[Hasnat]

Usually, you'd see a 40-man Saurus unit in a fairly large game (say, 2000 points or higher). In fact, people don't usually take Saurus in such huge units.

However, if someone decides to take a 40-man Saurus unit at 800 points (yes, 800 points!) with a 200 points character limit then can anyone suggest reliable ways to kill it with an all-comers list?

 

[MidnightSun]

Pit of Shades or Purple Sun of Xereus are my best guesses, make the most of their low initiative.

Midnight

 

[Silens]

Some tough but cheap unit to charge the front and then flank them with something much harder hitting. What army book are you using?

 

[Tim/Steve]

Lots of options here.. depending on what you've got.

Combat- if you a have a more powerful unit then use it, that works for when you have to use augs/hexs to rebalance the fight in your favour... not my desired method.
- flank them with a 'strong' unit but one that couldn't take them on in a fair fight. If you have the ranks to break their steadfast then all you need do is a few wounds and you should break them: 3 ranks, flank and charge gives you +5 res over them (assuming both have standards) and you should only be facing 8 attacks max which shouldn't do more then 3 wounds to anyone. Do a couple of wounds and those lizards should break.
- double flank them. Send in weak units to either side and don't die... you will be unlikely to win, but you'll also be unlikely to die anytime soon. It should keep them contained for a while, wither for you to bring up something stronger to flank with or to win by other means.

Magic- a pit of shades could rip that unit apart while a purple sun could quite easily massacre 80% of that unit in a single casing... either way get a bit of luck and they'll instantly be reduced to nothing more then a minor nuisance.


Shooting- um yeah, you might be fucked if this is all you have. Probably best to resort to the tactics below...


Or use my proffered method: avoid them entirely.
I like to play by the idiom: "don't do what the enemy wants you to". If they put a strong, slow combat unit on the table opposite you then they want it to get into combat... so don't let them. Its slow enough that you could just sit at the back of the board and avoid it for 4 turns without doing anything. Put a bit of effort into it and avoiding an M4 unit for 6 turns is rarely much harder, especially if you have a couple of units that they can't expose their flanks to.
If they've brought something with 40 saurus in it (or somehting equally nasty) then the other 2 units that they muct have on the board will be VERY weak, so go kill them. That'll net you the +100vp you need for the win with no need to defeat their uber unit.


In small games I value manoeuvrability much more highly then strength: next month I'm going to a WFB doubles tourny with an even more jokey army then normal: a goblin gunline. But a big part of my list is a big wolf rider unit: its too strong for anyone to allow to charge their flanks so any uber unit will have to face it each turn and with fast cav and M9 I can just dodge out of their charge arc each turn... until I fail animosity and charge straight to my death (I'm taking goblins... winning will be a bonus).

 

[Hasnat]

Thank you for your suggestions, the out-moving one is the most interesting because any flanking unit with have to be decent to survive 8 S4 attacks.

What about facing two units of 20-24 Saurus at this points level? Same strategies?

 

[Silens]

Alternatively just avoid them and shoot at them to whittle them down. An ellyrian reaver heavy High Elf army, for example.

 

[Tim/Steve]

Thank you for your suggestions, the out-moving one is the most interesting because any flanking unit with have to be decent to survive 8 S4 attacks.

not really: they're only WS3 so most elf types (WS4+ T3 5+ sv no parry) would be taking 2.2 wounds a turn.
A unit of 25 HE spearmen flank charging a 4*10 hoard of saurus would take about 2.2 wounds, but would inflict about 2.2 wounds back (if saurus have shields)... that means the fight comes down to their 3 ranks, flank and charge. End result would be a Ld3 cold blooded test for the saurus who would be at serious risk of massacre and very unlikely to pass both the break and reform tests (if they did get lucky and passed their break test chances are they would have another, almost as bad one to face the next turn).


2 blocks of 24 saurus at 800pts would be pretty evil as you are unlikely to face many of the units that could just pile straight through you and with 2 mutually supporting units it'll be very hard to flank charge either with a strong enough unit to beat them outright (and all but impossible to charge both flanks simultaneously). This would force people down the road of charging with their strongest units and hoping for the right spells to get through to turn the fight in their favour which is a pretty risky strategy at the best of times.

 

[Hasnat]

Combine that with Diadem of Power on a Level 1 Skink Priest (strong magic defence for 800 points battles) and that will make a tough Lizardmen army to beat. Here's what I might be up against:

Skink Priest, Level 1, Diadem of Power
24 Saurus Warriors, Standard Bearer
24 Saurus Warriors, Standard Bearer
11 Skink skirmishers
1 Salamander, extra skink

...or perhaps...

Skink Priest, Level 2, Diadem of Power, Ruby Ring of Ruin
20 Saurus Warriors, Full Command
20 Saurus Warriors, Full Command
10 Skink skirmishers
1 Salamander, extra skink


Both lists seem quite good. If you had to face one of them with an all-comers, which would it be and why?

 

[Tim/Steve]

The first is better: full command is normally a waste in low points games, especially since it doesn't look like the priest will hie in the saurus units. That makes the champs there only for +1 attack and the musician is fairly pointless anyway.

24 is a much nicer number for a unit as well as you get the options of being 6 or 8 wide while 20 can't really go wider then 6, which means you've got less options.

 

[Hasnat]

The first is better: full command is normally a waste in low points games, especially since it doesn't look like the priest will hie in the saurus units. That makes the champs there only for +1 attack and the musician is fairly pointless anyway.

24 is a much nicer number for a unit as well as you get the options of being 6 or 8 wide while 20 can't really go wider then 6, which means you've got less options.

Indeed, but a particular concern would be ethereals. The only reliable way of destroying them is to distract them with the Skinks and the Salamander, which buys the Saurus two turns of movement. However, for this tactic to work, I must hide the Skink Priest with my Saurus unit because the Skinks are needed as chaff and I cannot afford to concede 190 VP - but this only applies when facing a VC player fielding two 5-man Hexwraith units though an ethereal Black Coach with Fly isn't pleasant either.

Is my concern about Ethereal unit at 800 points justified? Or am I creating a storm-in-the-tea-cup situation?

 

[Vaz]

Don't actually kill them.

Kill one of the two lone units (I'm guessing Sallies?) for First Blood, then just don't get in combat. Win by "not winning".

Big combat blocks don't work unless they have some form of shooting, speed or denial; with so few points left on the table, and the requisite for minimum units, you will win on VP's.

He CANNOT actually win. Unless you're playing gunlines; in which case you deserve getting fucked in the ass, and even then, you may just win.



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[Tim/Steve]

first blood is 40k..


Ethereals are a pain to a few armies but generally I would ignore them. The threat of daemons and the need to take a high level mage to try to up magic defence to keep them alive means few will run a strong unit of ethereals in small point games.
You might find a few random bases of spirit hosts which are still very annoying but they aren't a threat to your saurus blocks with their +3 static combat res... but might hold you up for a turn or 2.

If you do face a big unit of ethereals then you can limit the damage a little by hiding the priest in the saurus... but generally you'll lose. All armies have that sort of list that they probably aren't going to beat, its a risk you take and is unavoidable.

 

[Hasnat]

Don't actually kill them.

Kill one of the two lone units (I'm guessing Sallies?) for First Blood, then just don't get in combat. Win by "not winning".

Big combat blocks don't work unless they have some form of shooting, speed or denial; with so few points left on the table, and the requisite for minimum units, you will win on VP's.

He CANNOT actually win. Unless you're playing gunlines; in which case you deserve getting fucked in the ass, and even then, you may just win.

I agree. An army such as Skaven or Vampire Counts can field horde-size units very cheaply and have enough points for powerful hammer units and/or shooting support. This is why Tim/Steve's suggestion of having 2 24-man units is better.

first blood is 40k..


Ethereals are a pain to a few armies but generally I would ignore them. The threat of daemons and the need to take a high level mage to try to up magic defence to keep them alive means few will run a strong unit of ethereals in small point games.
You might find a few random bases of spirit hosts which are still very annoying but they aren't a threat to your saurus blocks with their +3 static combat res... but might hold you up for a turn or 2.

If you do face a big unit of ethereals then you can limit the damage a little by hiding the priest in the saurus... but generally you'll lose. All armies have that sort of list that they probably aren't going to beat, its a risk you take and is unavoidable.

The most ethereal-heavy force I have come across is a Vampire Counts army with 2 5-man Hexwraith units... downright nasty if played well. However, I know that such lists will have little else of threat to 48 Saurus, so I fed the Hexwraiths with Skinks and the Salamander, and proceeded to charge and decimate the horde given it would take two turns for the Hexwraiths to charge me in the rear and even so, I'd still win if faced with a skeleton horde and ten hexwraiths.