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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, what would be better for a gun line army?

A captain w/relic blade and SS
command squad w/apothacary, 4 plasma guns and las/plas razorback

or

Terminator Librarian w/Gate of Infinity and avenger
6 terminators w/assault cannon

they are about the same points, but which choice is better?
 

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I would take the Captain and Command Squad, though he would be a Marshal and I wouldn't have a choice as the Black Templars don't trust Psykers. I would still take the Captain and Command Squad for a normal SM Chapter anyway due to the apothecary and the heavier fire-power.
 

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Depends on how to use them.... both have advantages... I would be more inclined to use the Terminator Libby with friends because it gives you the option to DS them into your opponent's backfield....

The key to either is to make sure they have enough firesupport that if they get zapped by a Demolisher round, you're not SOL from a tactical perspective.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
This is the army that it will be used with.

10 man Tactical w/PW, combi-flamer, Melta, RL, and Razorback w/assault cannons and extra armor

10 man Tactical w/PW, combi-flamer, Melta, RL, and Razorback w/assault cannons and extra armor

7 Sniper Scouts w/Telion, cloaks, RL

Thunderfire Cannon

Pred w/Auto turret, LC spnsons

Pred w/Auto turret, LC spnsons

Dreadnought w/RL, Auto-cannon

Dreadnought w/RL, Auto-cannon
 

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I believe that Dreadnought Autocannon cost the same as an Assault Cannon (i don't have the codex on me so i may be wrong). Personally i would use an Assault Cannon as there is more chance to kill tough, high armour units with it due to rending. If you have the autos in there for higher strength i wouldn't both because you have enough already with the lascannons meltas and rockets the army may be a bit small but that is irrelevant. I would use the Captain but consider dropping the command for a third tactical squad.
 

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I'd go for the librarian + termies, but make the termies TH/SS. Shooty termies are crap, since they get you one heavy weapon, and in exchange you lose the 3++ which means your termies will die to anything with AP 2 or with power weapons. TH/SS termies, on the other hand, are scary as fuck.

for ideas on how to use TH/SS termies on shooty armies, look at Kirby's Thunderbubble articles (starting with this one

hope it helps,

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Clearly you have some reason to dislike normal termies but it is obvious to me that you have not seen the luck some people, my damnable brother included, have with their invulns. Often he saves all but one of four or five saves which proves very annoying when using guard
 

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With the assault cannon razorbacks you're going to have to close with your opponent ( at least within 24")

I could envision the senario where you push your razorbacks up, then drop in the Termies and just muck up the center of the board... Ie, take the fight to your opponent and keep a solid block of guys on your on land...

By the same token, I could see the same with the Command Squad... but I think Termies would be more fun...

@Hunter909 -
Autocannon - Pens Rhinos on a 5-6, 2 TL Shots
Assault Cannon - Pens Rhinos on a 6, 4 shots not TL
It's a matter of penning light armor.. which is what it's there for and does better than the Assault Cannon... AV 13 is for melta and mass ML fire....

Also, more shooty is always better in Marine lists... I would consider going to Las Plas for your razorbacks instead of Assault Cannons... They're cool but struggle to bring down 1. higher AV 2. your opponent's rock unit.
 

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I would use the libby but replace the avenger power with vortex of doom. range is not a problem when jumping around by teleportation.
 

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@hunter909: The reason why I dislike shooty termies is as I said, they trade in their 3++ on the whole squad just to have one guy with a heavy weapon. Termies are CC machines, and the marine codex has a ton of better, more efficient places to carry heavy weapons. I'm afraid luck doesn't count into it, you will obviously remember the times your brother has made his 5+ saves, but think about it this way - for every two shooty marines you kill with AP 2 or power weapons, you'd be killing only one TH/SS termie. And that difference is not worth one heavy weapon and a bunch of storm bolters

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you do have the option to mount your whole cptn + command on bikes with those plasma or even melta, as the mobility will make that more viable, and scare up some trouble on your opponents brined flank steak. you could.. corn beef the mofo.. ha ha ha ...

...sorry, bad chef joke, i'll go take a time out.


oh and ps. vortex of doom is way to risky, fun, but i'd never run it in a tournament.
 

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Clearly you have some reason to dislike normal termies but it is obvious to me that you have not seen the luck some people, my damnable brother included, have with their invulns. Often he saves all but one of four or five saves which proves very annoying when using guard
Clearly your brother has some insane luck and should give an army with weaker saves a try because of it. You are twice as likely to make a ++3 save over a ++5 one and thats simply because fail rolls are only half as much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Ok, im ganna run with the assault termies and libby. But what would you suggest for powers then? And should I make him an epistolary?
 

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No because deep striking assault termies is bad. Best way is to use a LR. Costly though.
Gate of Infinity is for pulling Assault Termies out of cc. Not for DS!

And yes, for that purpose it is worthwhile. Conditionally better than Avenger. For example, you find your termies gummed up with a large blob of cheap infantry: not the sort of thing they want to fight because if they're forced to make enough saves their single wound will become their achilles heel, or perhaps it just ties them up when you need them elsewhere. Gate of Infinity lets you exit that fight and run (away).

@CLT40k ofc you can run to spread out :)
 
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