open Topped 2HP platform.

When a Heldrake costs 170pts. Uh-huh.

Realistically this means that every single army has a Quad Gun, and probably their own flyers as well. Which is boring.

4. Finally, some of them are just damn overpowered for their points. I'd call Scythes, Drakes and Vendettas such. Different reasons for each one, but mainly the firepower they put out, the movement speed they have, and their survivability means every army that has access to them, should probably take them in spades. And overpowered units are never popular.
 

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Herald of The Warp
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blahblahblahblah
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I just think fliers are boring and look stupid (who the fuck has ever seen a fighter flying 6" off a battlefiled making 90 degree turns on the spot?) and turn players into massive cock headed retards

"OHMAHGERD FLIERS!!!!!, I NEED FLEYERS, DO YOU HAZ FLIRS, OHMAHGERD YOU NO HAZ FLYIRS YOU SUCK, EVERYONE SOOK YOU MUST HAVE FLIYIRERS YOU NOOOOOOOOOOB!!!!!!!!!"

And the amount of bitching flier heavy players do when you tell them "no you cannot fly into that cave stop being dumb"
"OHMAGERD YOU SOOOO STIPUD, FLIVVER GO CAVE ZOOM ZOOMS"
 

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... can some one explain it to me?
Reading through the thread, no I don't see any rational reason for any of the hate, beyond an inability to adapt and wait for the update cycle to be complete and everyone brought up to speed.

If you don't want to wait for the update then I suggest looking to Forgeworld which have flyers and anti-flyers in abundance.
 

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blahblahblahblah
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Yeah FW is a very viable solution "hey I just got my £90 afterVATandP+P hydra in the post, awesome......oh...the cheap PVC resin barrels are warped into more knots than my pubic hair...fuck"
 

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Of course WANTING to find a solution is a pretty important first step.
 

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I get the feeling that Stella doesn't like flyers :grin:

To be fair I was not too keen on them when they were first introduced, but since I get to use dakka jets in my ork army I find them pretty funny to use. A few times they have wiped out squads of eldar during a waagh.
 

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Some good reasons for not liking flyers have been posted. I think I'll reserve judgement until the various factions have caught up when it comes to effective anti air, but I do think it's an interesting point that BS is taken out of the equation when trying to shoot down a flyer without skyfire. Maybe a -2 penalty to BS would have made more sense, since that would mean BS4 has a better chance to hit that BS2 and 3. Space Marines hitting a flyer on a 5+ doesn't seem so bad when the flyer is (presumably) flying low over then battlefield to shoot things

I just want a balanced game where specific units aren't way more effective than others, and there's no such thing as auto include units beyond basic troops
 

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blahblahblahblah
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I get the feeling that Stella doesn't like flyers :grin:
Damn straight, and I fucking despise these high horse high and mighty holier than though players who sit on their saddle just blaming YOU, the player who refuses to adapt, the whiner, the moaner "oh you can just do this, oh you can just do that, oh you can just wait for this, oh you can spend money on that"
FUCK...THAT...SHIT.

why should I have to spend MY money to counter fliers?, the issue I have with fliers is that they make no sense, GW has handled fliers poorly, the rules are dumb for them and make no sense, ok hovering fliers I can live with, they hover, cool, but WTF is up with these stupid fighters and bombers that fly around like they are playing Snake on the phone?, it looks silly and ruins the look and feel of the game.

Other rule systems handle fliers like a piece of piss, they come on, do a strafe/bomb run, then leave, giving you the chance to shoot them (which I believe were pretty much the old flier rules from FW).

Fliers are dumb, I don't want to hear this bullshit about being butthurt, or this bullshit about not adapting, fliers do not work how fliers work, it looks dumb and only appeals to the children.
 

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I just think fliers are boring and look stupid (who the fuck has ever seen a fighter flying 6" off a battlefiled making 90 degree turns on the spot?) and turn players into massive cock headed retards
While I agree with that last statement (the one about people being dick heads) wholeheartedly, some of the fliers aren't really fighters. The Imperial Guard Fliers, the Vendetta and Valkyrie, are VTOL aircraft, so they could fly in place and make sharp turns. Same goes with the Space Marine Storm Talon and (maybe) the Helchicken. Now, the Eldar, Tau, Ork, Necron, and the other Space Marine fliers look like they actually are planes and shouldn't really do that.

I like the idea of fliers, they add something to the game, just like random psychic powers, warlord traits and battlefield conditions/terrain. Hopefully other races get AA units or abilities (similar to the Imperial Guard's Hydra) to help them at some point, just to make things fair.
 

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I just love the extra dimension fliers brings to the game. I'll be getting a pair to each my armies as soon time and money is at hand. For now enemy fliers are a fat pain in the ass cause I have no viable mean of taking them down atleast not AV11+.
 

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I like the idea of flyers but I don't think they are any good unless it has AV 12, at which point they become tough as hell because of the lack of volume str8+ AA. I find that av11 just gets intercepted far too easily, even with a quad gun you will more than likely only have a hull point left by the time you get to shoot if that. I find the movement of flyers restrictive as well, the dakka jet is a good flyer if it could turn more, but after the first turn or two it's one the board it starts having to go off the board, where it can be intercepted again. The reason the hell drake is so good is that it never has to evade and has 360 fire, the others are generally too restricted or weak to do anything meaningful consistently
 
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