[Jack96]

I rarel paint rob1981 except for my necrons but I plan on painting everything as I get it with my new army
everyone I play with has a broken list (archaon and 30/40 chaos knights in 3k and kurt helborg AND karl franz in the same unit of inner circle knights) I never stand a chance against them but I want that to change
how bent is the dwarf king and what does he do

 

[Barnster]

If you play dwarves and want to stop knghts go cannon and bolt thrower heavy. Don't rely on special characters, but rather on big units of infantry and big guns. Just take a regualar dwarf lord with 1+ save and GW with the ASF rune. Ironbreakers will hold the line, with thunderers and quarrelers.

 

[Tim/Steve]

Dwarf King: him and his unit just dont die... ever. Thats basically summing him up. Anyone short of Archaon wont have much of a chance against him and the unit just isnt going to break (and being dwarves they are hard to kill). It is massively expensive and very slow moving though... so anyone with good tactics just tries to avoid you or lure you out of position while they destroy the rest of your army.

Just take a regualar dwarf lord with 1+ save and GW with the ASF rune.

There's no point taking the ASF rune with a great weapon as a dwarf... 8th ed means the great weapon's ASL cancels out the ASF of the rune and you strike at I... which being a dwarf if pretty mush ignorable. Just take the ASL great weapon and accept you'll be attacking second, your armour is normally good enough to see you through (especially if you take defensive runes).

 

[Masked Jackal]

I rarel paint rob1981 except for my necrons but I plan on painting everything as I get it with my new army
everyone I play with has a broken list (archaon and 30/40 chaos knights in 3k and kurt helborg AND karl franz in the same unit of inner circle knights) I never stand a chance against them but I want that to change
how bent is the dwarf king and what does he do

If your local players are taking something like that against you, there are ways to counter without being completely broken. For one thing, Archaon and a huge unit of Chaos Knights like that are over half the points allowance at 3k. Even with Magic Resistance 2, just casting away with Lore of Metal, combined with baiting and redirecting can keep this from being an issue. I'm not sure about Kurt Helborg and Karl Franz, as no-one here plays Empire, but I'm sure that there are similar counters to that unit. If it becomes that much of a problem, simply run counter-lists to them. A games no fun if you get wiped off a table, and, depending on the person, even the winning side feels the pain.

 

[Yilmar]

I'm not sure about Kurt Helborg and Karl Franz, as no-one here plays Empire...

Ouch!
I know I don't reply that much but that hurts :scratchhead:

Now countering KF and KH in a unit of IC knights is quite easy you know. All Empire special characters have very weak defences. Kurt Helborg only has a 2+ as while KF has a 2+ as, 4+ ws and with magic resistance a 2+ ws on magic. The magic resistance also transfers a 4+ ws to the rest of the unit. So granted that you won't kill them easily by magic but the other defences are easy to overcome.
The best way to counter both heroes and the unit of IC knights is purely by ranks and volume of attacks. The unit usually isn't steadfast and therefore has no stubborn making the unit vulnerable to break from combat. Also after the initial impact is absorbed, knights are generally good for only 1 turn, you should be able to wear them down and kill the unit eventually. All you need is a horde of stubborn or unbreakable infantry with a character that can dish out the pain in challenges.

Good luck!

Yilmar " the one that plays Empire " :grin:

 

[karlhunt]

Keep in mind that Lore of Metal's sixth spell causes every model in the unit to be removed as a casuality on a 5+ (6+ if they have more than one wound) with no saves of any kind allowed. That means that MR is worthless against it. Dwellers Below (life?) does the same with a Str check, I lost 11 out of 30 IC Knights on turn one this way.

 

[Yilmar]

And thats why you shouldn't have to many eggs in one basket.
Thank you 8th ed magic!

 

[Jack96]

If I'm dwarves I don't have magic but I really want to beat that empire army he used all the handgunners and warmachines in the world against me today and ONE little halberdier overran my stegadon cast pit of shades on my temple guard all that was left was my slann who causes d3 winds which are doubled against kurt cause I nominated him it was my 1 chance to kill him I was ws 10 and I got a 2 to hit it was the most annoying thing EVER
I'd still like to know the rules for the king and the minimum sized game I can use him

 

[boreas]

I understand you play Lizardmen? If you already have those, you could cheeze them out... 2 units of 3 salamanders will usually be horrendously powerfull against the Empire. Add to that a slann with Ruminations of Focus, Cupped hands, plaque of Tepok (+1 spell) with lore of Metal and you'll devastate his knights and (if there is one) Steam tank. Finally, take some terradons accompanied by a skink chief on terradon with Mask of EEE! to give the unit terror) and go warmachine hunting (add 2 units of chameleon skinks and you wont fear cannons anymore!). Finally, add blocks of 6x4 saurus with HW&S (very resistant blocks of troops that can be buffed by Enchanted Blades of Aiban). Final Transmutation can hurt all big units also.

That should also work well against a chaos list that's heavy with Chaos knights and WoC.

Phil

 

[Jack96]

I won't be able to cheese out on my lizardmen as I am selling them along with my wood elves so i can have money to start dwarves and emperrors children for 40k
I don't want to buy dwarves till I see a broken thorgrim grudgbearer list so I know what to buy

 

[the-graven]

You know I'm fightinh DE and HE too, and the high elf player likes to make a list as strong as possible, this mostly results in broken, but you know what, I'm not gonna make a broken list with my lizzie's, I don't care if I lose, I just play for fun, you should try that too, just play for fun. And if it really annoys you ask your friends if they can make some less broken lists, so it'll be more fun.
Another thing, make up a scenario wich works in your favor, i.e. make a scenario where wild cold ones ambush(his army of course).

 

[Jack96]

I've already promised someone i'd sell the lizzies to him so I can't

 

[deathbringer]

First of all as has been repeated jack you seem like a "I must win" tool, my advice is get a brain and some tactical ability and games will start to go right for you. If your current list cant counter it change your list slightly look for weaknesses in their list and match them to the strengths in yours, not throw a pissfit and say dont want to play with these shitty models anymore.

Vampire counts are still a horribly difficult army, with nasty nasty vampires easily renewing there unbreakable units due to the new casting system. Generally they are still nasty, though the limit on lords and charactors makes them far less difficult than they were however roll on huge huge ranks of zombies and ethereal units in the flanks.

Dwarves are tough too as artillery is now horrible, stone throwers and peasants in my brett lists, shit i feel sick just thinking about it. Unfortunately i think im just going to have to loose and stick with my large armounts of knights, at least they look pretty.

 

[Jack96]

I'm gonna do demons
here's an idea for a 3k list
keeper of secrets lvl 4 100 pts of gifts (dunno what to give it)
2 heralds of slaanesh maxed out and 1 on a seeker
skulltaker
30 demonettes with siren standard
30 demonettes
30 bloodletters with endless war standard
6 seekers
6 flamers

what do you think
if anyone knows what to give my KoS please tell and say what the gifts do I don't have an armybook yet I was just lookin through the stores copy today

 

[Freedirtyneedles]

o.k so you'll be selling off all your old models to buy a new army that you think will defeat everything. but what happens when that army fails your expectations? Logic dictates that it would just be cheaper to find a way to win with the army you have instead of starting a new one everytime you lose.
example: I started playing nurgle themed warriors of chaos army, and had a TON of losses while learning how my army worked, and how to actually win with my army. Archeon Can be beaten...I did it in a challenge with a simple nurgle lord. never fought Franz but I beat Kurt with the same Lord, if those guys keep popping up, have a strat to beat em down. no army out there will win just by showing up,find what your army does well and focus on that, then find out what your army sucks at and figure out a strat to compensate. example, my army is very infantry heavy, the units are meat grinders with legs, downsides are they have no ranged support are expensive and slow moving. solutions: grabbed a nurgle sorc to help wittle down enemy units as I advanced, got a nice banner to keep my front line from scattering, gave the large units mark of nurgle to protect from missle fire, and screened with chaos hounds, also added some cav to help the flanks. result: very nice list that my rivals like to play against, that does'nt rely on cheesey combos to win, just a solid plan and an understanding of what my army can and can't do. do I win everytime? hell no, but winning everytime is'nt that fun.We have an undefeated empire player in the club, he seems kinda bored and WANTS to be beaten(of course he ain't gonna just let ya do it), but it's still a blast to play against him(pun intended). bottom line, if you ain't having fun...take a stepback and see why. then come up with your solution.
anyway that's my two cents.

 

[Arbite]

I'm gonna do demons
here's an idea for a 3k list
keeper of secrets lvl 4 100 pts of gifts (dunno what to give it)
2 heralds of slaanesh maxed out and 1 on a seeker
skulltaker
30 demonettes with siren standard
30 demonettes
30 bloodletters with endless war standard
6 seekers
6 flamers

what do you think
if anyone knows what to give my KoS please tell and say what the gifts do I don't have an armybook yet I was just lookin through the stores copy today

Get a book. Also, that army shouldn't be overly difficult to beat.

 

[Azkaellon]

Well for the record im going rid of my DoC armybook.....

Anyhow There is no "best" it all depends on your play style! Demons are a simple army so if you like playing simple tactics there perfect!!!

Mind you....Right now Warriors of chaos are flying off the shelfs.....

 

[Tim/Steve]

Not really surprising- and can be summed up by 3 of the units I was playing against last night: 30 warriors, 10 wide with MoN and frenzy banner. Valkier. 15 MoK knights.
Each is capable of just running forward and hitting something and almost everything will crumple under their attack. Very simple to understand, very simple to play with (and so enjoyable to make mincemeat of).

 

[the-graven]

Jack you know what you should do, pick an army whose playing style and look you like, and learn how to play it, you'll lose when you start the army, but when you get experience you'll learn how to use that army well and what you need to counter specific army lists

 

[Darkblade]

The best way to play a broken army, is to grab the nearest dwarven/lizzard/chaos/whatever army box, put the models together, then go grab a sledgehammer, smash the models, and put glue on them. There you go, broken army.

Or maybe, just maybe, you can try to play this game in a way that it´s made to be played...say...for fun....instead of trying to get a steamroller army build, wich frankly, still can get on his arse by bad dicerolling.