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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,
I am currently in the process of building a chaso marines army and was woundering which of the 4 cult marines you would choose and why?
Berzerkers
1k Sons
Plague Marines
Noise Marines

To get things started my favourites so far are the plague marines, T5 and FNP, thats awesome for a troops choice especially against other troops. Seem to hold their own in CC too.

So what do you choose Heresy??
 

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this is a matter of taste ...
i love the noise marines models

normally i play against chaos players who either use combined nurgle/noise
or complete korne ...

so i have to say go for noise marines to bolter MC down
 

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It depends partially on what type of list your building, but each cult troop has a role to play:

Khorne Berzerkers fill the role of crazy CC specialists. Charge a unit of 10 at something, and watch in awe as the attacks mount up. S5 I5 on the charge is definantly something to have on your side.

Plague Marines are the unit everyone loves, and whats not to love about them? T5 and a 3+ armour save combined with feel no pain ensures that unless someone REALLY wonts them dead, they will survive mostly intact for the game. They also excell in CC, mainly because of the T5 and FNP, but also because they can dish out some hurt, they are marines after all. They also can put the hurt on during the shooting phase, with the ability to take 2 special weapons.

Thousand Sons are the designated marine killers, and for good reason. A squad of 10 puts out 20 S4 AP3 shots a turn, plus the Sorcerer gets his psychic power. Thats gonna put the hurt on anything with a 3+ armour save. TSons arnt the unit to get into CC, cause they will get stuck and the only method of reliable killing is the Sorcerer with his force weapon.

Noise Marines are somewhat unique IMO because they have the ability to dish out some serious punishment during both the shooting phase AND the assault phase. Being able to shoot 18 S4 AP5 shots, plus the Champ's Doom Siren being a S5 AP3 flamer template will cause some people a few problems. In CC, they will strike first against marines, and the champ can take either a power weapon or fist.

It really depends on what role you want your cult troops to fill

Hope this helps :victory:
 

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in my army i tend to take 2 8 man squads of zerkers, and 2 5 man squads of PM's in rhinos, as a mobile fire base with 2 plasma, plus being in a rhino, there good for grabing an oblective and holding it, if i take T-sons, then i tend to use them to hold an objective on my side of the table, which makes it damm hard for the opponent to take it
 

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Berzerkers are a favorite of mine, and really just a good choice all around. Plague Marines are fantastic for holding objectives and are quite popular on the competetive scene

Thousand Sons are good killers of most things but they NEED Rhinos to achieve their full potential. They also tend to be expensive what with 60 point sorcerers mandatory and they have to take a psychic power. They have good survivability (4+ invulnerable save, anyone?), but don't let them get caught in close combat. 'Tis a shame the Sorcerer's FW is put to waste...

Noise Marines are interesting blokes, and a personal favorite of mine. They have the ability to dish out serious amounts of firepower . In my opinion, they're better at a range than in CC, even with I5, but an AP 3 flamer ain't a bad thing to have on the assault and can be used as assault troops in a pinch. Berzerkers reall do fill the combat niche better, though.
 

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I'm a sons players so a thousand son squad for me. But as dawnstar has every one has a use, their effectivness of course varies with the list you take and the army your facing.

Plague marines may be tough but if they get caught in cc they can dissolve fairly rapidly to most units due to their low I value and small squad size. Berserkers are great in assualt but are useless at any range and struggle against evasive armies and against force where you don't assualt first. imo emperors children are stupidly overpriced when compared to a generic csm sqaud with IoS. Sons own at range, their force weapon can snipe characters, and they are tough due to their save but are expensive for basic troopers and can be overwelmed by large armies like nids and orks
 

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If I am running a hard hitting fast moving army I run Berzerkers in Rhino's. If I'm playing a stationary fire base or foot slogger list I use plague marines. And if I want a cheap 5 man cult unit I take Noise marines with PS, and Doom siren.

More or less it breaks down like this.
-Plague marines: More expensive less CC effective marines, who can take some real nice ranged special weapons. (Great for holding objectives, and weathering light anti-infantry fire)

-Thousand Sons: Very poor at CC, although they have a random chance in every CC of instant killing multi-wound model. They almost make up for this with the ability to crank out 20 ap3 ranged attacks at 12"s, and can hold their own against the regular marine killers like howling banshees ext do to their 4+ inv save. Still they are very expensive fore a unit that will crumble under mass anti infantry fire weapons or dedicated CC units. Still if you want to take them then throw them in a rhino, and do a drive by on enemy MeQ units. Oh they also are the most expensive cult troop.

Berzerkers: The absolute best CC unit in the troops slot. They come with 1 more A, and WS then all the other options, and are 1+ higher I and S then a basic marine if they get the charge. Still they are no more survivable then a regular marine, but are the cheapest cult marine next to naked noise marines.

Noise marines: Their whole thing is cranking out more medium, and short ranged assault ranged anti-infantry attacks then all other CSM's. Still at 10 points more then a regular marine your better of just buying more marines then buying noise marines for ranged support. One of the best uses for these cult troops is in small units with a champion baring a Doom Siren, and power sword in a rhino. since it gives them 3 I-5 PW attacks, and a AP3 flamer. Also the Blastmaster is overpriced for what it does and will only really help if your going with the less cost effective static ranged support build.

In other words the most effective take all comers choices are Berzekers, and Plague marines. Probably why you see them so much more then the other two choices.
 

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I like Plague Marines. They look cool and can take a nice selection of weapons so you can tool them for what you want to do, and their robust nature lets them last long enough to actually accomplish those tasks. They aren't a charging unit. They prefer to plod forward and rapid fire the hell out of things (plasma guns- gets hot doesn't really affect them with FNP) then let the enemy charge them with no bonus attacks thanks to blight grenades.

Berzerkers are relatively cheap and totally kick-ass at what they are supposed to do- letting blood flow!

Noise marines aren't afraid of assault, and with sonic blasters are a nice mobile anti-infantry unit, moving 6" and firing 24". Their weapons upgrades can get pricey.

1k sons are great MEQ killers but that power will cost you points wise. They don't need to find cover with their 4+ inv, and can fire 24" while moving (albeit slow and purposefully)

The interaction between the different types is where it's at.

Rapid fire a unit with PM, let Zerkers charge them and the enemy unit will be toast.

Keep noise marines behind 1k sons for counter charging and to gain a cover save, and you will have firepower to take on all comers while on the move.

PM and 1k sons will benefit the most from having lesser daemons. After shooting something let the warp turds assault them and be on your merry way next turn, or stand and laugh until they kill your daemons, then rapid fire the survivors. Keep in mind you want them to kill the enemy or be killed during your opponents turn so unit size will have to be considered.

Despite warring amongst eachother, the flavours of chaos work quite well together.
 

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My personal favpurites are the Thousand Sons. The Aspiring Sorcerer offers some nice customization, and AP3 Bolters are much fun. Slow and purposeful is not great, but moving and firing 24" is excellent if you want them to keep opponents off your objectives. Don't get into CC with them, though. Their Invuln saves will keep them intact against some beefier opponents, but they can't really hurt back. As a desperate move, I suppose they could be used to tie a big guy up, theoretically, but they are pricy meatshields.

Noise Marines are nice, with decent ranged Assault weapons, and the Init doesn't hurt any.

Khorne Berzerkers are fun, excellent CC guys, and I've seen them best a Daemon Prince and Gene Stealers. Use with a Rhino, almost definitely.

Plague Marines are a Favourite among many, and they are tough. They mostly do Basic CSM things, but better, and for a cost.
 

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I personly dislike useing a limeted section, but if I had to chose I would get the plague marines. with all the high toughness models they have the opponent will have a hard time deciding what to fire the big guns at.
 

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I believe you can not look at things in a way like this. All cult troops serve their purpose, heck, all units in every codex serve a purpose if you create them one. There is no ultimately best or worst of the cult troops. There is only roles you can place them in.

I would wager that the Thousand Sons can play just as good a part as Plague Marines when it comes down to a proper list.

Personally, however, I am a Thousand Sons man ;)
 

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Whenever ive played with csm its been against sm so i always go for 1k sons as thier AP3 denies saves which means lots of enemys dead. Although I have always been drawn to plauge marines as i hate losing units so survival is very important to me.
 

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Then again, it's like Cruor99 said, 1k sons will get a save against weapons which would outright kill the PM. Cover helps but not in CC. A force consisting of both would be fun, PM in cover, 1k wherever they want.
 

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I keep seeing people saying to keep Thousand Sons out of CC, I consider this bad advice. My advice is to carefully choose how you get into CC with Thousand sons.
 

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Well After playing alot of CSM battles (being the only army I have now) I have some opponions on the Types.

First off Beserkers are awsome in CC. Simple as that. With Furious charge they can charge with 4 attacks at WS 5, Str 5, and Int 5. That means statisticly alot of dead MEQ. Add in the PF Champ = dead MCs and Walkers. Even a squad of 4-5 PF Termies will fell the punch of 7 zerkers and PF Champ. Whatever I charge at dies 9/10 times. Simple unit. However they have to make it up the board. Also if they were charge by other assualty units like Death Company :puke: they will die easy. So pull off the charge and laugh evily.

Sonic Marines are Expensive as fug. I been running a 1850-2000 point EC type army. Lots of Sonic Dakka, but typicaly feilding 3 units of 8. First lets talk price, ugg, 20 pts for a CSM with Fearless and Int 5. Add a champ with PW cost 30 more pts. I say PW cause why the hell would you run 25 pts (for something already expensive) PF champ hitting last when a 15 pt PW that strikes at Int 5. I found out its better cutting down enemy units into small numbers before they hit your expensive units back. Ontop of that if you add a Doom Siren, you have a Heavy Flamer with AP3. Again you just added another 15 Pts to a 50 Pt champ with PW. You have a 65 Pt beast that will crush MEQ at Range and in CC. If he dies you have 65 Pts of self ass kicking. I never recomend mixing a DS Champ with a mutiple SB/BM Noise Marine squad. Next is the Sonic Blaster and Blast Master. SB cost 5 pts. So the SB Marine is running at 25 Pts. So your spending 25 Pts for Bolter that always fires at 24" at either Heavy 3 or Assault 2. That means you can have mass medium Dakka at 24" and then if need be double tap at a approaching unit and charge at Int 5 with 3 attacks in CC. The BM adds to this with a Heavy 1 Krak Missle BLAST marker! Tight group of MEQ, good bye. On the Move the thing is a Heavy Bolter with Assault 2 profile. Both cases the damn thing causes pinning. Now you just took out a unit for a round possibly. However this marine cost 60 Pts altogether for this awsomness, ouch. So all in all NM are pretty flexible, and not so much awsome in CC or Range as Zekers or TS, but better than any other Cult Troop in be able to do both. Must play them carefully, give them cover everytime and let them sit on Objectives towards the middle ground. That way they can blast away and counter charge anything running or driving up to your lines.

PMs, I use them twice in small battles against Zerker only army. At 23 pts your getting a unit that sits somewhere and does not budge. At all! Mortarion is proud. The combi of T 5, Fearless, and FNP means what wounds you get will be shruuged off realibaly. I was charged by 8 man Zerker Squad against my 8 man PM squad, and I lost three and killed one. After that initial Charge the Zerkers were slowly wiped out, leaving 2-3 PMs left. They were charged and lived. Its a awsome feeling :smoke:. The Blight gernades help alot too against thos Charging units. A PF champ is a must for those MC/Walkers. The PMs are at Int 3 anyway, they're hitting last usauly, so give him a PF to make those hits counts. Melta Guns are the best choice as well. Plasma Guns are good too for them thanks to FNP. Kit them out with Meltas or Plasma to let them shoot up those damn Termies or Tanks . Nuff said about them.

!k Sons, never use them. I have seen them in action. There awsome, they fill a special role in CSM list. There MEQ killers. The best one out there. Add in the Sorceror with Doom Bolt, WoC, or BoC and you have a Infatry killer. Being able to move and shoot while getting the most of their AP3 Bolters gives ya good on the move killyness. Also unlike any other Cult Troop they are the ONLY ones that laugh at taking cover thanks to their Inv Saves. So take that Rhino till it blows and walk up that board unafraid. In CC though you might as will take your models and throw them back in your case. At one attack with a Sorceror as your only reliable heavy hitter means Tac Marines have a shot at tacking you out. MC of t 6 and Wlakers will eat you alive in CC. Being Fearless and gaurantee to take extra Saves after CC wheres you down as well. Dont get in CC plain and Simple.

Thats my input. Hope it helps.
 

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Just pointing out on the above, the sorcerer has 2 attacks on the profile, 3 with the bolt pistol. He is by no means a weakling in close combat. And Gift of Chaos is overlooked: A well placed spawn can keep the enemy well out of your close combat!
 

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Just pointing out on the above, the sorcerer has 2 attacks on the profile, 3 with the bolt pistol. He is by no means a weakling in close combat. And Gift of Chaos is overlooked: A well placed spawn can keep the enemy well out of your close combat!

Tsons Sorceror is no weakling, however the rest of the squad with him in CC is still easy meat for a Generic CSM squad of = Pts with a PF in CC. the TSons have 1 base attack, 2 on the charge. The Sorceror has 4 on charge, however he still has 1 single measly wound. Enough Wound allocations will neutralise his CC effectivness. Then the whole squad is in worse shape.

GoC is awsome to turn IC into your servant. However its usless most of the time against anything T5 or higher. The Power has to be use in the beggining of your turn, that means any competent player will stay the easy reach of 6" away from your Sorceror at the start of your turn, easy day. Plus your Sorceror has to make a Psy Check to use the thing, in 5th with So many Anti Psy abilities/ Mech transportation makes it difficult power to pull off. Its awsome when it works, but in a competitive setting its almost impossible to fire off. In a Kill Pt game its worse as that Spawn counts as a KP :(.

Tson are good at Dakka MEQ and walking into Big Guns unafraid. However their Expensive and get own in CC. Use them with caution.
 

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Had this awesome idea some years ago for a rock concert diorama using noise marines as the band, some khorne bezerkers in a mosh pit below the stage then some wailling banshees from the vampire counts range as backing singers and the spirit hosts as the rest of the crowd. Alas, could never justify the expense but would be quality.

Apologies, not stricly a relevant post it's just the OP reminded me about it for some reason :)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
interesting but slightly off topic.... Sounds like it would be cool tho.
I thing for the cult choices i might try a mix of plagues zerkers and then at higher levels noise marines.
Its a tough one to call.. Haha
 
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