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Discussion Starter #1
Would it throw the Forces of Chaos into...well, erm...chaos? Who would rise to take his place?

Also, why doesn't one of the Daemon Primarchs depose Abbadon and take his place? Are they too busy doing their daemonic sh*t? Would they rather settle on Abbadon rather than fight each other for leadership?
 

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The Emperor Protects
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Kharn, Lucius, Typhus, Ahriman, Huron and others would all gather together on a neutral world to decide who among them would lead the forces of Chaos next as their mortal champion. Many insults are traded, accusations of past failures are made over Abbadons armless body. Kharn challenges any of them to a duel, Lucius suggests they all audition for the film adaptation of the popular Heresy era erotic novel "Fifty shades of 'Oh my fucking god what the actual fuck is happening!?'" With the champion winning the lead role also becoming Warmaster. But as Typhus steps forward, they all suddenly realise it isn't Typhus at all, but actually the Planet Killer, already under control of somebody else along with the rest of Abbadons forces.

Furiously they all look at each other with confusion and suspicion, before it dawns on them. With a rare singular and shared thought, they all look to the sky and scream out...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
If Abbaddon fails again? Mind you he has 13 Black Crusades on his belt. 13 bad losses.
Fall not fail

Kharn, Lucius, Typhus, Ahriman, Huron and others would all gather together on a neutral world to decide who among them would lead the forces of Chaos next as their mortal champion.
I really can't see the old guard traitors submitting to Huron

Huron would probably try and make alliances with the legions if abaddon dies
Huron is a big fish in a small pond. There are arguable hundreds if not thousands of Chaos lords of similar power. I mean, how much clout does he have right now really? His little empire was broken. He just has a sizeable Chaos fleet at his disposal.

He's a minor Chaos lord who gets mentioned a lot in the fluff
 

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If Abbaddon fails again? Mind you he has 13 Black Crusades on his belt. 13 bad losses.
Think you could elaborate on how all of his previous black crusades have been failures? Especially considering the fact that he achieved his goals during no less than three of them (because each crusade is not an attempt to outright dethrone the Emperor.)


There would be no new warmaster if the Despoiler ever fell. Abbadon is the only mortal (a term I use loosely) to achieve favour from all four chaos gods and unite the various traitor legions for a single cause since Horus himself. Abbadon leads a legion of his own creation, one which threw off many of the shackled that were the bad blood with other legions (bad blood which many legions still have with one another.)

None of the other great chaos marine champions have the ties, favour, or charisma of the Despoiler. Some, like Erebus, Kor Pheron, Kharn, Typhus, and Huron are great in some respects but not all of them, which is what makes Abbadon the threat that he is.
 
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IRONBORN
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Think you could elaborate on how all of his previous black crusades have been failures? Especially considering the fact that he achieved his goals during no less than three of them (because each crusade is not an attempt to outright dethrone the Emperor.)


There would be no new warmaster if the Despoiler ever fell. Abbadon is the only mortal (a term I use loosely) to achieve favour from all four chaos gods and unite the various traitor legions for a single cause since Horus himself. Abbadon leads a legion of his own creation, one which threw off many of the shackled that were the bad blood with other legions (bad blood which many legions still have with one another.)

None of the other great chaos marine champions have the ties, favour, or charisma of the Despoiler. Some, like Erebus, Kor Pheron, Kharn, Typhus, and Huron are great in some respects but not all of them, which is what makes Abbadon the threat that he is.
This. (Especially about 'Failbaddon and the 13 fail crusades' meme).

The Black crusade would just fall apart without Abaddon. I cannot see anyone ever replacing him or at least not in the near future or with any of the current chaos characters.
 

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Cruel Commissar
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Of course, Abbaddon must be the best logistical mind of all times, I mean half his time he is using to settle arguments between four sides that really doesn't like eachother. It's like getting fanatical Muslims, Nazis, fanatical Jews and fanatical other people to cooperate. Of course this is just an example, but it shows how hard the job of Abbaddon is. I also never take it too seriously when a person says Abaaddon is Failabbaddon the Armless. That's just humor not a serious opinion, as the IOM sic everything they have at him once he rears his ugly head.
 

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So..would that be a 'no I cannot elaborate on how all of Abbadon's black crusades were failures' or are you just trying to avoid the question?
 

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They were all failures, though not all can be lopped at him.
WHAT???

How were they all failures?

13th aim was to get a foothold on cadia, which they did
1st one killed a loyalist primarch
One secured his magical sword etc etc
The Eye has expanded hugely

Don't think of chaos as a linear black white idea of all we want is to invade terra. That is not their goal. If any thing I imagine Abbadon will want to create a second imperium rather than rushing to terra. He knows he can't just rush to terra, he needs to get out of the eye and start the grind and thats what he is doing
 

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Cruel Commissar
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Which Primarch was killed? Getting trinkets counts as victory? Gaining a foothold only to be blasted away by the Imperial Navy, and I don't think Abbaddon can do anything about the Eye of Terror expanding as last I checked he had negligible psychic prowess.
 

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They were all failures, though not all can be lopped at him.
They weren't. CotE is probably rolling in his bed/office chair/whatever the hell he's doing at the moment.

Which Primarch was killed?
It's not specifically stated, but all the data points at Dorn dying in the first Black Crusade.

Getting trinkets counts as victory?
When said "trinket" is the objective of the Black Crusade...then, yes.

Drach'nyen is hardly a trinket. Nor is a Blackstone fortress.

Gaining a foothold only to be blasted away by the Imperial Navy
Things still look very ugly. And ultimately taking Cadia isn't even the objective. He just needs to cause enough havoc to tear open the Cadian Gate, anyway.
 

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1st crusade killed Dorn, gained sword
2nd Failed
3rd Abaddon wasn't involved in
4th bit meh captured a planet
5th Abaddon not involved with
6th ???
7th lots of fighting and death - no notable gain
8th ??
9th Destroyed naval fortresses defending system
10th not really a crusade just several battles
11th ??
12th crusade abbadon acquired 2 blackstone fortresses - mixed victory he wanted 4
13th crusade foothold is still intact - The imperial navy never blasted him away. He lost a lot of ships but they likely float back to they eye as all debris does. The ships can be repaired re-crewed and sent out again in the future

The expanding eye is due to the fluctuations of chaos powers which occurs during the crusades, chaos is at a peak and once a planet is swallowed its never returned. This is due to the huge gathering of chaos power generally orchestrated by abbaddon.

Abbadon is not 13 times the loser. He has a near impossible task, but he is making gains. Wait is time for a near immortal?
 

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Cruel Commissar
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He has launched 13 Black Crusades Barnster. Hehe, though it sounds fun that he manages to be in absentia in some.

I mean Abbaddon ain't the only person going on Black Crusades and he haven't copyrighted them like Disney have copyrighted Disney. I now envision Abbaddon hiring an army and suing Doombreed for taking it's name. Hehe quite a vision that Abbaddon and Doombreed in suit and tie in a courtroom.

Also Rogal Dorn stopped a Black Crusade by sacrifising himself, but it wasn't Abbaddon's Black Crusade.
 

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The expanding eye is due to the fluctuations of chaos powers which occurs during the crusades, chaos is at a peak and once a planet is swallowed its never returned.
Haven't the zombie art collectors (Necrons) whacked a couple of anti-psychic phallic towers on there that stop the eye getting too lary?
 

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He has launched 13 Black Crusades Barnster.

Hehe, though it sounds fun that he manages to be in absentia in some.
Actually no, while there have been black crusades led by others, the numbered ones have all been led by Abbadon (even though there are some with no information on them at this time.)

Also Rogal Dorn stopped a Black Crusade by sacrifising himself, but it wasn't Abbaddon's Black Crusade.
Thats debatable as we do not know which black crusade he died in, and whether or not he even died in one (because of the canon conflict regarding when he was lost to the Imperium.)


Getting trinkets counts as victory?
When those 'trinkets' include his daemon sword, the eye of night, hand of darkness, and blackstone fortresses, I'd say yes. And while his aim in the 12th crusade was to acquire all six fortresses, two was plenty and three would have been more than enough.

Why? Because three blackstone fortresses had the power to make a sun supernova and destroy an entire system; two had the power to destroy a planet.

Gaining a foothold only to be blasted away by the Imperial Navy,
Gaining a foothold on one of the most heavily defended worlds, bar terra, and ensuring that the Imperium has to spend an ungodly amount of resources (even for them) to completely remove a now entrenched chaos hold.

You seem to like to believe the matter is so cut and dry but its not. Every time the Imperium would have lost ground on Cadia (and lets face it, they did) thats a strong-point or heavily defended locale now in the hands of the enemy. Its locations designed to be nigh impossible to take, and in the case of the Imperium retake.


Once again, and getting to be rather unsurprising, your opinion-as-fact mentality is quite wrong/misinformed.
 

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Wow Darkreaver, just wow. Well that's your opinion, I refuse to voice mine about you.

I was poking fun at the idea that Abbaddon manages to lead in absentia, it's a wild theory not reality though it's a fun thought which I cracked a joke about with the lawsuit of Abbaddon suing Doombreed. I'm not blind for fluff, as I already mentioned, every time Abbaddon rears his ugly head they sic everything they have at him.

I was maybe a bit informal about calling the nice things Abbaddon got trinkets, but it almost seems like a really longwinded computer-game with him picking up gear like I could do in Baldur's Gate and still he never gets any closer to getting to Terra despite winning symbolic victories.

And I'm pretty much convinced Cadia is the second-best defended planet in the entire Galaxy. And I also uses knowledge about what fighting in ruins does to an army, that will just bring it down, just look at Stalingrad, that's my view of Cadia.

If anything was speculation on my part it was Dorn sacrificing himself to stop a Black Crusade, but that to my surprise you didn't protest too much about.
 
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