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Discussion Starter #1
Hey! I'm just about to start playing WH40K again after a couple years break. I was certain that I wanted to play CSM, but now I'm not so sure anymore. I've become very interested in Space Wolves aswell. Both armies are tempting becuase of the very tough units, and their excellent close combat skills. I'm definetly more of a close combat person than a ranged pew pew person, so I'm wondering what army might suit me best? Please help me!
 

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It really about personal choice. the wolves are mighty strong, but very situational units (lol throwing that special character at a group of guys, then popping "the last laugh" taking them all with him) But space puppies just dont have that touch of chaos that everyone needs in a close combat army.

but if your REALLY into close combat, theres 4 armies that do it very well.

1. Blood angels death company. These guys are RETARDED OP in close combat (rage, fleet, furious charge, relentless, etc) its like they are piled with special rules.
and their dreadnaughts are retarded scary (blood claws give it 6 attacks on a charge, for every unsaved wound he gets to attack again you can potentially destroy a unit of 30 orks with 1 dread, hes hitting them on 3s re-rollable thanks to claws, and wounding on 2's , orks get no save so any wound he makes they die and u get another attack to wound and kill again.
But its still a dread, pop it with lascannons or something

2. Chaos daemons: Like the blood angels, these guys are almost entirely melee based. all bloodletters have power weapons, a decent 5+ invuln and they could take an upgrade to their strength to wound even easier. Daemonettes are fleeting, rending, and mezmorising ladies (enemies lose charge attack charging them, assault grenades when charging into cover) and their leader can take a pavane (weaker lash). plus ive seen a garbage unit of 5 daemonettes rend a landraider and kill it on first turn.
The daemons have other powerful units (nurgle is slow but f'ing hard to kill) and you can even use this army in fantasy (just customize the base to be a circle that fits into the square for easy change up)

3. Chaos marines: A mix of chaos and marine makes a powerful concoction. Powerful assault units, devastating ranged firepower, vanilla landraiders and preds, no drop pods or razorbacks (sadly) and no basic squads capable of taking a plascannon. but the chaos marines hold the title of having the largest most diveres selection of troop choises in IN THE GAME (sadly half of them are over-priced)
Khorne heavy armies are by far melee monsters, they give up the ability to use chaos magiks but gain extra attacks and khorn berzerkers are MONSTERS (10 zerkers and champ pumping out 45 WS 5, STR 5, 5 of them power weapon, or fist on assault, rarely anything survives, include kharn for another 7 hitting on 2's str 6 power weapon attacks (also hits tanks with 6+d6 and an extra d6 armor pen)
And you have access to very powerful magic with the chaos marines.
warptime for reroll to hits and re-roll wound
lash of submission (slaanesh only, but POWERFUL control tool)
wind of chaos (always glances vehicles on a 4+ (by by landraider, lith?)
nurgles rot (Horde repellent)
bolt of change (24 inch str 8, ap1, assault 1? OK!) molests tanks
and theres always the fun little skill gift of chaos
Yes its only 6 inches but the potential to turn ANY enemy model into a blob or a spawn is quite hilarious
(Hive tyrant flew in. he shot some stuff at me i removed casualties to make him unable to charge with the tyrant but instead another group, won combat and consilidated near the tyrant. My turn came and i popped gift of chaos, (needed to roll a 6 to get him) and rolled a 4(luckily for me i had MoT and a familiar, popped it twice more and GOT HIM LOL) 300 points of angry tyrant reduced to a blob of nothing.

4. Space puppies. Not quite as good as blood angels, but its about taste really. but these guys are a collectors/specialist army and are quite expensive to build up. the upgraded lightning claws are a bonus (some units get one for free) and their HQ's, special characters are powerful. their psykers have some unique spells, but they aren't that great. a good melee army, but blood angels do it better.

yes blood angels sound high and mighty right now, its only because they've been updated recently (everyone knows an updated codex make them OP until everyone else gets updated)
The wolves were the first to get 5th edition. so they wont be changing for a while.
Daemons are getting an update sooner or later
Chaos marines in a few years.

A wrap up.
The army you choose depends entirely on the person, I suggest you find people who already own one of the armies and test them out, if not pick what your gut says.
 

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Curiouser and Curiouser
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If you are looking for a close combat army well both armies have great ability in that department but I'll elaborate a little here for ya.

Chaos - For CC everyone loves their the berserkers and as far as troops go they are outstanding close combat beasts. They also have a number of CC special characters that are really good like kharn and abaddon. Perhaps my favorite CC thing about chaos is the daemon prince with wings, MoN and warptime. He is a CC BEAST! For Pure CC I would go chaos and have a khorn army based on defilers, khorne berserkers, Warptime princes and maybe kharn.

Space Wolves - The main troop choice of the space wolves, the grey hunters, are the best all around troop choice in the game imo. They will hold their own in CC with all but dedicated CC units with their counter-attack and bolter/bolt pistol/chainsword. Space wolves terminators are fairly overpriced so you probably won't be fielding TH/SS termies here. Thunderwolf cavalry are amazing CC beasts and you can play with wound allocation here too. The only problem is that there are no official GW models for them so you will have to build them from other GW stuff or buy from other sellers. Their special characters are also pretty amazing as far as CC goes. Ragnar Blackmane and Logan Grimnar will rip stuff up in CC but both are rather expensive versus Kharn.

If you are looking for a solely CC army I would go chaos. Fielding tons of berserkers is lots of fun!

Ah, good rundown from bucketwalrus but I have to disagree regarding space wolves. They have some of the best psychic powers in the game such as living lightning and tempest's wrath (which severely cripples many armies including blood angels) and one of the best psychic defenses in the game, 4+ to cancel psychic powers is awesome! They also have some of the best melee upgrades around. The wolf standard that let's you reroll all one's in cc and MotW which gives you d6+1 attacks that are rending.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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Wolves. They have some ungodly cc units. A while back I played a game against my cuzes zerk army with a tw competitive list I was playing around with and they ate his zerks up. Wolves are probably the best out of the new codices, not by much though. If you want to win and win a lot with lists that are fun to build and fun to play I say wolves. Chaos has maybe one really competitive list and that's about it, not a whole lot of spark to them.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Awesome reply, thanks a lot. See the thing is I'm not only in it for the gaming part of the hobby, I'm also very interested in the modeling and painting part.

I just love the sexy viking look of the Space Wolves, and the sheer chaos (duh...?) look of the CSM. DA look nice too, but I don't want an all melee army, some shooting is nice.

Especially because of the fact that most of my games I will play will be against my roommate who is going to be playing Orks. What I want is a cool-looking army able to blast his stronger units down, then being able to decimate his Boyz in close combat.

I'm pretty confident that CSM stands a good chance against those greenskins, what about Space Wolves?
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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Giant green chew toys. Wolves have a good chance of beating any army out there, there is not real army they do poorly against if played right. Hell, some you don't even need to play right against to beat, 5th edition gap... Although compared to 5th armies they are balanced.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Wolves. They have some ungodly cc units. A while back I played a game against my cuzes zerk army with a tw competitive list I was playing around with and they ate his zerks up. Wolves are probably the best out of the new codices, not by much though. If you want to win and win a lot with lists that are fun to build and fun to play I say wolves. Chaos has maybe one really competitive list and that's about it, not a whole lot of spark to them.
Thank you. If I was to start out small, say a 1000 p army, what would be good unit choices? I hear the cavalry are good, but what else? :)
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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If I were you I would look at some of the 1k lists out there and see what you like then make one of your own and put it up. We will help from there. I would give more but my iPhone is just about dead so I will leave it up to the other wolf list guys.
 

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Curiouser and Curiouser
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Thank you. If I was to start out small, say a 1000 p army, what would be good unit choices? I hear the cavalry are good, but what else? :)
With space wolves, the thunderwolf cavalary is much more viable at higher point levels imo so you can equip them to take advantage of wound allocation. In a 1000 point list I feel SW have great advantages over many other armies as some of our best stuff can be acquired for very cheap. My 1000 point list usually runs with units like this...

Rune priest w/ chooser of the slain

Wolf Guard w/ combi-melta and power fist (as many as I need to be pack leaders for grey hunters)

Grey Huntersx(8 or 9) w/ meltagun, MotW, rhino, and maybe a standard

Long Fangs with missile launchers

All these together will give you a rock hard 1000 point list.

Here are some great links to further explore space wolves

http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54588

A great tactica by lash machine here.

http://space-wolves-grey.blogspot.com/search/label/army lists

This is a great SW blog and I linked you to the part that talks about army lists. The site covers numerous aspects of SW however from tactics to modeling to painting.
 

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Lets put things into perspective here. No offense, just saying.

If you don't mind being hated for being another Space Marine player and you have a thing for wolves and space vikings then go for Space Wolves.

If you don't mind having an army almost as boring as the Necrons and you like having power armour without the Space Marine hatred then go for CSM (or rather Berzerker Oblits with Lash).

In terms of CC vs. shooting, both armies are effectively the same, since CSM rely on Oblits for anti-tank (though Zerkers can handle AV10-11 rear armour targets and DPs have a good chance even against LRs), while SW need their Long Fangs to pop vehicles (two Lascannons and two Missle Launchers for each is probably the best for this role). Make no mistake though, both armies are CC heavy and most of their damage is caused by their CC specialists, though Oblits and Long Fangs do kick ass, especially Oblits who always get their points back in a well-fought match, the big thing for them is to get double their points back.
 

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For close combat I personally like the World Eaters Chaos Space Marines themed army, but chaos marines themselves are pretty damn fun to play in a undivided concept. Space Wolves and Blood Angels have been recently updated and are quite powerfull, but they are damn loyalist so, they're not that fun. Nothing is compared to the warcry in the bloodgods name. So I personally go with Berserkers and well a undivided army but also the Wolves and Blood Angels are good.

Alse well, we have the Orks and the Tyranids and of course the Chaos Daemons as viable options for a melee army.
 

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Grand Lord Munchkin
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Ok..... if people are hating other people simply for being a SM player, which chaos is btw, you shouldn’t even give a damn about them because they are dipshits and ass holes. Just ignore them, they aren't worth your time.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I'm not so worried about other people hating me for playing what I want to play :p Perhaps I should just make my own warband of traitor Space Wolves! Pimp 'em out with some horns and spikes here and there, some chaos icons and paint them Black Legion style. Problem Fixed? :D
 

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Painting and converting space wolves to look like chaos marines? with expensive models mind you! Plus I don't think that much heavy conversion would be safe from nit-pickers, plus space wolves are loyalists and in the lore, NONE HAVE CONVERTED TO CHAOS (they are just too damned stubborn).
And there's a certain Bull of a rule that your army is poking at with a stick.

What You See Is What You Get.
Converting your Space-Wolves into traitors that carry the colors of the black legion, and many mutations coming in the form of spikes and horns. They would practically look like more like chaos marines then Spacewolves. And one uptight tournament judge might just throw the book at you and say something along the line like "Why are those chaos marines using stuff outside of their rule-book? What!? their Space wolves you say? well I don't see any space wolves here" Which may lead to a disqualification since you brought an ilegal list, or you don't own a codex for a "chaos marine" army.

Though this is worst case scenario.
A evil-themed space wolves army would be something unique, but lore and fluff reasons would work against such an idea.
The wolves primarch Lemman Russ (the guy the IG named their fabled battled tanks off of) was bested in battled by only one man, the emperor of man kind. In which the emperor had earned un-faltering respect and loyalty from russ and that was passed down to his legion. the wolves are one of the only legions that remain IMPOSSIBLE to corrupt because of this respect.
And the fact that the wolves would rather DIE then change their colors or dis-respect the only man who beat their primarch.

But that's fluffy stuff. If you want spikey black wolves, no one can stop you. Your friends and their friends probably won't care but tournaments may not be so harsh.

and don't even THINK of combining their rules (unless your friends want to get owned that badly)
Just think of it.. Khorn berzerker Grey hunters with furious charge, counter attack, wolf claws, wolf talismans and buffs from a runepriest. dear lord..

My advice, if you want evil wolves. Do the Luna wolves (aka black legion har har) or paint the space wolves with a mixture of SW gray, and black. but try to keep off the heavy conversion.
 
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