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Was Angron retarded? (in context of comparison of his comparative kin)
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Angron's Nails are like a mechanical parasite geared towards nothing but drawing out rage and rewarding bloodshed. They are also incompatible for a primarch's physiology, and were slowly killing him as time went on.
Yes, he fits the bill of retardation, but could still retain enough sense to show a variety of emotions towards his crew and Legion, and even bait Argel Tal with words.
Not sure what point you're trying to prove here, Lux.
Yes, he fits the bill of retardation, but could still retain enough sense to show a variety of emotions towards his crew and Legion, and even bait Argel Tal with words.
Not sure what point you're trying to prove here, Lux.
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I think Lux seems to be confusing Retardation with Autism, possibly Aspergers.
That, or he's quite possibly bat shit insane. I do love his threads though. Endless chuckles watching people rage about him.
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That, or he's quite possibly bat shit insane. I do love his threads though. Endless chuckles watching people rage about him.
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I think the problem with this thread is that there is a potentially serious topic hosted by one that has had a history of perversing certain topics.
To answer your question, there is no doubt that Angron became retarded. People have to understand that most people who are retarded are not born that way or at least the retarded genes are not developed until a few years into their upbrining. People can become retarded due to external factors, like accidents, drugs, etc... Angron was clearly made retarded because of the Butcher's nails destroying his brain functions.
The retardation... I think is most likely ignored when describing them because its not what fantasy players want to call one of the coolest chaos legions and warriors in lore and gaming. So thats understandable. The Butcher's nails are the cause, however, it stops there in the mentality of most gamers.
Its also interesting to note the differences between Bezerkers (Warriors with the Butcher's Nails) and other warriors and daemons of Khorne. There is a difference when we read descriptions of Khorne Daemons compared to those of the Bezerkers. In fact, that might be the reason why the mark of khorne for gaming purposes has different benefits than bezerkers. The simple, "they are warriors of Khorne, what do you expect," is not necessarly true.
For lore purposes, it doesn't sit well with me how they developed Angron. Before it was an angry Primarch with the need of vengence. Though some of the qualities still inherit Angron today, it really stems from the Butcher's Nails. Primarchs and Astartes are suppose to be vastly superior both physically and intellectually compared to average Joe. The fact that the World Eaters, were so flawed and tactically very weak, undermines this truth. We have astartes that can memorize thousands of pages of technique from the Guilliman's Codex, to a bunch of brutes charging heavy weaponry probably knowing they are going to die.
To answer your question, there is no doubt that Angron became retarded. People have to understand that most people who are retarded are not born that way or at least the retarded genes are not developed until a few years into their upbrining. People can become retarded due to external factors, like accidents, drugs, etc... Angron was clearly made retarded because of the Butcher's nails destroying his brain functions.
The retardation... I think is most likely ignored when describing them because its not what fantasy players want to call one of the coolest chaos legions and warriors in lore and gaming. So thats understandable. The Butcher's nails are the cause, however, it stops there in the mentality of most gamers.
Its also interesting to note the differences between Bezerkers (Warriors with the Butcher's Nails) and other warriors and daemons of Khorne. There is a difference when we read descriptions of Khorne Daemons compared to those of the Bezerkers. In fact, that might be the reason why the mark of khorne for gaming purposes has different benefits than bezerkers. The simple, "they are warriors of Khorne, what do you expect," is not necessarly true.
For lore purposes, it doesn't sit well with me how they developed Angron. Before it was an angry Primarch with the need of vengence. Though some of the qualities still inherit Angron today, it really stems from the Butcher's Nails. Primarchs and Astartes are suppose to be vastly superior both physically and intellectually compared to average Joe. The fact that the World Eaters, were so flawed and tactically very weak, undermines this truth. We have astartes that can memorize thousands of pages of technique from the Guilliman's Codex, to a bunch of brutes charging heavy weaponry probably knowing they are going to die.
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Ckcrawford, I am glad that you are able to see beyond the association of identity some have with Angron and or the the mythos itself.
Similarily I truly do believe that Angron was retarded, to what degree remains subjective as there is no way to administer the appropriate test to measure accurately.
But in comparison to his kin, Angron's level of intelligence and analytical processing along with abstract thinking was far below the average. Intelligence levels that fall below a certain point of the average are medically considered retarded.
Some people seem to have an issue with Angron being retarded due to them associating pieces of their own identity with ideals and values that angron represents, thus they would not want to they them self be retarded by extension of association of identity with angron. It really comes down to a status of ego, via association of ones self with a fantasy character that embodies aspects of what they want to be. In this case people just want to eliminate the aspects of the character they idealize that do not match with what they want to be, such as retardation.
ckcrawford you did a good analysis there, I am glad some can see the silver lining to the topics I make at times. To be able to engage in analysis of the varying qualities of the mythos, without limiting the discussion due to emotional associations with fantasy characters
Similarily I truly do believe that Angron was retarded, to what degree remains subjective as there is no way to administer the appropriate test to measure accurately.
But in comparison to his kin, Angron's level of intelligence and analytical processing along with abstract thinking was far below the average. Intelligence levels that fall below a certain point of the average are medically considered retarded.
Some people seem to have an issue with Angron being retarded due to them associating pieces of their own identity with ideals and values that angron represents, thus they would not want to they them self be retarded by extension of association of identity with angron. It really comes down to a status of ego, via association of ones self with a fantasy character that embodies aspects of what they want to be. In this case people just want to eliminate the aspects of the character they idealize that do not match with what they want to be, such as retardation.
ckcrawford you did a good analysis there, I am glad some can see the silver lining to the topics I make at times. To be able to engage in analysis of the varying qualities of the mythos, without limiting the discussion due to emotional associations with fantasy characters
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For the purposes of lore, it wouldn't be a good idea (as a kindness to World Eaters fans) to identify Angron as "retarded." Though I blame the author's for this depiction of Angron, the new information on Angron has in some ways destroyed the reputation of Angron. Some will say that certain aspects such as honor may have actually made him more likable, however, because Angron is a primarch and because the World Eaters are a legion I believe it undermines what Primarchs and Astartes actually are.
In fact with the new information on Angron, it seems unlikely that Angron would have been able to launch such a successful Bezerker Crusade. Though it ultimately failed, he may have actually been the biggest Primarch threat after the Heresy.
People can chose to look at Angron and the Bezerker World Eaters the way they like. People like to look at them as mindless robotic killing machines. I know I'd like to think of my army of World Eaters like that, but its kind of hard not to admit they aren't retarded. They are not robotic if you really think about it because they are hateful and angry. The robotic sense of killing undermines what Khorne is all about. Khorne is a Chaos God that feeds off the thoughts and emotions of anger and hate.
In fact with the new information on Angron, it seems unlikely that Angron would have been able to launch such a successful Bezerker Crusade. Though it ultimately failed, he may have actually been the biggest Primarch threat after the Heresy.
People can chose to look at Angron and the Bezerker World Eaters the way they like. People like to look at them as mindless robotic killing machines. I know I'd like to think of my army of World Eaters like that, but its kind of hard not to admit they aren't retarded. They are not robotic if you really think about it because they are hateful and angry. The robotic sense of killing undermines what Khorne is all about. Khorne is a Chaos God that feeds off the thoughts and emotions of anger and hate.
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Really not sure where you're getting that from. No one in this thread has actually disagreed with you over Angron being mentally damaged and/or challenged. They've disagreed with your assumption that he always was mentally challenged, and that it was somehow designed into him by the Emperor, because it's baseless. I've disagreed with the term retarded because it's not the right term. But no one's actually argued that Angron doesn't struggle mentally.
I also think it's a mistake to think that just because Angron was not on the same level as the other Primarchs he was of below average intelligence. He's still a Primarch after-all.
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This Topic made me laugh.
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