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I think the implants did some damage to his brain. Even in the book "Betrayer", he was dying from the implants according to Lorgar...which is part of the reason why Lorgar wanted to make Angron into a deamon.

When it comes to battle tactics the world eaters were more than berserkers . They had some sense of battle formation but compared to other legions they were probably allot
more raw but again I think this is because each of the world eaters also had implants.
 

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"Given that that term isn't used anymore, and the term that has replaced it (General Learning Disability) is only diagnosable in adolescence, you really aren't."

-I take it you are not a practitioner in the field of mental health nor licensed? It would make sense seeing as your statement is entirely false, the diagnosis of retardation is still used around the globe to this present date (5/23/2013). Additionally, it is used for all ranges depending upon their intelligence assessment score, depending on their score they are diagnosed with a degree of retardation. Where do I derive my answers from? Years of field experience being a licensed clinical therapist.

"Wait, what? Red eyes are a sign of cognitive problems? Since when? The pigmentation of your eyes is completely separate from the cognitive development and processing abilities of your brain. "

-Again this is entirely inaccurate, retardation is merely the diagnosis not the cause. Many variables can bring about a degree of retardation in an individual, ranging from genetics, to physiological predispositions, injuries, or exposure to certain substances. Physical trauma, even physiological predispositions can cause what is known as Hyphema, this is when bleeding is occurring in the anterior chamber of the eye between the cornea and the iris. Why is this seen in some patients of retardation? Most often it is seen in patients that have suffered trauma to the cranial region, which is why it is a comorbid effect as I stated earlier. They are not exclusive to one another, but when a myriad of symptoms are presented together in conjunction to diminished cognitive ability and low intelligence score it is likely a degree of retardation.


"Unable or unwilling? This is also seen in pragmatic and practical individuals, such as Perturabo whom I would call one of the most intelligent Primarchs."

-Again you are entirely inaccurate, pragmatism is merely a paradigm. Pragmatism or practicality does not correlate with intelligence, however ability to conduct abstract thinking and to the degree that person is able to do so is correlated to intelligence. Angron lacks all ability to contemplate and or process any level of abstract thinking that goes beyond the level of physicality, he was unable to even process his interaction with Russ beyond the two of them physically hitting one another. Repeatedly Angron demonstrates the inability to understand concepts conveyed to him through intangible conveyances, allegories, contextual variables, all are entirely non existent to him.


"Like "I'm-The-Most-Perfect-Thing-Ever" Fulgrim, or "Boo-Is-Me" Lorgar, or "Damn-I'm-Soo-Clever" Magnus or half a dozen other Primarchs you mean?"

-All humans display symptoms of "disorders/maladptions", it does not mean they are likely to be diagnosed with one. Individuals need to meet a certain number of symptoms for a disorder, and sustain those symptoms for a set period of time chronically (generally) to even garner a diagnosis. Your comment here means very little in regards to what we are discussing, Angron unlike the others is displaying high degrees of comorbidity among a myriad of symptoms for retardation.



"I haven't seen this in Angron, indeed I see quite the opposite. Angron craves, at all times, to be causing violence. This is a single subject and he is almost obsessively fixated on it. That he would rather be causing violence than doing anything else, and therefore that other things are less interesting to him, is a sign of serious emotional problems but not a sign of cognitive issues."

-Angron isn't fixated on violence as a concept, he is fixated on an escape from his lack of ability to cope and process what his core issues are. He is unable to process the abstract situation that he is in intellectually, due to lacking the intellectual intelligence to rationalize his emotions to begin with. Angron's locus of attention is greatly dispersed, which is due to his train of thought and ability to form coherent blocks of memory being disrupted from a lack of proper sleep (Betrayer).


"As well as in people who are angry. Angron is always angry thanks to the Nails and is therefore often twitchy."

- Anger does not produce the facial and muscle twitches that are described in the book, furthermore anger does not produce nerve misfirings to the degree that Angron displays in such a chronic manner. The chemicals produced from anger inherently do not cause or bring about synapse degradation in such a chronic manner, however where this is seen is in people with damaged lobes of the brain, often temporal of occipital.
 

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-I take it you are not a practitioner in the field of mental health nor licensed? It would make sense seeing as your statement is entirely false, the diagnosis of retardation is still used around the globe to this present date (5/23/2013). Additionally, it is used for all ranges depending upon their intelligence assessment score, depending on their score they are diagnosed with a degree of retardation. Where do I derive my answers from? Years of field experience being a licensed clinical therapist.

-Again this is entirely inaccurate, retardation is merely the diagnosis not the cause. Many variables can bring about a degree of retardation in an individual, ranging from genetics, to physiological predispositions, injuries, or exposure to certain substances. Physical trauma, even physiological predispositions can cause what is known as Hyphema, this is when bleeding is occurring in the anterior chamber of the eye between the cornea and the iris. Why is this seen in some patients of retardation? Most often it is seen in patients that have suffered trauma to the cranial region, which is why it is a comorbid effect as I stated earlier. They are not exclusive to one another, but when a myriad of symptoms are presented together in conjunction to diminished cognitive ability and low intelligence score it is likely a degree of retardation.

- Anger does not produce the facial and muscle twitches that are described in the book, furthermore anger does not produce nerve misfirings to the degree that Angron displays in such a chronic manner. The chemicals produced from anger inherently do not cause or bring about synapse degradation in such a chronic manner, however where this is seen is in people with damaged lobes of the brain, often temporal of occipital.

And you are a psychiatrists....dear god tell me where, so I can start a petition to get your doctorate/license revoked.

Red eyes can be causes by a burst blood vessel, my friend had one. Conjunctivitis, at least in dogs. Blepharitis.

Facial ticks can be caused by sever stress and anxiety, trust me with that.
 

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Interesting, but a lot of characters often have this. Cardinals, venerable Techpriest, and other old, rich, pompous characters are often portrayed as retarded with age. Guess the Primarchs are no exception?
 

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I would love to see the first person that said this to Angron.......

As for being "retarded" i think not.... psychotic yes but retarded no.....
 

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Angron's fall to Chaos was a result of his having gone full retard. Everybody knows you don't go full retard.


Never go full retard. You don't buy that? Ask Konrad Curze, destruction of Nostramo. Remember? Went full retard...went home empty-handed.
 

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i think Angron was damaged after being captured by those who hammered the nails into his skull, decades of killing to live another day is bound to have had some effect on the psyche, it was almost like he was in a constant state of post traumatic stress disorder, and being seperated from his brothers and sisters at the time of thier deaths, even if it was for reasons of being rejoined with his legion, was against his will and had a long term effect on him too.

I do not believe he was retarted, there were times he did show some clarity of thought and for a little while it seemed that Khan and the Captain could reach him, he even showed compassion for the human hot wired into her console, so he had that in him, he just did not show it very often.

There is only so much one can do with a character that is preordained to become the son of Khorne but ADB did it well enough and has made Angron more then what is written on paper. I think his trains of thought were not helped by the hammering of the nails, and it certainly was not helped by those brothers who saw him and his legion as nothing more than cannon fodder, in fact i believe that in Angron and the World Eaters case it was break only in cases of extreme armageddon.
 

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Retarded/demented/deformed/red-eyed stoner/snott-nosed punk, he certainly competed outside the realm of the Special Olympics. Aside from that one arguable fight with Russ, Angron was one of the greatest warriors of the Primarchs. That's what makes the 'retarded' label weak for me, even in context to his brothers... like having a UFC champion who gets criticized after the fight for not booking his flight home correctly.
 

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Years of field experience being a licensed clinical therapist.
I really hope this isn't true. Given that you incorrectly use the term retarded in your posts and also incorrectly use the term "comorbidity" later on in this one, as well as all the other crazy theories you've made in the past.

Again this is entirely inaccurate, retardation is merely the diagnosis not the cause.
If, as you state, "retardation" can be diagnosed from red-eyes than red-eyes are a potential sign of cognitive problems. Which is what I said. How is that even remotely inaccurate?

Why is this seen in some patients of retardation? Most often it is seen in patients that have suffered trauma to the cranial region,
Cranial trauma... like having a hunk of metal nailed into his brain you mean?

Pragmatism or practicality does not correlate with intelligence,
Exactly my point.

Angron lacks all ability to contemplate and or process any level of abstract thinking that goes beyond the level of physicality,
Does he lack the ability or does he simply not make use of it? Angron's personality is not such that he would be prone to introspection or abstract thinking. But that doesn't mean he's dumb, just straight-forward.

Angron isn't fixated on violence as a concept,
Sure he is. He enjoys fighting, both as a release and as a concept, and seeks to do it as much as possible. He doesn't engage in violence because he's frustrated with his own lack of mental abilities but rather because it is something he wants to be doing.

Angron's locus of attention is greatly dispersed, which is due to his train of thought and ability to form coherent blocks of memory being disrupted from a lack of proper sleep (Betrayer).
So is the fact that he can't sleep properly a symptom or a result of his being "retarded"? I've never heard of it being either, which means you just shot your own argument in the foot.

The chemicals produced from anger inherently do not cause or bring about synapse degradation in such a chronic manner
They do if they're present in larger amounts and over a greater time than would be normal. Given that the Nails are categorically stated to amplify both the physiological intensity and duration of the angered state they would also, over time, cause a breakdown in certain cognitive processes.


Though really I don't know why I'm arguing with you. The general consensus is, as it generally is, against you Lux and it's not like any kind of logic on my part is going to change that maze of paradigm shifts you call a mind, so I suppose it's all wasted effort. Oh well, gotta kill time somehow.
 

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"I really hope this isn't true. Given that you incorrectly use the term retarded in your posts and also incorrectly use the term "comorbidity" later on in this one, as well as all the other crazy theories you've made in the past."

- The application of the word in the previous post of which I deployed it in, is viable; comorbidity is either the presence of one or more disorders (or diseases) in addition to a primary disease or disorder, or the effect of such additional disorders or diseases to the primary diagnosis. Your perception of events seems to highly inaccurate, perhaps you should review your previous post.


"If, as you state, "retardation" can be diagnosed from red-eyes than red-eyes are a potential sign of cognitive problems. Which is what I said. How is that even remotely inaccurate?"

-I question your very nature of perception, and often wonder if the primary reason you respond is not to enjoy intellectual analysis of the primarch Angron...but rather merely to engage in aggressive bouts of verbalized "logic" to satisfy your own fulfillment. If you could please show me where I stated that red-eyes are a potential sign of cognitive problems? However I did clearly state that in patients who are diagnosed with a degree of retardation, one symptom that is at times present is Hyphema. This is when there is bleeding in the anterior chamber of the eye between the cornea and the iris. This bleeding into the anterior chamber of the eye is called a hyphema. I also clarified this is often seen in patients diagnosed with retardation that suffered physical trauma to the cranial section.

"Cranial trauma... like having a hunk of metal nailed into his brain you mean?"

-Have I ever stated that the cranial trauma is not a cause or factor in the cause of a degree of retardation? I merely stated that Angron is likely retarded. How in anyway does this take away from my statement?



Exactly my point.



"Does he lack the ability or does he simply not make use of it? Angron's personality is not such that he would be prone to introspection or abstract thinking. But that doesn't mean he's dumb, just straight-forward."

-Being retarded, and straight-forward are two entirely different concepts, Angron has displayed the inability to process abstract thinking or the ability to process large quantitative scenarios. Such as battle logistics, or simple numbers, losses for his forces, strategy, non physical verbal ques, allegories, all of this is entirely alien to him. It is made very clear throughout all of Betrayer and other text that Angron is not even aware of the concepts that others attempt to communicate with him. It is not that he is not trying, for he is very much trying to understand Lorgar when he is explaining Russ to him. He just is unable to mentally process abstract thinking, and anything that is beyond the scope of his own self, of which once again is often seen in patients that never progressed beyond certain stages of psychological growth.

The very ability to process and relate the world and its concepts, beyond their own self as the locus of control is something every human child goes through during the developmental stages of growth. Angron being retarded however, would explain why he did not. He became retarded at a young age, a child, thus his brain never experienced the progression beyond the stage of "awareness of self".



"Sure he is. He enjoys fighting, both as a release and as a concept, and seeks to do it as much as possible. He doesn't engage in violence because he's frustrated with his own lack of mental abilities but rather because it is something he wants to be doing."

-In betrayer Angron states very clearly, the sole reason he fights is as a way so he can "sleep", so he can escape the pain of living. There is nothing else to be really said here, he doesn't enjoy killing, he enjoys the escape from reality and suffering that he derives from doing the killing



"So is the fact that he can't sleep properly a symptom or a result of his being "retarded"? I've never heard of it being either, which means you just shot your own argument in the foot."

-Where do you derive your statements from? Lack of sleep means he is never able to process memory correctly, when humans sleep they go through several stages. Of which the brain process memories and experiences that you experienced in "Blocks". Without the processing of these blocks, accessing these memories or more importantly accessing their neural pathways becomes highly erratic for the brain to do so.


"Though really I don't know why I'm arguing with you. The general consensus is, as it generally is, against you Lux and it's not like any kind of logic on my part is going to change that maze of paradigm shifts you call a mind, so I suppose it's all wasted effort. Oh well, gotta kill time somehow."

-You choose to respond, for you had something to project, some thing to prove if not others then to yourself. Every response is a validation of ones of motivations in one way or another.
 

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Over time the World Eaters descended into the same killing frenzy as their father, they did not like thier father, they were the last legion to be reunited with thier Primarch and by the time they were reunited with him, he was flawed.

He might have been handsome once, he might have stood as proud as Horus or any of the others but he had been treated no better than an animal, something kept for sport for the majority of his youth, of course this is going to change how he sees the world.

He was not "educated" in the ways of Gulliman or Horus, he was not revered as a world leader like the Lion or Sanguinius, hailed as a saviour like Fulgrim or Lorgar, he was nothing more than a comodity to be used and abused as the rulers of his adopted world saw fit.

They saw how strong he was, he had killed the Dark Eldar after coming out of his cryo tube, they saw he was a warrior and so they hammered metal into his head that made him more violent.

The only bonds he made that gave him a sense of family and belonging was to other gladiators, men and women that he had fought alongside in the ring and in the uprising. He was a 40K version of Spartacus, the honour and promises made of dying with them was taken away from him when the Emperor transported him onto the Conquerer and then left him.

After killing some of the World Eaters hierarchy, it took Khan to prove to him that the War Hounds were of his genepool. His. Father. Abandoned. Him.....in his eyes that was the second insult. He takes him from his family before the biggest battle of thier lives, then he was shut in a room and his father told his sons deal with him....no wonder he had no respect for the Emperor.

No Lux Angron was not retarted as you so calously put it, he had issues, severe issues that shrinks today would call abandonment issues to the extreme. By the time he was reunited with his Legion he was a killing machine, its all he knew he knew of nothing else.
His respect had to be earnt and some earnt it, some did not. Those that stood thier ground before him, they earnt it, Khan and the Captain for one.

Mentally impared might be another better word to use, but not retarded, it was said that at the start he would listen to briefings, he would contribute but after time all he wanted to do was kill. He was the perfect avatar of Khorne, in the end he did not care whose blood he spilt, only that it flowed.

Which seeing as the gods of Chaos had a hand in the scattering of the Primarchs to start with, maybe this was already pre-ordained, maybe Khorne decided long ago that he was going to have Angron as his and sent the Pod to Nuceria knowing what would happen.

whatever it was Angron was flawed yes, but only in the way that unlike his brothers, he was a slave something he vowed he would never be again.
 

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comorbidity is either the presence of one or more disorders (or diseases) in addition to a primary disease or disorder, or the effect of such additional disorders or diseases to the primary diagnosis.
Comorbidity refers to two or more conditions that are unrelated except in that they occur in the same patient. You were suggesting that the two were very directly linked.

If you could please show me where I stated that red-eyes are a potential sign of cognitive problems?
to attribute to him a plethora of physically and behaviorally displayed symptoms that are often seen in retarded individuals, mostly through brain damage in various lobes.

The red eyes,
This is your first post. "Physical signs" of "retardation" and your first example is red eyes. Not bleeding eyes, not Hyphema but red eyes.

Have I ever stated that the cranial trauma is not a cause or factor in the cause of a degree of retardation? I merely stated that Angron is likely retarded.
I suppose you never did state that. However in my opinion "retarded" and brain-damaged are very different things, if you were a therapist I think you'd agree. "Retarded" to me means either Learning Disability (the term that replaced it) or, more generally, mentally impaired, both of which are inherent in the person and not the result of external trauma. It's pretty obvious that the Nails messed Angron up really bad, if that's all your trying to get across then congrats on the Captain Obvious, if not then I disagree.

Angron has displayed the inability to process abstract thinking or the ability to process large quantitative scenarios. Such as battle logistics, or simple numbers, losses for his forces, strategy, non physical verbal ques, allegories, all of this is entirely alien to him.
It is made clear that these things are not alien to Angron originally, in his youth he was very capable of this kind of thinking. That's why he was able to create, organize and lead a pretty darn successful rebellion. He is capable of both mental and emotional reasoning in his initial discussion with Kharn. He is accepted into the Primarchs as an equal. It is only later, as the effect of the Nails (first) and his fall to Khorne (second) become more pronounced that these things begin to slip from him. Look at the change in Kharn in the original trilogy to see an even more pronounced change caused by Khornate worship. Betrayer is set after his fall, he is just too far gone at that point but it's not who he was.

Where do you derive your statements from? Lack of sleep means he is never able to process memory correctly, when humans sleep they go through several stages. Of which the brain process memories and experiences that you experienced in "Blocks". Without the processing of these blocks, accessing these memories or more importantly accessing their neural pathways becomes highly erratic for the brain to do so.
Right. None of those things either cause a person to become "retarded" in anything approaching a medical sense, nor are they caused by being "retarded". They do however explain why he would be having trouble processing information properly (sleep deprivation) without him being retarded. You are arguing that he is retarded. Therefore bringing up something that shows that he needn't be retarded is counter to your argument.

You choose to respond, for you had something to project, some thing to prove if not others then to yourself. Every response is a validation of ones of motivations in one way or another.
I choose to respond because I have nothing better to do right now. And also because...


AND because now I have 1,000 posts!
 

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sometimes Lux's theories about 40K Cannon are like those of an inmate at a high security hospital.....totally bizzarre and whilst they do not make a whole lot of sense to anyone else....makes sense to them.
 

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First the term "retarded" is a bit archaic and can't be applied to a Primarch. Angron was FULLY aware of all he did and voiced intelligently his reasons for not only the bloodshed and slaughter but also his motivation for siding with Horus as well as his aversion to the Emperor. In case you forgot, why don't we go down the family tree here and list some other interesting behavioral flaws of his brothers:

1.Horus: Narcissistic egomania amplified by an insecurity over his relationship with his father.
2. Night Haunter: Where to begin.......
3. Magnus- Lancelot complex mixed in with his obviously over inflated ego of his abilities to master and understand the warp.
4. Sanguinius- Besides the fear that would the Emperor would discover his imperfection, he was cursed with a genetic imperfection that caused his sons to become vampires.
5. Leman of the Russ- Puts on façade for his men by speaking in their tongue and being a wannabe Viking (see Ahriman's impression of Russ). He also hooks his men up with a genetic flaw that if they can't control they turn into werewolves.
6. Corvus Corax- After the dropsite massacre, he takes it hard and turns into a recluse and makes what looks like a suicide run into the Eye of Terror.
7. Perturabo- He an asshole.
8. Rogal Dorn- Has massive guilt over Siege of Terra incident where he puts himself into a damn pain glove. From that he comes up with the brilliant idea of going on a nearly suicidal mission against the Iron Warriors that costs both sides dearly. Later dies on a suicidal charge on the command deck of a Black Crusade ship. Basically he was suicidal.
9. Lion El'Johnson- Paranoid schizophrenic incapable of trust due to a child hood spent being hunted in a triple canopy forest by chaos beasts which drives his sons to rebellion.
10. Alpharius/Omegon- Older brothers picked on him which gives him an inferiority complex leading to his actions on Deliverance lost.
11. The Emperor- Last but not least. The embodiment of this family madness as all 20 primarchs make up his characteristics or at least some of them. This Heresy series has portrayed the Emperor as: an asshole(in regards to Ferris Manus), a liar (Mechanicum), a martyr (Outcast Dead), a horrible father (Angron), a caring father (Corax), a really horrible father (Night Haunter), a complete asshole (handing Magnus a damned legion), and a man of principles above shadow games (Nemesis). We aren't even done and these are just some of his characterizations.

So when you call Angron retarded, take a step back and realize when you come from fucked up and crazy genetic stock, you'd be a few beats short of a song as well.
 

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The problems the Primarchs have don't have much of anything to do with genetic code. It's almost always a case of "nurture" as opposed to "nature" with them, sometimes with a healthy dose of the Warp, to boot. The type of nurture and upbringing they received developed their characters and behavioral patterns. Note that while all Primarchs retained much of the culture they grew up with, it did not prevent them (well, almost all of them) from becoming viable parts of the Imperium.

Specifically -

1. The Lion:
He is a recluse (see his behavior and personal dwellings in 'Fallen Angels' and 'Savage Weapons'), but that is to be expected given his initial upbringing in Caliban, during which he was completely alone. Mike Lee's description perhaps alludes to him not being able to "read" people, but that is hardly evidence of paranoia or schizophrenia. A paranoid schizophrenic would not be able to command a Legion effectively to begin with, something that the Lion has shown he is able to do (to say the least).

3. Fulgrim:
Fulgrim has a perfectionist complex when we are first introduced to him, but that is hardly surprising for anyone in a position of such power and authority. Furthermore, it is qualified for us that his early behavior is quite different for the narcissistic, egocentric complex that he develops after his contact with the Laer. His friendship with Ferrus Manus is further evidence of that.

4. Perturabo:
'Angel Exterminatus' hints (in my humble opinion) that Perturabo may have initially been tainted by the Warp - note his ability to see the Eye of Terror when no one else can. Beyond that, what you have is an individual whose moral compass is gradually, brutally whittled down as his gifts for building and creation are "perverted" (if you will) toward destruction and warfare of the cruelest and most unrewarded kind.

5. The Khan:
Classic nurture vs. nature. He was found by a nomadic, tribal, violent warrior culture and became just like the people who adopted him.

6. Russ:
Although 'Deliverance Lost' revealed that all Primarchs had been designed at the genetic level for certain tasks, Russ is perhaps the only one whose genetic makeup might have trumped whatever "nurture" he received, regardless of where he landed.

7. Dorn:
Adopted by a stable, civilized stellar empire, Rogal Dorn lives his life much the same way. He builds, he fortifies, he leads, he organizes.

8. Night Haunter:
He lands on a planet full of killers, rapists, and other assorted criminals. Not surprisingly, he develops into a merciless, predatory creature with an absolutely broken code of ethics.

9. Sanguinius:
He is adopted by one of the tribes on Baal Secundus that aren't vicious, mutated killers. He is venerated as a savior and as a divine creature. He repays them by protecting them and fighting off their monstrous enemies. His behavior pattern largely continues that way.

10. Ferrus Manus:
He grows up on a planet defined by a Darwinian complex - the strong survive, the weak die. Not surprisingly, he values strength over all other things, trusts his own artifices and power over those of others, and has a hard time "letting people in" and making friends.

12. Angron:
Need we go into this? Within days of arrival, is almost murdered, and is then captured by slavers who beat machines into his brain meant to make him into a berserker. Decades of horrific abuse ensue. Only moral motivation has to do with killing human beings.

13. Guilliman:
Call it, "Dorn Part 2."

14. Mortarion:
Lands on a planet whose human population is oppressed by sadistic, murderous xenos. Is forced to slave away under said xenos until he escapes and and leads humans to rebellion. Only way to fight the war is a grueling, brutal slog against conditions guaranteed to kill people. Not surprisingly, develops a penchant for poisons, toxins, and a macabre look.

15. Magnus:
Lands on a planet of psykers, swiftly discovers he is more powerful than anyone there. Absent any real authority figure, embarks on an exploration of not just his own powers, but of the defining forces of the universe. Chaos, probably as part of its own game, hides its worst face from him, which only gives Magnus a greater sense of comfort. When the Emperor warns him of "horrific dangers", what exactly has Magnus seen to lead him to believe his father?

16. Horus:
Far from a narcissistic egomaniac, the Horus we initially see is a rather balanced, genial, and benevolent individual - as warlords given command over superhuman warriors, fleets of starships, armies of humans, and a mandate to conquer the galaxy go. His worst behavior prior to his fall is his frustration with brothers he thinks can't stand to see him as "primus inter pares". It's not until after Erebus puts his plan in motion - and specifically after he is poisoned and tempted in a Warp trance - that Horus starts going downhill.

17. Lorgar:
Complete nurture over nature. Lands on planet of religious zealots, becomes a religious zealot searching for the meaning of it all.

18. Vulkan:
Lands on planet of hardy survivors whose society is based around smithing, fire, anvils, hammers, flames, magma, etc. I give you one chance to guess what he and his Legion develop into.

19. Corax:
A life hiding from vicious oppressors and tyrants leads to a penchant for stealth and hit-and-run tactics. Huge surprise!

20. Alpharius and Omegon:
I reserve the right to withhold comment until we know more about them. I think it goes without saying, though, that 'Legion' heavily implies there never was a "little brother" complex. The Alpharius and Omegon we see in that novel would never have given a damn about Guilliman pointing at his banners... and the Guilliman we see in 'The First Heretic, 'Rules of Engagement', 'Know No Fear', and 'Betrayer' does not seem like the kind of guy who would point at his trophy case to mock another Primarch.

Thus, with the exception of a couple of Primarchs, we can see that it was events during the Heresy or external factors during their upbringing that led to any Primarch having what could be termed deviant behavior. Absent the Warp, botched cyber-surgery, and being stuck in hell-worlds, it's a fair assumption that every Primarch (or at least almost every one of them) would have arrived stable and well-adjusted... as far as conquerors of a galaxy go, anyways. :wink:
 
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