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In the novel by McNeill, (3rd book in the series in the Ultramarines Omnibus "The Killing Ground"), there was hinted at there being more to an Astartes than what they were currently at. By that, what I mean is:



What was being hinted at in the above mentioned spoiler?
 

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I haven't read the books, but I'll take a shot:

I'm guessing it has to do with Chaos. Marines steel themselves against the temptations of the Chaos gods. Because they refuse to accept their "gifts" they are less capable. Maybe there's some psychic block that can be tampered with. The Eisenhorn series had plenty of psychic manipulations of minds that made people forget certain things or overwrite their entire personality.
 

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The original SM fluff in RT said marines were recruited from the ranks of prisoners and feral tribes, and were made to be psychotic killing machines that should not be let near the ordinary populace. Maybe it's a hint at this potential berzerker inside all marines. They must keep self control at all times? Just a thought.
 

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Well if they spit acid imagine what would happen if they pissed on something.

Yeah, there's your "big secret" right there.

Fire piss.
 

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I haven't read the books, but I'll take a shot:

I'm guessing it has to do with Chaos. Marines steel themselves against the temptations of the Chaos gods. Because they refuse to accept their "gifts" they are less capable. Maybe there's some psychic block that can be tampered with. The Eisenhorn series had plenty of psychic manipulations of minds that made people forget certain things or overwrite their entire personality.
Or cause them to have an anerism when someone mentions a name.
 

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I don't think it's a "secret" at all. Given the context of the actual statement...

“Your mind is closed to us,” said Lalla, “like a fortress preparing to resist an invader.”
“I don’t understand,” said Uriel.
“You Astartes, your minds are as rigid and unbending as adamantium,” said Kulla, and Uriel knew that her mouth was not moving. Her voice was arriving directly in his thoughts without recourse to speech. “You are trained, conditioned and enhanced in so many ways, but your minds are like locked doors to a place of miracles and wonder. All the potential you are trained to access: memory, language, combat analysis, and yet your masters train you to close off the one part of your mind that might actually allow you to soar. You do not feel as others do, but we can open that door for you if you let us.”
“Stop it, Kulla,” said Lalla. “You know that’s not allowed. Leave him to his blindness.”


... I'm pretty sure they are referring to the effects of the psycho-indoctrination Astartes are under. The same process that gives them some resistance to mental influence (as implied by Lalla, above) also deprives them of much of their free will, imagination, etc. That is, an Astartes is defined as much by his mental fortitude as he is by his physical prowess. If he were able to think for himself, to make his own choices, to have an open mind (as Kulla implies), he would no longer be Astartes.

This, by the way, ties in with the consistent themes the fluff has introduced on the Astartes. On the other hand, Graham McNeill would be rather remiss in introducing a dark secret regarding the Astartes which is neither found anywhere else in the fluff nor even mentioned again in his own novel...

Cheers,
P.
 

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Having read Phoebus' extract, might it have something to do with psychic potential? All the indoctrination and psycho conditioning they undergo must increase their capacity to use more of their brain, possibly including their psychic potential.

I'm not saying that all marines are potential librarians, but that they are more likely to develop than an unaugmented human.
 

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Having read Phoebus' extract, might it have something to do with psychic potential? All the indoctrination and psycho conditioning they undergo must increase their capacity to use more of their brain, possibly including their psychic potential.

I'm not saying that all marines are potential librarians, but that they are more likely to develop than an unaugmented human.
There might be something to be said about that, as well. It occurred to me, and, don't get me wrong, I didn't dismiss it out of hand. I think it's a perfectly valid theory (no less than what I proposed), it's just I'd never seen anything like the sort expressed in any other fluff, before or since.

But it would be neat--perhaps something like that could be a catalyst for renegades overcoming their own psycho-conditioning prior to going rogue?

Cheers,
P.
 

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That'd be silly, I think. Why lock away psychic potential? They have a system to deal with psykers within their ranks--the Librarians. The Space Marine codex tells us that potential recruits are screened for psychic talent and those found lacking are killed. Why would they cover up any latent psychic potential? Particularly the Ultramarines who have pick of 8 systems worth of recruits?
 

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Well i think we should focus on one statement. "you do not feel as others do."

I think they're refering to the emotions that humans feel that they don't. Fear is one it forces ppl to much greater feats than they could otherwise manage. i know that space marines do those normally but to force a space marine to greater feats..... but i'm sure the lack of fear and the psycho doctrination would mess with their other emotions too...
 

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Because the Imperium fears psykers? And while the Space Marines have no problem recruiting psykers who fit certain criteria to become Librarians they wouldn't necessarily want someone who could *potentially* manifest psychic powers at some random point? :)

What happened in the "Salamanders" trilogy is the exception, not the rule--and even then, it came gift-wrapped with prophecy.

But again, it's just a matter of conjecture/theory.
 

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It could just mean that the space marines gene seed has the memorys of their primarch. In which the astates have managed to keep locked up in their mind.
 

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I'm going to guess that it is a block of their once "human" emotions, such as envy, love, compasion, and the like. these things tend to make a normal human second guess their actions, and constitute alot towards free will, not something you want in a super soldier. If they could love, it could pose a serious problem of longing, desire, and jealous feeling,and dicipline would severly suffer. These also tend to generate alot of fear too. But I wouldn't discount the fire piss either..............................
 

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^THANK YOU.

Great minds think alike my friend.

It probably has something to do with the way chaos whispers to erry'thing.

But then again space marines are brainwashed (Not the right word, but it get's the message across) into believing that chaos is evil and terrible and a big crap.

So I'm really not 100% on what it could mean.

Maybe it's explained in the book somewhere?

Try reading over it again a few times.
 

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Considering all the psycho-indoctrination the Astares go through, along with the physiological mutations, I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume their minds could be given an increased capacity for phychic potential, but have it locked away. I'm sure the Emperor would view the psychic ability of the Eldar as part of their keys to success and was making similar plans to improve humanity.

The entire point of the fluff is how the Heresy froze many of the Emperor's plans for humanity and locked the species in a virtual technological and cultural suspended animation, hence 10,000 years without any significant changes or intentional improvements. If the Emperor was intending on storming the Warp following the phychic evolution of humanity, he'd want to ensure his watch dogs had a leg up first.
 

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I still don't think it has anything to do with psychic potential. If there was any potential, they would have continued to test and make sure that the Space Marine hopeful was pure and could resist the temptations of the warp.

Space Marine chapters are very particular about their recruits and I'm pretty sure they follow the "if in doubt you are out" philosophy. Particularly the Ultramarines since their recruitment pool is so much larger.

If it was undetected talent that remained latent, how could they have locked it away without knowing it was there?

The entire point of the fluff is how the Heresy froze many of the Emperor's plans for humanity and locked the species in a virtual technological and cultural suspended animation, hence 10,000 years without any significant changes or intentional improvements. If the Emperor was intending on storming the Warp following the phychic evolution of humanity, he'd want to ensure his watch dogs had a leg up first.
Things have changed immensely since the Emperor was entombed into the Golden Throne. Namely the whole secular thing going out the window and the entire Imperium worshiping him as a god. The creation of the Council of Terra and all its parts (some like the Adeptus Minisotrum being added thousands of years after his entombment). Technology is in constant flux (both in losing and gaining new/old knowledge, which way it's headed more is up to debate).

And personally I think the Emperor was moving away from a psychic humanity. Or at least one free of the Warp (and thus the Chaos gods). His decree at Nikaea outlawed the use of psykers within the Legions (which was overturned sometime after he was entombed since we have the whole Librarian corps). The creation of the Webway would also reduce dependency on Navigators and astropaths.
 
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