The main one that comes to mind is points, though I'm not sure what the points cost is. Another might be for fluff reasons. A final one might have to do with their being too few shootas in the ork packs.

 

They are a free upgrade!

Ignore fluff in your reasonings, I wanna look at it purely from a gaming standpoint Should ahve said that my bad.

 

because you prefer the look of sluggas and choppas?, looks are a gaming standpoint.

 

Hmm, I guess that would be a reason for some people.

In terms of damage output, or just giving them better weapons.

I am correct in thinking that giving them a shoota doesn't change their CC ability yes?

If so, then giving them a shoota which has better stats that a slugga for free sounds like it should be done competitivly! Am i making sense at all? lol

 

Shoota boyz have less attacks and don't seem to last as long in combat as Slugga boyz.

 

Could you give me a referrence please mate?

 

of course you could just go 50/50 on slugga and shoota boys, you'll get flak from "competetive" gamers, but hell to them.

 

choppas are a cc weapon so give you a +1 attack, so you get 3 attacks and you get 4 attacks per boy on the charge.

with shootas you get the standard 2 attacks and 3 on the charge

 

Oh ok. Didn't know that. Thanks mate!

Now, does that apply to every CC weapon? Even for differetn races (sorry been a while since I last played)

So, say a Space marine captain has 3A, if you give him a power sword does he get 4? If not, then I'm a bit confused :S lol

 

Oh ok. Didn't know that. Thanks mate!

Now, does that apply to every CC weapon? Even for differetn races (sorry been a while since I last played)

So, say a Space marine captain has 3A, if you give him a power sword does he get 4? If not, then I'm a bit confused :S lol

The Power Sword is his first CC Weapon therefore already incorproated into his base A of 3.
If you give him a Lightning Claw or Thunder Hammer as well as the Power Sword then he gets an extra 1A.

SGMAlice

 

What Gunn said. Shootas for Footsloggin and Sluggas/Choppas for transports.

OBGOG

 

If you give him a Lightning Claw or Thunder Hammer as well as the Power Sword then he gets an extra 1A.

Can you do that?!

Please give me a page reference in the BRB I can look this shit up!

EDIT - Thanks Gally!

 

See the bottom right of page 42 for different weapons. You need 2 Lightning Claws/Powerfists/Thunderhammers to get the extra attack.


@SGMAlice,
I figured that, just though I'd clarify. And posting simultaneously makes me sound like a jerk, lol

 

but really, there is not reason to not take shoota boyz. Being assault weapons, you can still charge after firing them and the additional shot makes up for the loss of one attack. Especially when you are out of charge range.

 

If you give him a Lightning Claw or Thunder Hammer as well as the Power Sword then he gets an extra 1A.

That's not right. I don't have by rule book on me but check the section on weapon types in the assault chapter and then you see that power fist or thunder hammers don't confer an extra attack unless you have two of the same weapon. So if you give him a Power sword and TH then you only get to use the Thunder Hammer and the power sword offers no benefit.

You can however replace his bolter with a power sword and keep his bolt pistol to get the extra attack, and then even the extra attack from the pistol ignores armor.

 

personally, i LIKE the shoota. it still gives you 2 shots at 5 bs, but if you have a maxed out unit, thats a LOT of shots, and so a LOT of chances to wound. even if one turn it doesn't shoot so well, you can still charge with either a- that same unit or b- the other-unit-of-boys-that-you-took-in-case-of-a-fail-turn-like-this....
in other words, big risk, big reward.

 

Don't you mean BS 2? They need to roll 5+ to hit.

I think you guys may have just opened my eyes with CC weapons, but that is only if I got this right...
In the Sm codex it says replace bolter and/or chainsword. Now does this mean I can give him 2 power swords (one replacing the chainsword, the other replacing the bolter) and get the extra attack? Or not.

Thanks for all the help guys, much appreciated

 

I ALWAYS take choppas and sluggas, even in Footsloggers. You'd be surprised how many times those extra cc attacks saved our asses! I make them run anyway, so I don't see the need in taking off an extra attack for a gun we won't even use.

 

Ultra, you COULD take both powerswords, but why..? Your paying points to get the same effect. So the second is useless. What your missing there is that it doesnt replace his Bolt Pistol thus, 2 CCW, so +1 attack

 

what the hell would two thunder hammers acoomplish? Use your brains people.

How about reroll your missed hits? Vulkan He'Stan. The solution to all your Flamer/melta/Thunder Hammer needs!

 

Yes, but Vulkan gives you that. NOT dual hammers. They dont double your hammer rape, or add a buff you wouldnt get for cheaper or free, I.E. Bolt pistol

 

While having no overt benefits; It would certainly look cool
...ooo... Spare Captain... ooo... two spare Thunder Hammers...*Light Bulb Over Head!*

This hobby is about fun and imagination too you know. I regularily create models that would be of little to no use within the game.

SGMAlice

 

Oh I know. But if you actually read the posts to which I responded,

"Can you really do that?" Cause I need it" I highly doubt he was talking about his local modelling comp.

 

I have read this entire thread actually, and if you 'read it', You will find that i started the whole '2 Thunder Hammers' thing in the first place my poor wording is to blame.

I highly doubt he was talking about his local modelling comp.

Probably not but you seem to be getting just a little too irate at it.

SGMAlice

 

Not really, but its a pretty obvious answer to a useless question.

 

Two thunder-hammers gives you +1 A for two CCW, which you can't get with a thunderhammer from any other source. No pistol, no CCW- nothing gives you an extra attack with a tunderhammer other than a second.

So, if you took a Captain with Two TH along with vulkan, you would get 5 TH attacks on a charge that would re-roll to hit.

As opposed to 4 attacks from having just one TH.

 

On topic....

Personally i like Choppa/Sluggas better for my Battlewagons.

More often than not im declaring my Waaagh on turn 2, and need that fleet move to get into close combat.
If i cant shoot, then taking Shootas will considerably drop the effectiveness of the unit by quite a bit.

If i am able to have a round of shooting, Shootas will allow me to have 1 extra shooting attack, but 1 less attack in close combat.
With both being S4, the only real difference is that the close combat attack will hit most things on 4's or 3's, where as the shooting attack will be hitting on 5's.
While it looks like a no-brainer to take Slugga/Choppa Boyz when you look at it this way, you also have to take into account that you will likely be striking last in combat, and being able to get that extra attack in the shooting phase can kill a couple of models thus meaning you will suffer less casualties in combat.
If feel that this pretty well balances out, unless you are attacking something like TH/SS Termies in which case Choppas are much more effective.


However, as far as Orks on foot go, it should be Shootas all the way.
Sure you are going to be running the first few turns, but being able to sit on an objective late-game with a 24" threat range with a LOT of shots is quite effective.


But basically, Choppa/Slugga in assault-based transport units, and Shoota in foot sloggers or "drive-by" mech lists.

 

Thanks for all the help guys, your answers have been very helpful to me

 

This thread has far too many posts in it for such a simple question, caused by a lot of people being wrong about the rules for CCW.
Basically, you have the rulebook (presumably), someone should have given you a reference in the first few posts, you should have read that, and understood how it works, since the rules are pretty damn easy to understand.

There are 3 kinds of Close Combat Weapons.
Standard, which confer no special bonuses, just your base S/I/A etc. All Pistols count as a standard CCW.
Special, which confer some kind of special bonus, these include Power Weapons, poisoned weapons, Whichblades, etc. Most of these are specific to a codex.
And then there's the 'heavy' weapons, which are like special weapons, but cannot be used in combination with a CCW of a different type. Note that they aren't necessarily heavy, but it's just a convenient label for this explanation. These include Power Fists, Lightning Claws, and Thunder Hammers; not exclusively, there are codex-specific ones as well.

There are two 'sizes' of weapons.
1-handed: These can be used in combination with another CCW to grant a bonus attack in melee (not in the profile of the model, you add it on to that).
2-handed: These cannot be used in combination with another CCW, you cannot get the bonus attack for having 2CCW if you're using one of these.


The rules for gaining the bonus attack are as follows.
If you have 2 standard CCW, you gain the bonus attack.
If you have 1 standard and 1 special weapon, you gain the bonus attack.
If you have 2 of the same special weapon, you gain the bonus attack, but you would never actually do this as an option (since it's a waste of points, a pistol does just as well).
If you have 2 different special or heavy weapons, you cannot gain the bonus attack, even if you have a spare CCW; this is a penalty for having so many fancy gadgets, in a way.
A heavy weapon can never be used to gain the bonus attack unless you have 2 of the same heavy weapon, like a pair of Lightning Claws, or a pair of Power Fists (like Shrike and Calgar, respectively).


While writing this, I realised that Calgar technically doesn't get the bonus for having 2 fists, because he also has a Power Sword, and so he has two different special weapons, preventing him from gaining the 2CCW bonus.
LOL, NICE ONE GW!

 

While writing this, I realised that Calgar technically doesn't get the bonus for having 2 fists, because he also has a Power Sword, and so he has two different special weapons, preventing him from gaining the 2CCW bonus.
LOL, NICE ONE GW!

Actually, he has a Pair of Powerfists (as per the description of "Gauntlets of Ultramar") and a power sword.

Meaning he can choose between using 2 powerfists, a power first and powersword, or just the powersword.

The first option gives him the +1 Attack, the second option gives him no bonus whatsoever, and the third lets him strike with a power weapon at his initiative.