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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ive been drawn against grey knights next week...oh the joy so any tips (what units to include, tactics etc) is all welcomed!!

(i now have money...so can buy anything you suggest i don't already have...except a whole different army :p).
 

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The usual. Fiends will tear up anything short of GKTs, Breath and MCs will kill them.

GKs are actually an easy matchup for Daemons unless they bring Sanctuary and Mystics. Marines on foot, very few tanks, very little shooting, and power weapons that bounce off of our invulnerable saves.
 

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Make sure you use units that have an armour save because Grey Knight players tend to spam psycannons and incinerators to ignour our invul save. This is key, because your units will just deepstrike in, get shot at and get sent back into ur cases if you DO NOT have an armour save.

Don't use Soulgrinders because lascannons will be Str 10 AP 1 against you because they have Blessed and some other ability i can't remember. But if you really want to, you gotta have at least 2 because one of them will surely die on turn 1. Other then that, if you get them close enough, ur soulgrinders will make mince meat outta anything in the Grey Knight army.
Thus i recommend using units that are fast whilst quite resilient.
Bloodthirsters are good cuz they have an armour save and have flight, get em in to combat as soon as you can.
Plaguebearers YOU MUST USE PLAGUEBEARERS they are ur only sort of troops that will hold well against Grey Knights
Bloodcrushers are your only sort of elite choice against GK, i've used them before and they go quite well against GK. Good T although short on the charge.
Daemon Princes are vital: must have Iron Hide, you either go Tzeentch or Nurgle. Tzeentch i usually go with Breath whilst Nurgle i go with Noxious Touch and perhaps a boon.
I find that Boon of Mutation, although very hard to pull through will serve you will.
Why? This is because all the powers are focused on either Inquisitors or Grandmasters. If a Grandmaster has a retinue then you cant target him whilst in close combat. However, Boon allows you to pick ANY model in 6 inches thus, target him and pray it works.

This is all i can think of atm. Really, against GK you need to prepare. They will get 2 rounds of shotting on you before you catch em.

yar...GOOD LUCK.
 

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pika is right take units that have another save other than the normal invul. A bloodthrister and Great unclean one combo go well together against Grey knights. Breath of chaos is amazing against grey knights since most of the time they are in small bunched up units. DPs might be a better choice against them just make sure to take Iron hide though or else they will die and very quickly.
 

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Damn it Chumbalaya you have written a tactica on daemons you should give more realistic advice! I mean everyone who has played against GK with daemon knows how badly a proper GK list can beat daemons. Firstly as has been said almost none of the daemons units get saves against most of their shooting. Also GK terminators will mess up any unit in the Daemon codex including the HQ's. Also I really doubt his enemy won't take mystics which will really mess up anything not in the Daemonic assault.

Also even though I love fiends they really won't beat GK troops in cover (Which his opponent will be hugging unless he's dense or something). Still the advice I could offer is take the usually marine killers like Bloodletters, and huge masses of Daemonettes. Also the skulltaker will still kill marines left and right regardless of the bonuses of GK's. Also avoid must of the GD's since they really won't last long against GK's at range or in combat with GKT's. Still as has been said you could try a GUO or Bloodthirster. Still against GK any large point sink unit could be a waste so a good old troop spam with flamers would probably be the best choice.
 

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Is the rule that troop deamon packs recycle when facing GK's still in force with C-D's? If it is troop spam all the way and have a couple of heralds

If it is load up on ranged deamons like horrors and get in cover, and have CC deamons to counter attack when they get close. You will need something to pop a LR though.

only psycannons and incinerators ignore your invuln save and theres generally not too many of them around so don't get freeked out by that. Generally though its best when facing GKs just to avoid point sinks and go for alot of cheeper units, a GKGM will slaughter any GD straight away in CC due to his nemesis weapon.

They will also laugh at you if you try to use psychic powers to stop them as any DH player worth his salt will take the infinite range psychic hood.
 

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They will also laugh at you if you try to use psychic powers to stop them as any DH player worth his salt will take the infinite range psychic hood.
Daemons do not have psychic abilities, in page 73 of the Daemon Codex, specifies that any Daemonic Gifts are NOT psychic powers. Thus you do not need to worry about psychic hoods.
 

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Daemons don't have psyhic powers, every such power is a shooting attack for them. :wink:
 

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Ok, i don't have a copy of the codex to hand. I know that CSM have powers with the same name that do count as psychic powers so assumed the deamons did aswell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
okay i have:

1 x thirster + UM
1 x skulltaker
1 x herald of khorne + UM, IH, BOTBG,
3 x flamers
3 x crushers 1 X FURY, 1 X ICON, 1 X INSTRUMENT
19 x letters 1 X ICON
15 x bearers 1 X ICON

and i have 104 points to spare and not sure where and how to spend it. was thinking maybe another group of flamers?

skulltaker will join with the letters while the herald with the crushers.

drop one will be herald + crushers, flamers and bearers. bearers meat shield will hopefully be an icon drop for the rest of the guys in turn two.
 

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Figured Id better get in here and point out a few things. The first is almost NONE of the daemons in the Chaos Daemons codex count as Daemons to Grey Knights. That's crazy you say! :shok: But true! On page 20 of the Daemonhunters codex it clearly states what counts as daemons to them. You will notice most of those entries dont exist in the Daemons codex with the exception of Greater Daemons and Nurglings as daemonic packs refers to a specific entry in the Chaos Marine 3rd Ed codex as does the daemonic beasts entry and daemon princes as chaos lords with 50 points or more of wargear. So this means no assualting as if in difficult terrain, no sacred incense, no grimoire of true names, etc is going to affect your daemonic troops, elites, or heavies, or Daemonic Heralds. So basically just beware their psycannons, use bloodletters against them, and throw down lots of grinders or princes to really chew them up. Grey Knights have very few options to take lascannons and such plus their powerfists and such are insanely expensive. I regularily spank my buds Grey Knights with my Khorne Daemon army. :grin:

To all those Grey Knight players crying foul just remember when your codex was written the Chaos Space Marines were THE most powerful army in 40K and the daemons had marines for back-up. That is no longer the case. I think once Ordo Inquistion releases these oversights will be corrected but I think the Knights will be getting a severe thrashing with the nerf bat like Chaos did.
 

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Figured Id better get in here and point out a few things. The first is almost NONE of the daemons in the Chaos Daemons codex count as Daemons to Grey Knights. That's crazy you say! :shok: But true! On page 20 of the Daemonhunters codex it clearly states what counts as daemons to them. You will notice most of those entries dont exist in the Daemons codex with the exception of Greater Daemons and Nurglings as daemonic packs refers to a specific entry in the Chaos Marine 3rd Ed codex as does the daemonic beasts entry and daemon princes as chaos lords with 50 points or more of wargear. So this means no assualting as if in difficult terrain, no sacred incense, no grimoire of true names, etc is going to affect your daemonic troops, elites, or heavies, or Daemonic Heralds. So basically just beware their psycannons, use bloodletters against them, and throw down lots of grinders or princes to really chew them up. Grey Knights have very few options to take lascannons and such plus their powerfists and such are insanely expensive. I regularily spank my buds Grey Knights with my Khorne Daemon army. :grin:

To all those Grey Knight players crying foul just remember when your codex was written the Chaos Space Marines were THE most powerful army in 40K and the daemons had marines for back-up. That is no longer the case. I think once Ordo Inquistion releases these oversights will be corrected but I think the Knights will be getting a severe thrashing with the nerf bat like Chaos did.
What a crock of shit...Codex is called 'Chaos Daemons'...a Daemon is a Daemon. Players like you make me sick.
 

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Its true that they dont count as daemons to GK's in tournys, but if your playing in a GW than you will have to check with your manager, i have already established that they do count as daemons many times to others who say nay, and also have been confirmed by HQ. so, you can get away with this ruling in tournys but not in a LGS. The codex is called daemons, they have the daemon special rule, they look like daemons, they ARE daemons!:threaten:
 

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Even my bud that plays Grey Knights agrees. I should add he was the one who pointed it out to me! I guess I should have added it's also balanced out by the fact Sustained Assualt is no longer in the game. What are you gonna do? Throw out those rules about what counts as daemons? You may as well let the daemons use Sustained Assualt while you're at it. Rules are rules. I don't like lots of them in the game but there are no shades of grey in that list of what counts as a Daemon. You can't just choose to ignore certain entries in codexes to suit your own desires. Even though I'm sure that would please Dark Eldar players immensly as they have the oldest and most outdated codex. The Daemonhunters aren't far behind in terms of when their codex was written.

GW store managers are far from the authority on anything. The one I know personally has the worst grasp of basic sportmanship or rules out of almost anyone I know playing. I just hope he's the exception and not the rule when it comes to store staff. The tournament staff are what you should be going by or the FAQs. No sense in playing a certain way until you head to a tournament and suddenly all your practice and strategy goes right out the window.
 

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I play DH/GK and I know dozens of both Daemon and DH/GK players...not one of them says that daemoms don't count as Daemons...not one.

At GW stores and at Tourneys none of them have had that argument brought up...why, because it's a crock and goes against RAW, sportsmanship, common sense etc.

The DH Codex doesn't overwrite the Daemons Codex, so it's list of Daemons isn't a definitive list of what a Daemon is. By RAW all the Daemons listed in the Daemons Codex are Daemons, and saying they're not is Rules Lawyering to such a degree it's extremely poor sportsmanship.

Man I'm glad I have a decent group of guys to game with...life is too short to put up with BS like this.
 

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I play DH/GK and I know dozens of both Daemon and DH/GK players...not one of them says that daemoms don't count as Daemons...not one.

At GW stores and at Tourneys none of them have had that argument brought up...why, because it's a crock and goes against RAW, sportsmanship, common sense etc.

The DH Codex doesn't overwrite the Daemons Codex, so it's list of Daemons isn't a definitive list of what a Daemon is. By RAW all the Daemons listed in the Daemons Codex are Daemons, and saying they're not is Rules Lawyering to such a degree it's extremely poor sportsmanship.

Man I'm glad I have a decent group of guys to game with...life is too short to put up with BS like this.
Actually the RAW states, without arguement, that to DH there are only specific units they consider Daemons. Period. That's in the DH Codex. The fact that it says they are Daemons in the Daemon Codex means nothing. Are you going to start using the Kill Them All rule from the Black Templar Codex even though that rule is no longer in effect? Because it's in that Codex means it must take precidence over the others? Maybe even the rulebook? How do you choose which rules you should use exactly as presented then?

Do I think that it's retarded that GW hasn't issued a simple FAQ update to resolve this issue? Yes. But as GTs are officially sponsored tournaments and they treat the DH codex as absolute then that is the game designers intentions obviously. Whining about it doesn't matter.

Everybody has taken their lumps while this game evolves. I went from having a Daemon Prince that could maul entire units by himself (Berzerker Glaive, Daemon Armour, Daemonic Strength and Rune) to a mewling kitten afraid of bolter fire. Bloodletters don't have 3+ armour saves anymore. Rending got nerfed on the Daemonettes. Horrors only have one wound now. Do I need to continue? I think that perhaps you don't understand they have probably made the decision not to update the FAQ as it has kept the game balanced. Gone are the days of the super powered Chaos Codex the DH Codex was made to combat. Really, do you think it would be better that you can use Sanctuary while in a Purgatation Squad standing on an objective and have nothing a Daemon Army could do about it? That would be your idea of fair?

I have yet to meet a Grey Knight player that took exception to the way the rules are treated at GTs. Especially at GTs! The Grey Knights have enough going for them when it comes to fighting Daemons that the loss of a few paltry tricks hardly gives them pause. They are still WS 5 S 6 with a ton of stormbolters and the ability to take psycannons and mystics. Oh, and my buds favorite! Incinerators. Cursed flame templates...:russianroulette:
 

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I just checked and boy oh boy screw your MF'n psychic hoods mwahahaha at the top of the page 73 in bold letters at the end of that paragraph it says( note these attacks are not psychic powers) i think this is a bonus i never noticed before. Nice!

sorry about the late post on this subject haha. and as far as what counts as a Daemon. well the Eldar Avatar counts as a Daemon but its not its a God incarnate. do we need another space marine chapter of God Incarnate Hunters. I think we need to stop arguing over semantics and play the rules as they are if you would like to add house rules thats fine. If it is decided that it is unbalanced then they will issue a FAQ to fix it or a new codex and when they do it will probably screw over some other army and that it how it will be for a while and how it has been for the last 20 years. there are a lot of things that ignore common sense in this game and i get frustrated all the time. but do your "serenity now" thing or count to ten or what ever helps you to calm down and move on and try to enjoy the battle.

come on can't we just kick each others ass in peace.

Sen
 

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Well sense you like to go by things with RAW then ill just go back to slaying outright anyone that stands in my way.. and if your gonna try and rules lawer on that then i say good day to you sir.:so_happy:
 

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Deamon = Deamon

I am his hammer, The point on his spear, the gauntlet around his fist.

Any who says that a bloodletter or horror or plaguebearer is not a daemon is simply a prat.

Play the game as its intended and play in the spirit of the game, and technically the deamon codex says they are deamons, thats why they have special rules.

Would you argue that summoned lesser daemons are not daemons?
 
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