Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
While it's more or less random who plays against who with my friends, we do tend to generally end up going "good guys" vs "bad guys" (or as close to it as the Grim Darkness of the Far Future can have) so I, having two flavors of Chaos army, always end up playing against the same people. Basically, I want a "good guy" army of sorts, but I'm not sure what I want.

I know I don't want loyalist Space Marines. Everyone and their mother plays Space Marines. Even people who have no idea what Warhammer is secretly play Space Marines. That and I already play Chaos Marines, which are basically just Emo Space Marines. So, definitely don't want that.

Imperial Guard I would consider, except that you need WAY too many models and that's WAY more money than I want to spend on a third army. That and we already have a friend in our group who only plays Imperial Guard. He plays the least, but still... at least our other "good guy" players have other armies they play sometimes.

So... that leaves me with either Eldar or Tau. I have one friend who plays Eldar and have never even met anyone in person who even owns Tau, so at first I considered going that rout... until I posted my list and people made me realize I needed to change so many things that I really should just start it over from scratch. My one Eldar friend is easily our best player, but I've been studying the codex a bit and I have no clue how he pulls off what he does with them.

Long story short, I have no idea how to play either army viably. I'd prefer to go with Tau just because it's different, but realizing I have absolutely no idea how to play them and stand a chance is a bit disheartening. Eldar might turn out to be more my style, but I likewise have no clue what I should be doing with them. I tried reading the official tactical articles on the GW site, and they pretty much lead me to my horrible excuse to a Tau list, so I'm not bothering over there anymore.

So, if anyone could help me out by summing up some of the more effective strategies for either Tau or Eldar (or both) I would be very appreciative.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Okay.... what if I said "looks less like stereotypical bad guys" vs "looks more like stereotypical bad guys"? I know everyone in 40k is evil, that's not really the point. :p
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
4,491 Posts
Eldar are a fun army to play, and are more competitive than Tau.

Some of their stuff is overcosted, but some is a bargain (Fire Dragons for example).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,864 Posts
To use Eldar remember that the army operates like a heavyweight boxer with a glass jaw. What this means is that it can hit opponents rather powerfully but it is really fragile. Just remember that dire avengers make better troops than guardians, pathfinders are awesome in any kind of cover and karandras with harlies including a shadowseer make a badass assault force that can assault turn 1 if deployed effectively (and in cover, cover is the eldar's best friend)

Since your opponents use chaos marines consider taking the following heavy support choice:

5 dark reapers including exarch with a tempest launcher and the crack shot skill-217 points

Each guy packs a 2 shot S5 AP3 gun whilst the tempest launcher allows the exarch to pump out 2 small blasts at S4 AP3 that gain rerolls to wound and ignore cover saves-in other words great for clearing khorne nutters before they reach you.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
4,491 Posts
To use Eldar remember that the army operates like a heavyweight boxer with a glass jaw. What this means is that it can hit opponents rather powerfully but it is really fragile. Just remember that dire avengers make better troops than guardians, pathfinders are awesome in any kind of cover and karandras with harlies including a shadowseer make a badass assault force that can assault turn 1 if deployed effectively (and in cover, cover is the eldar's best friend)

Since your opponents use chaos marines consider taking the following heavy support choice:

5 dark reapers including exarch with a tempest launcher and the crack shot skill-217 points

Each guy packs a 2 shot S5 AP3 gun whilst the tempest launcher allows the exarch to pump out 2 small blasts at S4 AP3 that gain rerolls to wound and ignore cover saves-in other words great for clearing khorne nutters before they reach you.
Dont forget Fire Dragons in Wave Serpents.
Crucial for busting open those Land Raiders and killing the soft Berzerkers inside.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Actually I'm the only person in my group of friends that plays Chaos anything. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Here's the full list of what my friends play, in order of how often I play with them from most to least, if that changes anything:

1. Eldar, Tyranids
2. Space Wolves, Tyranids
3. Orks
4. Necrons
5. Space Marines, Orks
6. Imperial Guard
7. Orks
8. Just about everything except for Chaos Marines and Daemons, which he sold to me, or Space Wolves, which he sold to #2. I really don't bother trying to beat this guy, though, for obvious reasons. lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
I play Chaos and I'm very slowly building an Eldar army. I really believe that playing Eldar will make you a better overall player. Eldar are fun, they look really cool from my point of view, they are very competitive, and they are hard(er) than some armies to play.

What I mean is, with my Chaos army there is a little more room for error, not much, but some. With my small Eldar army, they can be more effective than my Chaos army, but they can also get me tabled if I make one too many mistakes. On a side note, fire dragons might be the most cost effective unit in the game. The only downside to Eldar for me is that I don't like working with all the metal models.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,736 Posts
tau are actually really powerful im starting a tau army and i know that tau are fun but when eldar vs tau, eldar aren't as versatile as tau in upgrades, but they are in strategy they also contain 2 of my favourite units wraithlords and wraithguard on that note tau contain some of the best guns in the game they are strictly a shooty army it is very hard if not impossible to make them close-combat oriented. eldar whoever have very good shooters(fire dragons) and incredible assaulter's (banshees) but they are kind of a glass hammer if you want incredible fire power go tau as there basic weapons are strength 5 and they have railguns but if you want to choose your tactics and make them your own go eldar as you just cant do that with tau
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
what style of army are you look for?
I really wish I knew. Something different enough to feel unique and fun, but similar enough that I won't be completely overwhelmed immediately by the different play style. That said, I know Daemons play completely differently from every other army in the game, so that doesn't count ;-) .

For Chaos Marines I usually favor Noise Marines, Plague Marines, Lash Princes with Defilers and Obliterators, and (hear me out) Possessed. I know their lack of grenades makes them sound crappy, but when I give them Mark of Nurgle and run them on foot, they're too tempting a target for most players to pass up, too dangerous to leave alone, and tough enough to survive a couple rounds of focused fire while everything else I have shoots from behind them. Plague Marines are good at this too, but they don't have the inv save, and since they're a scoring unit and actually have guns, I usually have them doing more important things.

For Daemons, I usually use Great Unclean Ones (or sometimes a GUO and a Bloodthirster if I'm feeling lucky,) a mix of Soul Grinders and decked out Nurgle Princes (which I have more of depends on my mood) Flamers, Horrors, Plaguebearers and Daemonettes. Sometimes Bloodletters if I know MEQ units will be in play. I like using Fiends, but the models keep falling apart and I'm usually too infuriated with it give them the honor of being in my army. I might get Seekers and use them instead of Daemonettes now that they have models out for them.

I'm pretty sure neither Eldar nor Tau play at all like either of those, which is both good and bad.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Play Inquisition. Whether it be Daemonhunters or Witchhunters, its a good choice. As a good friend once said:
BURN THE HERETIC! KILL THE MUTANT! PURGE THE UNCLEAN!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,864 Posts
Cheesy!

Secondly avoid inquisition for now since the update rumours are reaching fever pitch so wait until they die down or the update is made.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
496 Posts
TBH id go with tau, the thing about Tau is, if you move your models your not playing Tau right (i dont consider Kroot to be Tau, even though they are in the same codex)

ok i kinda lied.... when playing Tau you dont move your Fire warriors after they get out of the Devilfish

Basicly the porblem with Guard and Tau is they both completely lack Close combat power (somthing your probably used to having with CSM's)

if your playing Tau and you have the option of using your Pule rifles for one more round of shooting (RApid fire) or you can charge the enemy, you take the round of shooting, end of story

sit back and abuse your big guns (Broadside Rail-guns, or Imperial Manticores)

Personaly i love both armys (Imperial and Tau) so either is fine...

Eldar is like a Beautiful work of art
you need the right colours in the right place or its completely fucked the only way to learn Eldar is Trial by Playing...

maby ask your Eldar playing friend if you can use his army for a few games and get into the vibe of them


All three armys can be fun and Devitsating to play :3

i would go Eldar first (Rangers <3) Tau Next (Rail-gun spam) and Imperial last (Masses of Troops or Tank-rape)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
803 Posts
Honestly Tau had their day in 3rd edition. Since then they really have to grind out wins, or even draws. In 5th you have to go full mechanization in order to be competitive, which for me gets boring. The Tau Devilfish transport, when you make it useful, is EXTREMELY expensive points wise.. 120 points. Thats ridiculous compared to the 50 point CSM rhinos that you are used to. So you will spend your days moving your FWs around in their fishes trying to figure out when you can disembark without getting raped, and will probably get raped anyways. Crisis Suits and HHs on the other hand are awesome. Super flexible and fun to play with. Unfortunately, in 5th troops are more important than ever, and Fire Warriors just fall short.

After years of playing them I shelved Tau for CSMs, and that ended up being a very good thing. I am also enjoying Tyranids. I haven't looked at my Tau in years, and won't until they get an update, which probably won't happen. They aren't high on GWs list of priorities. Eldar on the other hand are a good choice. Lots of variability, definitely have competitive builds in 5th edition, and they will continue to get new codices. Personally I would go with Guard for a "good" army. They got a recent update, and all those tanks are just fun. You don't have to have 200 models. Just go tank heavy. And only one of your friends play them...and no two Guard army lists look or play the same.

There is a reason nobody you have ever met plays Tau. Don't waste your time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
So far it definitely sounds like Eldar is the winner here. I kinda feel bad for my Eldar friend though. He has two armies, Eldar and Tyranids, but we have another person who plays Space Wolves and Tyranids. If I take Eldar, he won't have anything unique among us anymore.

Still, if they're really that much better than Tau, he'll probably understand I suppose.

I already figured out what I would get if I go Tau, but what would you guys recommend for Eldar? With them being so much more tactically diverse, I'm not sure what would really work well together.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
496 Posts
all comers doesnt come easy to Eldar just due to the fact that their units are so specialized

Firedragons are ALWAYS good, Cheap and mass Melta, and in a waveserpent they are hella fast

Scorpians are better for going against swarms as they get more atatcks, while Banshees stand out against tougher opponants due to them ALL having Power weapons and I10 on the first round of combat (unless they charge into cover)

Warpspiders are a personal favorite of mine... VERY powerful weapons but they completey lack AP and are short range... but they are HIGHLY manurable, probably not so much for competitive but they are still ok if you wanna have some fun

also Dire avengers are what you wanna use for troops...

thats about as far as my Knowlege of Eldar goes D:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
220 Posts
id think running a non assault army would better to expand yourself as a player no matter who you choose.

grey knight supported, artillery tank heavy vostroyan imperial guard
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
4,491 Posts
Despite what people say about Eldar being a hard army to play, they actually play fairly easily.

As long as you have a decent understanding of the game and know about tactics and whats good against what, then Eldar are easy to play.

Just think of them like rock-paper-scissors.
Use your "rock" units against the opponents scissors, your "scissors" units against the opponents paper units, and your "paper" units against their rocks.
Matching up your scissors to the opponents rock will really hurt you.

For example, use Dire Avengers against mass infantry, Fire Dragons against vehicles, and Howling Banshees against things with good saves.

As long as your an experienced player and have more than 3 brain cells, you wont have any problem playing with Eldar.
As oppose to marines, the jack of all trades masters of none. Very forgiving with tactics but dont really excel at anything in particular.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,864 Posts
Particular units that reside in my eldar army are dire avengers with bladestorm power, pathfinders in some cover for the brill 2+ cover save and some fire dragons in a holofield equipped falcon. I also use harlies with a shadowseer and a phoenix lord.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top