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Discussion Starter #1
I seem to see everywhere that any mention of a Night Scythe in tactics is that 'they're amazing' 'they are OP' etc. and personally I don't see it.

I regularly run one in most my lists, but I am starting to use it less and less because it is just not resilient enough - pretty much every time (vearing in mind I have used it in at least 10 games now) it has come on the board par about 2 (even then it was down to 1 HP with some other effect such as stunned or weapon destroyed) the scythe has been intercepted by a quad gun equivalent - even when I have managed to somehow hid it behind a ruin.

I get that they could potentially win a game with a last turn objective denial, but that is very hard to do when it barely survives 1 round on the board, and as a transport it does keep the units inside relatively safe compared to other flying transport. THere are lists out there which seem to use 2 or 3, which I am assuming would work, but one of the scythe must be there purely to act as the decoy for any interceptor? Now spending 200-300pts just to have 100pts destroyed straight away doesn't seem like a good tactic to me, and it only works if they all come in (and based on probablity one of them won't), otherwise you lose a second one when it come in later.

I personally don't believe that AV11 is resilient enough to survive as a flyer and don't et how people can rate the night scythe above the helldrake, which is not only a bitch to take down but have the ability to clear an objective in a one round of shooting.

Does anyone else seem to have this problem? Why is it that you would take a NIght Scythe?
 

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Does anyone else seem to have this problem? Why is it that you would take a NIght Scythe?
100 points, F/S AV13 until penned, transport that doesn't kill its troops when it blows up, S7 Arc gun with 4 shots.

You get that taken down by a Quad Gun? 6's to glance, and you lose it in a turn? Really??

....I friggin' want those dice.
 

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Night Scythes don't have Quantum Shielding do they?

But they are cheap and a dedicated transport which makes them a flyer able to be taken in larger numbers than any other army can.

Taken in ones and twos tho' they can be easily countered.
 

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Shit, I really thought they had quantum shielding. Comment retracted, that does really change their survivability and I can see how the QG ruins your day.
 

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They don't have Quantum Shielding, and technically they don't have arc guns either. However, they are the cheapest flier on the market, with weaponry that can glance other fliers to death easily enough, making them strong interceptors. Add in that they can get troops onto the board fast, and you can see their strengths.

AV 11 is the standard for most fliers. the Stormraven has 12s, but it's a flying tank, and the Heldrake has 12s, but it's a flying DEMON. Those comparisons, sadly, just aren't flattering and really not fair. the Night Scythe isn't a dedicated gunship. It's a transport with some really effective defensive weapons (and high strength defensive weapons, at that). The Heldrake's job is to kill things in a brutal and efficient matter, and costs 70 points more. At that point you should be comparing one heldrake to two Night Scythes, and it'd be more accurate.

Now as for running a lone Scythe, keep in mind that it fairs the same as running one of anything. if you have a single large tank in your army (or Wraithknight, or Riptide, yadda yadda) and you have weapons TASKED for killing it, then yes, it's an issue because you're just feeding those guns. Because of fliers like the heldrake, a Quad Gun or VeloTrackers are standard... and Night Scythes just have to rush the field and do what they got to do. If they can drop a squad of Warriors behind a land raider and watch it gauss the thing to death... then that's 100 pts well spent just on the tactical flexibility.

Comparing them to the Heldrake, however, is a poor comparison.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Shit, I really thought they had quantum shielding. Comment retracted, that does really change their survivability and I can see how the QG ruins your day.
If they were AV13 I really wouldn't be complaining :grin:

They don't have Quantum Shielding, and technically they don't have arc guns either.

At that point you should be comparing one heldrake to two Night Scythes, and it'd be more accurate.
That is a very good point hadn't really thought about it in terms of points like that. But then I guess it goes back to my point about multiple fliers, if they don't both come in on the same turn then you are effectively back to square one becasue each one can be interecepted separately.

What do you mean by arc guns? They have tesla destructors that arc if that is what you mean?

So what would you guys suggest as a tactic for a solo scythe then? Just rush up the field as far as you ca, drop the unit inside and then hope to god it survives? Thinking about it you could drop the unit then pick it up the next turn?
 

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and technically they don't have arc guns either
Tesla destructors have the Arc special rule and they're on the Night Scythe. Care to explain what you mean here? I know I confused Living Metal and Quantum Shielding, but this one is pretty black and white.

AV 11 is the standard for most fliers. the Stormraven has 12s, but it's a flying tank, and the Heldrake has 12s, but it's a flying DEMON.
Valkyries are AV12 front and side as well (unless my buddy has been wrong for a while), and they are predominantly transports. I'm not sure of their options, the one I have always faced has a lascannon and that's all. Not that this changes your point, it's just another flier with better armour.

So what would you guys suggest as a tactic for a solo scythe then?
If you run an ADL with a QG you could combine all those twin-linked S7 shots into some sweet anti air. Aside from that it's the only flier that can deploy troops as normal while still moving 24" or less, and the only restriction from 24" to 36" is that the squad can only take snap shots. You can get some decent squad placement out of that hopefully.
 

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They're cheap, they have a good gun that can ruin light vehicles, is ok against other non-AV 12 flyers, has INVASION BEAMS, and is a flyer. Definitely awesome when 6th Edition started and not to be trifled with even as skyfire becomes more common.

Concerning tactics for solo Night Scythes, the most obvious strategy is to kill things with Skyfire and/or Interceptor before they come in. Other units with formidable volume of fire and damage output, such as Warp Spiders, ought to be a high priority as well. Tau Pathfinders or things like Eldar Farseers (massed twin-linking) should also be targeted.
 
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I've never run a single scythe. I run five. - Maniacal laughter. -

They're flyers that troops can embark/disembark from without the flyer having to go into hover mode. They have a S7, 4(?) Shots Twin-Linked gun which gets a bonus 2 auto-hits on sixes. The transport capacity is quite big as well. I run them in a 2k list with 30 Immortals.
 

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Tesla destructors have the Arc special rule and they're on the Night Scythe. Care to explain what you mean here? I know I confused Living Metal and Quantum Shielding, but this one is pretty black and white.
My apologies, when you said Arc, I was thinking of the Monolith, which has Gauss Flux Arcs, as part of its name. I honestly forgot that the Destructor even gets the Arc rule.

As for the Valkyrie, it does have 12/12/10, and a single Multi-Laser, plus some single use rockets. Adding a single Lascannon increases it's strength substantially but removes most of it's quantity of shots. But it also doesn't have the accuracy of a Scythe, and unless you're using an IA Elysian list, cost you one of your Fast Attacks.

The Vendetta runs a far more impressive firepower output and only +30 points... I'd say that one's a stronger comparison.
 

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I honestly forgot that the Destructor even gets the Arc rule.
It's great, specially when there's a few units close together on an objective!

I run them in a 2k list with 30 Immortals.
6 man squads?

The Vendetta runs a far more impressive firepower output and only +30 points
So I have heard, but my buddy's moving away from IG and never made his Valkyrie into one. I was just thinking of other AV12 fliers. There's a lot of AV10/11 out there!
 

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well i think with all flyers the tactic is go big or go home...

One of anything is weak. 2 is a bit better but 3 or 4 of these can work well. this depends on pts level of games but i would say a minimum of 1 at 750 2 at 1K and 3 at 1.5K would work well. That isn't a great amount of points for what they bring.


however most of my opponents rarely take any anti air other than other flyers.

Also remember that you still have to draw line of site for intercept so i'm sure you must have some terrain that can help you there. LOS is drawn from gun to model even for flyers so you should be able to get a cover save if you place any terrain of 8 inch or so down.

Secondly at 100 points you get a cheap ass transport which can really dish out some shots. if your running one then try to find line blocking terrain or take out major sky fire threats in turn 1. if not try two or three if you can run proxies and test them and you will see the difference.
 

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It's great, specially when there's a few units close together on an objective!



6 man squads?



So I have heard, but my buddy's moving away from IG and never made his Valkyrie into one. I was just thinking of other AV12 fliers. There's a lot of AV10/11 out there!
Nah, I actually only run two Night Scythes. The other three are Doom Scythes. 3 units of 10 immortals. 1 sits in my ADL, two come in via Night Scythes (First turn of arrival one of these units switches out with the one in the ADL so my Overlord can move up the field).
 

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well i think with all flyers the tactic is go big or go home...

One of anything is weak.
*Heldrake*

I'm the guy who's constantly bringing down Falcoso's Night Scythe, and to be fair, I also run 2 Mortis-Pattern Dreadnoughts with Autocannons, soon to be Lascannons, so I've essentially got 4 Twin-Linked Icarus Lascannons and a Quad-Gun as my AA (I need that much to have a 50% chance of taking down my group's single, meta-destroying Heldrake).

But essentially, yes, run at least 3 and you'll see an improvement.

Midnight
 

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Nice job Midnightsun, gotta keep those toasters down, otherwise they will get right back up again.

*que Tubhumping by chumbawamba*
 

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The reason is simple. The Ghost Ark can only carry necron warriors.

The Night Scythe can carry almost any infantry in the necron list. Fast.

That is why.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
But the problem with that is that you are forced to drop the unit as far up the field as would be best otherwise the scythe is destroyed and they have to wait even longer before they then have to walk. If this is turn 2 that the scythe comes in then the unit you drop is going to be far away from any units that can support it meaning that it will be the attention of a lot of fire. However if you do use the multiple scythe tactic then I guess it would be a lot more workable as there would be multiple units that you would need to prioritize


*Heldrake*

I'm the guy who's constantly bringing down Falcoso's Night Scythe, and to be fair, I also run 2 Mortis-Pattern Dreadnoughts with Autocannons
I think u have needed one of the dreadnoughts interceptor shots once, the rest of the time the quad gun deals with it :( - they are generally used to take down another friend's helldrake

I have actually had a thought on a tactic to use when you have one scythe- take a destruc-tek with gaze of flame and set it off on the turn it comes in, whereas it is fairly impossible to stay out of 48" range on a normal sized board, 36" is a lot easier to do, and even if you can't there is the potential to get a 3+ jink save. Thoughts?
 

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But the problem with that is that you are forced to drop the unit as far up the field as would be best otherwise the scythe is destroyed and they have to wait even longer before they then have to walk. If this is turn 2 that the scythe comes in then the unit you drop is going to be far away from any units that can support it meaning that it will be the attention of a lot of fire. However if you do use the multiple scythe tactic then I guess it would be a lot more workable as there would be multiple units that you would need to prioritize
Cannot say I've had this problem, i always plan for a turn one or two drop anyway. :) At least I used to. I've shied away from flyers in general this time around.
 

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Ahhh the night Scythe! Such a twisted invention.

I personally think it would be easier to discuss the things that are bad about the scythe because frankly there are less things to type but what ever.

First is its point cost:
Only costing 100 points for a flying transport that has a 100% guarantee that your squad will not die if/when it falls from the sky is pretty nifty especially when the squad its transporting is not cheap. To put it into perspective seeing a Grey Knights ship fall from the sky with a full squad of purifiers in it can really sway the game into the opponents favor. That's a lot of points to be losing. Now being able to simply put your necron squad into ongoing reserves instead may suck because their mobility is gone BUT its a lot better then being deleted from the game.

Not to mention at that point cost you can take LOTS OF THEM!!!!


Second is its mobility:
Being able to move up to 24 and fire its all its weapons / deploy its squad is devastating. Having second player turn can absolutely foil any opponents chances of holding objectives.

Third is its gun:
The Night Scythe comes equipped with a "Twin-Linked Tesla Dystructor". This cheeky gun has no AP value but what really makes it great is its ability to compound a to-hit roll of a 6 into an additional 2 wounds (Maxing its possible wound total to 12 with one scythe!!!!). Being Str 6 means that even AV 12 vehicles/flyers are trembling! This gun also has the Arc special rule which means on a dice roll of a 6 it can potentially wound itself, friendly models, and/or foes within 6" of the target squad you initially shot.

The ways to play Scythes really depend on what your going for in the army. typically one on its own wont give you the results you want because it just like every other unit in the game could look great on paper, but at the end of the day it always comes down to dice rolls. Increase the QTY of scythes will directly result in an increase in productivity on the table.
I did the good old fashion:

SPAM / OVERWHELM / DANCE PUPPET / FLYING CIRCUS/ FRENCH BAKERY


At it proved super effective.

The scythe still has its set backs such as its inability to hover, and its inability to maneuver all that great (it needs vector dancer IMHO lol!) but over all this thing for its points is amazing!

My Necrons never leave home without one...or two...or 6 :p
Chaosftw
 
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