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I was just wondering what my SM army consist of, if I want to beat my friend's Tyranid army. Here's what my army is so far, just tell me what should be put in:
. HQ
SM Commander w/ Stormbolter, and powersword
SM Terminator Chaplain

. ELITE
SM Dreadnought w/ twin-linked Lascannon, Missile Launcher
GK Terminators

. Troops
SM Tactical Squad x2

. Fast Attack
SM Assault Squad x2

Rhino
 

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The only tip I can give is stay out of combat. for the fast attack, get a few landspeeders so you can shoot and the 'nids and then shy away when they get to close.
 

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Hrm, seems to me that this would do better in the Army Lists section. Ah well.

As for what to take against Tyranids, it really depends on a few factors.

a) What is your friend taking in his lists? Even if you're not completely sure any information that you can give us in this regard can potentially be extremely helpful.

b) What kind of army are you playing? We know that you play Space Marines, but are you using Traits? Do you use an alternate Codex like Black Templars or Space Wolves? Does your army (and model collection) focus on one particular aspect of the game (moving, shooting, assaulting)?

c) What models you have available or are willing to pick up.

If you can answer even some of these questions I'm sure we can help you a lot better than we would otherwise.

That being said, as a general rule you want to stay out of close combat with Tyranids unless it's happening on your terms (i.e. you're assaulting a unit that is far from support or that you can take out in a single go). Maintaining the ability to move is also important, as many Tyranids are extremely fast and can be on top of you as early as the first turn if you deploy badly or are extremely unlucky. You'll also need a good amount of firepower. Razorbacks are probably your best friends when it comes to dealing with Tyranids as it allows you to both keep your units mobile and pump out a decent amount of fire (especially with the twin-linked heavy bolter option).

Weapons with a high rate of fire like heavy bolters, assault cannons and even autocannons are extremely useful against Tyranids as the small and medium creatures will suffer greatly when forced to endure fire from these weapons. However, it would be extremely unwise to load up entirely on heavy bolters. Monstrous Creatures are extremely resilient to small arms fire, so you'll want at least a few missile launchers (if not lascannons) to ensure that you can bring down any big nasties with a minimum of effort.

Therefore, we can sum up the general tactics when playing Tyranids.

a) Remain mobile.

b) Be sure to have the right weapons for the job (i.e. heavy bolters or Whirlwinds for the small creatures, heavier weapons for the larger ones).

c) Avoid close combat unless you have a considerable advantage.

Hope that helps a bit,

Katie D
 

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Personally, I've never found Assault squads to be that effective vs. 'Nids. If you kit them out with flamers, you may be able to seriously thin out a swarm and then get the charge on them, but I gotta second the Red Thirst: You don't want to get caught in cc with them. Even if you massacre one swarm, you'll probably end up getting pulled under by the ones behind it. The killed:lost ratio is almost always going to favor the Hive Mind. If you really want to use the jumpers, I'd use them for hit and run attacks with flamers, only assaulting lone units after frying a good portion of them. Use both squads in tandem and you may be able to neutralize entire squads that get separated from the main body.

My own sucesses against the 'Nids have come using large numbers of Heavy Bolters, Assault Cannons, Whirlwinds against the swarm at range, while using Lascannons and MLs against the 'Zillas. Consider investing in a 10 man 4x HB dev squad, some Tornadoes, or a Pred. Destructor(HB sponsons). I really like the pred in this role as you can drop back 6" and still get 8 shots. If you can get ahold of and field a Leman Russ Exterminator do so. Especially if you can do it with Space Wolves driving.

Finally, what are you putting in your Tac. squads? On the GKs?
 

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Well, I guess I should post more quickly, otherwise I look unoriginal. :fool:
*chuckles* Don't worry, you made some points of your own. For example, I never thought of how poorly Assault Squads could perform against Tyranids.

Thanks for the food for thought. :victory: I'll have to keep that in mind in the future.
 

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I have an assault squad in my SM tourney list and I didn't find it to be all that bad. If they are loaded out with plasma/powerfist you could chase down an MC or with flamers charge into hormagaunts or whatever.

The important thing in a tourney list is to include some anti-horde things like bolters, HB, flamers, etc.
 

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Assault marines were one of the few things that worked for me last time. I'd also avoid taking 6 man squads if he is fielding alot of models, I'd go for 8 with HB and flamers. Another thing I found worked well was a Predator Destructor, ac high enough strength to damage tough creatures, HBs good for mowing down the little uns. THose and Landspeeders. I keep 2 speeders, one with AC/HB and the other MM/HF. Both work REALLY well
 

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It may sound insane, but fighting Tyranids in close combat can actually work quite well. The trick is to charge them, rather than get charged. The little ones tend not to have high-strength attacks unless they've been seriously beefed up, and then they tend to cost as much as Space Marines without half the protection themselves. A turn of shooting to soften up the smaller bugs followed by charging in in the subsequent turn usually works pretty well, just to be safe. Dealing with the big Tyranids takes a slightly different approach. I tend to just feed Space Marines into the meat grinder and let the sergeants' power fists handle things. Occasionally, a chainsword will bring a Carnifex down, since they're quite slow.

The general practice seems to be using a Whirlwind(s) to slow down the swarms, but I've always thought that if you were going to use a template weapon like that, you might as well use something that can stand up to some retaliation. While a Vindicator is about twice as expensive points-wise as a Whirlwind, its superior armor keeps it safe from quite a few things the Tyranids are likely to hit it with. And, just to top that, you're a hell of a lot more likely to wound a big tyranid with a demolisher shell than a whirlwind missile.
 

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I certainly will agree that Marines match up well in individual assault situations vs. Tyranids, but I think that on the whole, you shouldn't rely on CC to win the day. In my experience, (of course YMMV) Tyranids are tough to deal with one squad at a time. Far too often the squad you used to charge will wipe out whatever you hit and then get charged next turn by the full weight of the swarm. For me the conditions conducive to a charge against Tyranids break down something like the following:

1. You're charging.
2. You're hitting a unit that you're reasonably sure you can handle with minimal casualties(I don't voluntarily get into CC with 'Stealers).
3. The unit you're charging is far enough away from the main body of the Tyranid army that you won't get hit with a charge next turn.
4. Exception to #3- Sacrificial Lamb vs. Big Nasty . If by charging a small squad w/ Vet. Sarge PF into the main body you can knock out the Tyrant or Fex, go for it. Also, if it will buy you time to redeploy your shooty stuff. Be ready to lose that sqaud though.

Generally, against a quality Tyranid player, they'll try to give you as few of those opportunities as possible. Take them when you can, but I try not to rely on them. Finally, a caveat: I'm the sort of player who always prefers to shoot. I may simply be way too risk averse.
 

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Use lots of flamers and heavy bolters.

And also, it's important that you keep your units close to each other, as you most porbably are massively outnumbered. It's while your your marines are strong as hell, they can be in massive trouble if they drown in the 'nid tide.

And stay mobilbe too. Include some razorbacks.
 

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Multiple shot weapons and some nice ap2. I would not reccomend Missiles launchers as 99% of nid players buy extended carapce for tyrants and fexes, go lascannon. I would reccomend getting a force weapon librarian in there, great against fexes. I would drop the assualt marines and the rhino. Get heavy bolter and lascannon devastators.

The most important thing when fighting tyranids if fire discipline. Know when to shoot at what, what to shoot at it. That carnifex may look scary, but remember there slow. Those hormagaunts with the genestealers behind them will be on you next turn ready to carve you up.

We really need more info, points, what type of nids he runs, so on.

Btw, flamers are basically useless against nids as nids are too fast for them to be useful.
 

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First, avoid short-ranged weaponry such as flamers in anything except a suicide squad, and if you do take them, take a lot.

As an example, the only time I would consider flamers against tyranids is four flamers on a devastator squad in a rhino, with no upgrades in sight. As cheap as possible, and designed for one purpose: Drive up right next to the biggest, nastiest swarm (Hormagaunts are best, Genestealers work too), burn the lot of them, and then admit the fact that that squad is now going to DIE, and very quickly. If you intend to take flamers, they needs to be mobile, otherwise the Tyranids will be charging before the flamers ever get in range.

Second, if you have spare points then don't be afraid to add in some more rhino's. It doesn't matter if they'll ever get used to move squads; they add a few extra bolter shots, and a wall of rhino's can be used to stall enemy squads.

Neither of the above are things that should be done unless the points used literally are spare; if you can think of a better use for some points, these units should be the first to go.

Second: Range and rate of fire is the must. Pack in as many weapons with a range of 24"-48" as you can. Not every tactical squad needs heavy weaponry; often, they can get by perfectly well with bolters.

If you take a sergeant, he must a power fist and is there to slug carnifexii in the chops. Do not even bother taking the upgrade elsewhere; you won't be taking many Morale tests except in combat, and the extra attack won't help in many other places.

Go light on the high-strength, low-AP weapons. The things these will be going for are flying tyrants, normal tyrants, rigged-out Carnifexes, the occasional Zoanthrope and that's pretty much it. Almost all of these things can be dealt with, if need be, by massed small arms fire. A Zoanthrope, for example, has T4 and only needs to roll a pair of 1's against bolter fire to keel over and die.

Most of the big monsters will take time to reach your battle line; that means you will have multiple turns to pummel them and thus do not need multiple squads of heavy weaponry to do so with. The only exception to this is the flying tyrant; that must be nailed as quickly as possible. If your opponent does not take one, you can probably get away with a single devastator squad filled with lascannons or missile launchers, if that. If he does take one, take at least one squad of those weapons, possibly two, and make the flyrant their priority.

Do not underestimate the power of a dreadnought. Two dreadnoughts get you two assault cannons for cheaper than the five terminators necessary to do the same, can add in a heavy flamer (about the only time such weaponry is useful) and can hold up a large squad of hormagaunts for eternity, often being surrounded to the point that a squad of genestealers can't get in base contact to rip it to pieces.

Go light on the characters. People can advocate librarians for fex-killing, cahplains to make a counter-assault unit viable, and all manner of other things. All you need is one Master with some token weaponry to keep your army from running. A librarian can technically kill a fex, but you're maxing out at six attacks on the charge (which you may not get), four hits... You might get the six you need, you might not. However, if you don't the fex will then stomp on the librarians head, and if you do the librarian is probably in the middle of a lot of other things with claws. In fact, the librarian might well meet a perforated end before he even meets a Carnifex, considering the rest of the Tyranid army will be ahead of the things.

That's my advice, at any rate.
 

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Hrm, seems to me that this would do better in the Army Lists section. Ah well.

As for what to take against Tyranids, it really depends on a few factors.

a) What is your friend taking in his lists? Even if you're not completely sure any information that you can give us in this regard can potentially be extremely helpful.

b) What kind of army are you playing? We know that you play Space Marines, but are you using Traits? Do you use an alternate Codex like Black Templars or Space Wolves? Does your army (and model collection) focus on one particular aspect of the game (moving, shooting, assaulting)?

c) What models you have available or are willing to pick up.

If you can answer even some of these questions I'm sure we can help you a lot better than we would otherwise.

That being said, as a general rule you want to stay out of close combat with Tyranids unless it's happening on your terms (i.e. you're assaulting a unit that is far from support or that you can take out in a single go). Maintaining the ability to move is also important, as many Tyranids are extremely fast and can be on top of you as early as the first turn if you deploy badly or are extremely unlucky. You'll also need a good amount of firepower. Razorbacks are probably your best friends when it comes to dealing with Tyranids as it allows you to both keep your units mobile and pump out a decent amount of fire (especially with the twin-linked heavy bolter option).

Weapons with a high rate of fire like heavy bolters, assault cannons and even autocannons are extremely useful against Tyranids as the small and medium creatures will suffer greatly when forced to endure fire from these weapons. However, it would be extremely unwise to load up entirely on heavy bolters. Monstrous Creatures are extremely resilient to small arms fire, so you'll want at least a few missile launchers (if not lascannons) to ensure that you can bring down any big nasties with a minimum of effort.

Therefore, we can sum up the general tactics when playing Tyranids.

a) Remain mobile.

b) Be sure to have the right weapons for the job (i.e. heavy bolters or Whirlwinds for the small creatures, heavier weapons for the larger ones).

c) Avoid close combat unless you have a considerable advantage.

Hope that helps a bit,

Katie D

well said.

I alluded to this in another thread as well, the best anti-horde weapons is a rapidfiring bolter from a marine squad that disembarks from a rhino. Even better, tanks shock them first and add a flamer template to that equation.

Even rhinos on their own are invaluable against the lesser nids in corralling them and forcing them to take the long way around before they are able to tie up your units for the bigger bugs behind.

Rhino mounted squads, attack bikes will heavy bolter (turbo boost away if need be) Landspeeders with Heavy Flamers/Heavy Bolters.

I don't like making tailored lists, but I always include some missile launcher Devs for all purpose work. If you want you can always grab another squad of Heavy Bolter Devs and add a Whirlwind if your really desperate...

Remember, the smaller faster gribblies are the key. They will charge up to get to grips with you as fast as possible to rob you of the ability to shoot the Nid army to pieces. Make sure you have some maneuverable units such as A-Bikes to nails infiltrators or assaulter hiding behind terrain as they advance.

Static shooty will not cut it against a skill nid player. You need the ability to cut off those fast units before they reach your lines.

If building a firebase, you can grab a few small tac squads as speed bumps to protect your static firepower from assault.
 

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If you have the points ally in some grey knights. Their stormbolters work quite well against swarms. And their nemisis force weapons aren't things to be ignored either
 

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@ Imrix... how do you put 4 flamers in a dev squad?

Otherwise, some very good points made by all.

But the important things for us to know are - what you're facing, and what you've got.

If you're up against swarms and swarms of gaunts, rippers and stealers, the answer is heavy bolters, storm bolters, assault cannons, flamers or heavy flamers, massed bolter-fire, (frag) missile launchers and vehicles packing the above (ie generally low-penetration weapons capable of chucking out templates/multiple shots).

If it's a carnifex-heavy list, go for armour-piercing weapons - plasma (pistols, guns, cannons), lascannons, meltaguns, krak missiles etc. They're also generally slow, so suicide squads with powerfists are viable.

You don't say what's in (or how big are) you tac squads. 'Small squads for fire support, big squads for combat' is a cliche, but makes some sense.

But you generally dont want to get into combat anyway.

Alternatively "don't do what I do" should see you clear, I generally end up pulverised by nids.

Hope this summing up helps...

 

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I seem to remember being able to exchange devastator heavy weapons for special weapons back in 2nd ed, but I could be wrong. Obviously this is a rule that no longer applies.
 
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