Warhammer 40k Forum and Wargaming Forums banner
1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So there are always a lot of topics about "what if the HH never occurred", and i was thinking, what about the Eldar version of race changing event, what do you guys think would've went down, would the Eldar put down the emp and his imperium, etc?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
843 Posts
Hard to say, especially considering the Fall of the Eldar also ended the Dark Age of Technology, when mankind was arguably at its greatest. Plus, with the end of the DAoT was ultimately what lead to the rise of the Emperor and the Imperium. So if the Fall didn't happen, Slaanesh's birth would not have happened (or at least the violent way it was) and the galaxy would not be plagued by the severe Warp Storms of the Chaos God's birth, hence the DAoT would have come to an end and the Imperium of Man would never come to be, at least as we know it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,624 Posts
We don't know what human civilization was like during the DAoT. We could have encountered the Eldar and opened trade with them, similar to what happen when Humanity met the Vulkans in Star Trek.

Hell the eldar could have evolved to pure psychic beings by M41, leaving an empty universe for humanity to inherit.

Or Humanity and Eldar could have fought a massive war until intolerable losses were taken on both sides.
 

·
Deathwing Commissar
Joined
·
1,846 Posts
Akatsuki13,

Was it not the case that the birth of Slaneesh actually FREED Terra from the Warp Storm that had encapsulated our solar system, and thus allowed the Emperor to begin the Great Crusade?

I was always under the impression that the end of the Dark Age of Technology came with the beginning of "Old Night"/the Age of Strife, which lasted several millennia in its own right, and ended, as stated above, by the Fall. I had understood the onset of the Age of Strife and the Warp Storms to have been caused by the proliferation of psykers among the widespread Human race. Lexicanum, on the other hand, claims that it was the slow birth of Slaneesh that caused those, with its birth cry finally causing the Eye of Terror to form and the other Warp Storms to go out.

Which is the case?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
843 Posts
As far as I know, the Birth of Slaanesh unleashed the Warp Storms that ultimately shattered the human empire of the DAoT. The Storms for centuries until they finally dissipated (for the most part as there are Storms that are said to be still be raging from that time) allowing the Emperor to launch the GC. In fact, I vaguely recall Horus Rising hinting at that happening. Though just involving the sudden coming of the Warp Storms and their gradual dissipation.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,977 Posts
Slaanesh`s growth caused the warp storms over several thousand years. But when she was born their energy was spent and they disappaited.

I believe the source for this info is in one of the codexes. Possibly DE...?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
Slaanesh`s growth caused the warp storms over several thousand years. But when she was born their energy was spent and they disappaited.

I believe the source for this info is in one of the codexes. Possibly DE...?
Na I have that codex and the only place they talk about Slaanesh is when they are talking about how the DE invented a way to keep themselves from her and how she influences them. More likely CD or CSM I would think.


On the OP, Humanity would be squashed, like a bug. On a further note, not sure if there is a reason behind it in fluff, but why, if Eldar could see so far into the future, didn't they see what the Imperium would become and snuff them out when they were masters of the universe?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,172 Posts
Na I have that codex and the only place they talk about Slaanesh is when they are talking about how the DE invented a way to keep themselves from her and how she influences them. More likely CD or CSM I would think.


On the OP, Humanity would be squashed, like a bug. On a further note, not sure if there is a reason behind it in fluff, but why, if Eldar could see so far into the future, didn't they see what the Imperium would become and snuff them out when they were masters of the universe?
i thought in fulgrim, the farseer tried to do just that only to have fulgrim and his sons turn on him, granted it was under the power of the Lauren sword which in itself was a weapon of Slannesh, but the eldar did try and warn them of what was occuring.

op seems that the Eldars fall paved the way for humanity to expand itself further and reunify themselves, had it not happened then the GC might not have and neither then in itself the HH might not have happened
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
i thought in fulgrim, the farseer tried to do just that only to have fulgrim and his sons turn on him, granted it was under the power of the Lauren sword which in itself was a weapon of Slannesh, but the eldar did try and warn them of what was occuring.
Yeah Eldrad tried to warn the Emp. through Fulgrim but Fulgrim was alsready corrupted, but that's not what I meant. What I meant was why didn't they see it when humanity was still, like, neanderthals.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,514 Posts
On the OP, Humanity would be squashed, like a bug.
I really don't think it would be that one-sided. I'm not saying the Eldar couldn't beat Humanity, they most likely could. But it would probably be pretty brutal. Remember, humanity was at the height of its technological powers and had enough powerful tech that many alien races signed non-aggression treaties with them rather than fight them. Not to mention that the human population would very likely have been enormous. Think about it, this is the original human empire that initially spread the species all over the Milky Way.

Yeah Eldrad tried to warn the Emp. through Fulgrim but Fulgrim was alsready corrupted, but that's not what I meant. What I meant was why didn't they see it when humanity was still, like, neanderthals.
Probably because, as we've established, the Great Crusade and thus the Horus Heresy was only made possible by the Fall. The Eldar were probably so sure of their dominance and never thought that they would ever reach a point like the Fall, and thus, if they had seen it, hadn't considered that such an event like the HH would ever be able to occur.
 

·
Bane of Empires
Joined
·
5,131 Posts
Hard to say, especially considering the Fall of the Eldar also ended the Dark Age of Technology, when mankind was arguably at its greatest.
Well not exactly. The turbulence of the warp is what caused the Age of Strife (and therefore the end of the Dark Age of Technology). To be technical anyway. :)

We don't know what human civilization was like during the DAoT. We could have encountered the Eldar and opened trade with them, similar to what happen when Humanity met the Vulkans in Star Trek.
It's almost certain that one of the alien species that humanity maintained "non-aggression pacts" with, was the Eldar Empire.

Or Humanity and Eldar could have fought a massive war until intolerable losses were taken on both sides.
The Eldar Empire was by far the most supreme force in the galaxy. If they so wished, they could have destroyed the human federations, even with humanity being at the peak of their technological achievements.

I had understood the onset of the Age of Strife and the Warp Storms to have been caused by the proliferation of psykers among the widespread Human race. Lexicanum, on the other hand, claims that it was the slow birth of Slaneesh that caused those, with its birth cry finally causing the Eye of Terror to form and the other Warp Storms to go out.

Which is the case?
It's generally seen as the coalescing of Slaanesh within the warp that causes the warp turbulence. The rise in the manifestations of human psykers is most likely a result of the increased warp activity throughout the galaxy (caused by Slaanesh).

On the OP, Humanity would be squashed, like a bug. On a further note, not sure if there is a reason behind it in fluff, but why, if Eldar could see so far into the future, didn't they see what the Imperium would become and snuff them out when they were masters of the universe?
It is by no means that simple. The Eldar don't know the future.

OT: The Fall of the Eldar is the underlying factor to most of Imperial history. The descent of Eldar soceity into anarchy is what indirectly caused the Age of Strife and the end of the Dark Age of Technology. The Fall itself is what allowed the Emperor to initiate the Great Crusade and forge the Imperium. If the Eldar never "fell" then potentially the galaxy would be as it was during the Dark Age of Technology, well perhaps not politically but at least in essence. Dependent of course though on other factors, like the Emperor and the Chaos Gods. The Fall not occuring though pretty much changes the basis of everything 40k.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,172 Posts
The Eldar were at the hieght of thier powers when their fall happened and Slannesh came screaming into the universe, thier hedonistic ways brought that about so imho the eldar fall had to happen in order for the greater powers of the universe to move on and perhapes teach the eldar a lesson that they had been too arrogant to even understand at the time and thus such arrogance caused thier downfall and such excesses not only (I believe correct me if i am wrong baron or COTE or anyone else) killed the majority if not all thier own gods but brought into creation a god/goddess whom the eldar fear above all else and above all others.
Similary the Emperor was forging ahead with his new Imperium intent on bringing humanity to thier rightful place (as he saw it) as the natural inheritors of the universe. His technomagic created sons (can't seem to find the right word for the primarchs creations) and in turn thier gene enhanced sons paving the way to light humanity and it was a grand gesture.
However as in all things, the bigger they are the harder they must fall. The Eldar ruled the waves as it were and thier society was grandious and thier technology far beyound anything ever seen at the time.
The Great Crusade was the human equivelent and as they got more influential and more powerful the universe powers stepped in once more and destroyed all that had been achieved from the inside out.
I think in the long and the short of it is what the universe gives it takes away. The balance restored and things needed to be put back into some order unfortunatly that order is ten thousand years of warfare
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,480 Posts
The Eldar (if the fall had never happened) would be able to squash humanity like a bug, because they were the top dogs back then. The eldar had machines to do everything for them and humanity's empire at the time was kinda small compared to the eldar's. I reckon they would have had a hard time killing the emperor though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
I reckon they would have had a hard time killing the emperor though.
1 uber-psyker is no match for millions of nearly as powerful uber-psykers.
 

·
Bane of Empires
Joined
·
5,131 Posts
1 uber-psyker is no match for millions of nearly as powerful uber-psykers.
It should be noted though that by reading between the lines throughout the established lore, it seems clear that the Emperor is much more powerful than any of the Eldar. Or at least 'modern' Eldar (as opposed to 'ancient' Eldar (those who stood against the Yngir and their Legions) or Eldar of the Empire pre-Fall).

Take into account that the Emperor is the single reason why the galaxy hasn't already been 'engulfed by the Realm of Chaos'. His power is beyond comprehension. In any hypothetical total war between the Eldar Empire (pre-Fall) and the Human Federations of the Dark Age of Technology, the Emperor would have no doubt played a major role. Although it should be noted he wasn't in any known position of dominance or rulership among humanity during that age, so he would have at least initially not have been able to play a major political role in the conflict. Being as powerful and apparently as fiercely protective of his race as he was however would have no doubt resulted in him playing a major role in the conflict.

Regardless though it has always been a subject of intrigue for me; how the Eldar (Craftworlders and otherwise) view/perceive the Emperor. And whether or not they realise his importance to mortals as a whole, not just humanity. I can only currently recall seeing one minor reference in Codex: Eye of Terror, where Eldrad refers to him as the human's 'corpse of a seer'. That besides the Dark Eldar (and C'tan for that matter) finding it highly amusing that humanity worships a corpse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
330 Posts
They probably view him as another nuisance, and I can see them scorning the Imperium with something like, "You worship a corpse, you Idiots!"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,514 Posts
It should be noted though that by reading between the lines throughout the established lore, it seems clear that the Emperor is much more powerful than any of the Eldar. Or at least 'modern' Eldar (as opposed to 'ancient' Eldar (those who stood against the Yngir and their Legions) or Eldar of the Empire pre-Fall).
I don't think you really need to read between the lines all that much. The Emp has some truly ridiculous feats. For example, I've never heard of a single farseer coming even close to being able to force their will on the minds of a 100,000 astartes simultaneously like the Emperor did the in The First Heretic. That was actually kinda fucking scary how easily he could render such a powerful force completely useless.
 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top