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I have to say that I really love the Horus Heresy and think it is some of the best sci-fi fiction out there but lately I have found the books to be really boring. I don't care about humans and remembrances. What I want is space marine vs space marine and to find out more about the primarchs and how they turned to chaos. The visions of heresy was a good framework for the stories but I want more. How do you feel the series is going? I personally am looking forward to first heretic. The extract was awesome and the idea of the heresy finally getting into full swing makes me very excited.
 

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Couldn`t agree more Night, and yes, I am prepared to weather the inevitable hate from the Black Library section for this; a banished son, so fitting. Remembrancers were a shrewd tool used by Dan Abnett in Horus Rising designed so that the reader could more so embrace the awe that the Astartes create. It helped give much greater character depth to the Luna Wolves, whilst providing other interesting and ingenious insights into the mechanisms of the Great Crusade.

Kudos to Abnett and McNeill. The latter took our Ignace Karkasy`s and Euphrati Keeler`s, and possibly -though I may be chastisised for this- portraying them even better than Abnett`s original novel. I loved them, and False Gods lacked in action, it made up for in philosophical interest.

Galaxy in Flames and The Flight of the Eisenstein carried on the legacy of this two giants, the former, frankly a loathsome job, the latter a mediocre attempt, although I applaud Swallow for concentrating far more on the Astartes in his work.

Barring Fulgrim - in whose case the cast of remembrancers contrasted so effortlessly to Fulgrim`s fall from grace - every Horus Heresy novel has taken this original, interesting concept and made it into a boring, overused cliche. I point you to A Thousand Sons. I deteste insulting, arguably my liege -Graham McNeill is almost to me, what AD-B is to LOTN - but I felt the remembrancers were pointless, not even taken into any major depth, and didn`t even have a fitting ending, although I sense Abnett shall wrap that one up.

What do I want? And ending. A Siege of Terra. A forlorn son fighting his Father. The Original Horus Heresy, not... major events: Nikaea, Davin, Isstvan III/V, Prospero, Signus with a ton of filler, its worse than Bleach is.... And thats Anime, I expect filler in that...
 

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Craw-Daddy
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What I want primarly out of the series is to see the demise of each of the great primarchs. I thought that Legion, Fulgrim, and A Thousand Sons and pretty soon First Heretic were great ways (First Heretic - we shall see) in showing how great primarchs and legions were their falls, and what their reasons were instead of purely demonizing. I think that daemonizing the primarchs that joined Horus is such a cliche thing to do when judging traitors but as the books show these were the greatest of men and their falls great as well. I look forward to all the primarchs and their legions being written about and hopefully Angron and the World Eaters can be looked upon better than that simple writting of Desh'ea. Maybe the weird term "Red Angel" to Angron means something more. I think the reference of Angron being any type of Angel as being a bad analogy... at least for now.
 

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books of bolter porn, Marine vs. Marine
I read that quickly....and giggled.

At this point, I really want the Siege of Terra.

I know how it ends.
I know what happens.


Now I want to feth'ing read it!!! :headbutt:
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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I want to learn more about the wolves. I want to learn more about the emperor. I want to learn more about the sons of the emperor. I want to learn more about the heretics. And by god I want to know what happened to those two missing PRIMARCH!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
If the rest of first heretic is like the extract then we are in for a real treat. The difference between guiliman and lorgar is fantastic and to be honest the ultramarines are a really underrated legion because they are so organised at what they do. Although that said it has a long way to go to be worse then battle for the abyss, taking some of the best chapters and playing them to their stereotypes. The only interesting character in that book was the world eater. What really got me going was the bond villian space marines. Then we get to thousand sons. What upset me about this is that I like Graham McNeil and I felt really let down by him. I was soo bored by the book I got to the beginning of the council meeting and put it down. Haven't looked back. The book pretty much wrote itself, what with the index astartes and to be bored senseless.....

Anyway. Sorry about that. Real sore point. To be honest I don't think there is anything wrong with bolted porn. Yes there are the other arms of the imperium but when you boil it down. The heresy is more to do what the primarchs and their children and how they effected everyone elses lives at that time. Prime examples of this would be the first five books of the Horus heresy since they are still the best of the series and they show what imperial life is like with space marines are around.
 

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I want to see some light shed on the Emperor`s story, some more depth on how he thinks and possibly even his origins, at least more than when he was born. All that tells us is that he`s no normal man, and he`s really friggin` old. This we knew.

And the missing Primarch is too cliche and annoying now. End it already!
 

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I'm quite happy to read about the every day joe during the Heresy, it gives the setting far more substance than just Primarch A vs Primarch B. Knowing what happened at small level gives the series more depth and keeps things interesting.
I would like to see the story pushed on a little though, I think in terms of time line we're still only just past the dropsite massacre, it would be nice for things to move on a bit.
I love the series though, except Battle for the Abyss, which quite frankly sucked arse!
 

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The best books in the series was Thousand Sons, Battle for the Abyss, and the first three books. I really like the way Mcneil and Counter write. I really tried geting into Legion but couldn't. I can't stand it when authors start out the story using terms and phrases that they have never explained and expect you to just go along with it. I can understand it to some degree but I really did have to put it down after two chapters. Fulgrim was great too, just didn't like how he corrupted himself.
 

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Craw-Daddy
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What did you like about Battle for the Abyss? To be honest liking that book, let alone considering it one of the best in the HH series, puts you in a very small minority.
I agree. Personally I thought it was such a shitty story to expand into a novel. Reading Ben Counter's other works including the Soul Drinkers Omnibus, Hammer of Daemons, and Galaxy and Flames, I tend to forgive him. I am more disapointed that the BL and Heresy "Comittee" decided that such a story was necessary to create into a novel.
 

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I didn't mind Battle for the Abyss as a stand alone book, it just had no real place in the HH series. It could have been set at any point and probably would have done better as a stand alone 40K novel, just change the chapters involved to modern loyalists equivalents.
It still wouldn't have been a great book but at least it wouldn't have been such a stain on the otherwise briliant HH series.
 

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Well I'd really like the last book to come with a piece of Jervis Johnson as a free gift, but the storyline? Well we know what happens so not much really. A detailed description of the Palace and Horus' Flagship would be nice though.

Midnight
 

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I agree. Personally I thought it was such a shitty story to expand into a novel. Reading Ben Counter's other works including the Soul Drinkers Omnibus, Hammer of Daemons, and Galaxy and Flames, I am more disapointed that the BL and Heresy "Comittee" decided that such a story was necessary to create into a novel.
More likely it would have been Ben Counter putting forth the proposal to make that story and the HH 'committee' just ok'd it.
 

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I have to say that I really love the Horus Heresy and think it is some of the best sci-fi fiction out there but lately I have found the books to be really boring. I don't care about humans and remembrances. What I want is space marine vs space marine and to find out more about the primarchs and how they turned to chaos. The visions of heresy was a good framework for the stories but I want more. How do you feel the series is going? I personally am looking forward to first heretic. The extract was awesome and the idea of the heresy finally getting into full swing makes me very excited.
I kind of 'LIVE' for the HH Series!...as much as I can live for a literary series with all the things in life staking up!!:laugh:

I just want the HH Series to keep going! The rate of publications is OK but could be quicker. I say this as a fan and not a customer as I know and understand the industry very well. It's all down to numbers and deadlines I am afraid...so I am happy with the books when they are released!

The remembrancers are a VITAL link to the WHOLE story and we can thank Abnett for thier creation! I view the HH Series NOT as 'The Bible' of the definition of how things went way back when...but rather an 'interpretation'.

To me it has to be this way as the game system demands this. Everything up till now in the game and it's fluff...is, well...fluff! When we accept it as FACT...then even OUR imaginations are sunderred and we have to change the way we think about it. Why do you think the authors keep some cards very close to their chests? Because we don't need to know everthing to enjoy it. In fact, if we knew 'Everthing' then the game would be over.

I know I am sounding a bit 'Pie in the Skyish' but it's imagination of the consumers and players that makes the 40k world so vibrant. If everthing was a fact then it would be so narrow.

So...back on my theme. Remembrancers: So important as they carried the story from the Heresy till now...'Gifting' the future with the scaps of history!

With all the storylines so far and me being a Dark Angels fan I still want that one 'resolved' if it can be...but more importantly I want a few novels dedicated to the AFTERMATH of the Final Battles and such...I want to eventually (patience!!) read of Gulliman's reorganisation of the Legions; What 'Good' Primarchs did behind his back and if they secreted something from him; the creation and implementation of the Inquistion and Grey Knights (as are a lot of people!); the accention of the Lords of Terra and their role in the future we now play our game in; and many many more that I can only imagine right now...

I hope the HH Series does not stop at the end..I hope the end is a beginning for even greater stories!

:victory:
 

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I like it because of Ben's writting style. i really don't know what it is about it but I like it, but hey it's just my opinion. I really didn't like how descent ov Angels was in the series. The ONLY reason I can see it there was to show that Luther began hating the Lion.

I'm about to read Mechanicum, is it any good?
 

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I just want some info of legions that havent been covered yet. Siege of Terra of course will bring us Blood Angels and White Scars but more info on for example Iron warriors or Raven Guard would be nice. Ravens of course were mostly killed during dropsite massacre.

Would be nice to see a story of Dropsite massacre aftermath. Fulgrim had some information about this, but i thought overall it was covered in too few pages. There must have been a huge spacebattle going on at sametime. Book about Calth is on waiting list and conclusion to Dark Angels story. Hope they bring Gavin T. to write this. And then Siege of Terra.

Remembrancers have important part of story so far, we got to see Astartes more through "our" eyes. They played a big part in first 5 novels of series, only in Thousand Sons they were just alittle distant. Also that they are real civilians we have more moral side to things happening outside combat. Most novels most boring parts have been actual combat. Its the events that lead to these clashes that are important, not how many swings of chainsword brings down enemies. Legion is good example. Very good story and reader has to think sometimes what really happened instead of told the whole plot immediately like in typical hollywood movie.

HH series must have been best i ever read and this must at some point come to an end. I hope that we got still good books about events, but what i dont want is that series will just be made book after book with no end in sight. Many of televisions series have gone from great to mediocore when they start just make more seasons that are really necessary. Hope that we still get around 10 books that are great to read.
 

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I agree that Gav would be good to draft in to pen one of the books of the HH series. Having just read Path of the Warrior I cannot wait to read Path of the Seer since he puts so much detail and creates a visible colourful atmosphere.

Of the series itself-I suppose the obvious mention of at least one of the 2 missing primarchs would be a real crowd pleaser. However on a more likely footing I would like the siege of Terra to be detailed and have more detail on whether the mark that Sanguinius made on Horus did make a difference when he fought the big E.

Another story arc worth considering is playing a book with a civilians point of view on a planet being fiercely contested by both forces. The themes such as traitor marines despoil whilst loyal marines try to defend the protagonist.
 
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