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Executive Nitpicker
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)

This week's chosen target is the mighty Tau Broadside.

With a 2+ save, 2 wounds and T4 it is a tough nut to crack. Tougher if it has Shield Drones with it.

For weapons, it has the single scariest gun ever, the fearsome Railgun. S10, AP1, 72" range and, if that weren't bad enough, it's twin-linked!

The suit is also armed with either TL Smart Missile Systems, which fires four S5 missiles and can be fired indirectly...albeit at a relatively short range... or it could have a twinlinked Plasma Rifle, which is S6 AP2 and rapid fire.

Thankfully they cannot fire both weapons at once unless they use their only upgrade slot to include a Multitracker, but you rarely see this because Advanced Stabilization Systems are far more common, allowing the Broadside to move and fire its weapons (Gives it Slow and Purposeful)

Tatgeting Array is also a common upgrade, giving the suit BS4 (with its twin-linked weapon this means it;s going to hit, a lot)

It is relatively weak in melee, with its low WS and initiative, but it does have a high strength.

They can be fielded solo or in unit of up to three suits. Unlike other tau battlesuits, the Broadside lacks the infamous Jed-Pack, so it's a relatively static unit. One suit may be upgraded to leader, granting it better battlesuit armory access (and allowing it to take hard-wired versions of some support systems, such as a hard-wired multitracker that doesn't take up a slot)

They're a heavy support slot for Tau, and fairly expensive so you';ll rarely encounter more than one unit of them.

So...how do you deal with Broadsides?
 

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I play BA so I guess volume of fire from rapid fire Tac Squads to cover my VAS Marines w/Thammer and two meltas as they charge up the flank. I don't think I would use high strength heavy weapons because invariably they're going to have shield drones to squash your instant death along with their invulnerable save. Additionally smart players will have them in cover.

I would rather save my heavy weapons to fire for the Skimmers that are bound to be running around the board. I guess it goes back to ASSAULT Shootie units, and SHOOT Assault Units. Just hug cover and hope your troopers get there in one piece.
 

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Jac "Baneblade" O'Bite
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As with most problems I'd go with a GKGM or even just a BC deepstriking on top of them. NFM will slice through that stuff like nobodies business and then I'd move onto taking out his other static firepower. The GM/BC doesn't even really need a Bodyguard to do this.

For straight IG its a little harder, I'd probably go with a Special Weapon squad with Sniper Rifles or Ratlings. However it is very hit and miss. I havn't faced a Tau army with straight IG so I'm not sure.
 

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The only easy way to wipe out broadsides is with concentrated lascannon fire, as if they were a tank. You'll have to get through 2 shield drones if the tau player is worth his salt before you actually start killing suits, so this can be a difficult proposition. Any long-range anti-infantry fire is not going to inflict enough wounds to get through a 2+ save very efficiently. Deepstrikers may have a chance of getting to them (there is significant risk of other tau being in the area that will kill you or you may scatter into unless your foe is completely deepstriking/mechtau). Fast skimmer transports also have a good shot because there's a good chance that 3 glancing hits won't take your skimmer down. If you have 2 such skimmers, more the better. The strongest thing for space marines is to hit them with a bunch of vindicators, but that's not really an option for most. Another good choice is deepstriking combi-plasma terminators into rapid fire range. Risky, but they should be able to tear through broadsides if the gambit succeeds. I wouldn't expect deepstriking melee troops to last until their next turn when they actually get to move after deepstriking a high priority target into the range of all the tau guns.

With my orks I don't take vehicles so I just laugh at their uselessness :taunt: until they get within 24" for their SMS (which is, admittedly, very strong because a squad of 3 will get 12 shots that don't require LoS). Warbikers make broadsides wet themselves. If they use their SMS, they have to deal with 5 toughness and a 4+ save. If they use their railguns, they still have to deal with a 4+ cover save to kill a 25 point unit. And warbikers with good deployment will be in their face by turn 2. Unfortunately while they are resistant to the ubiquitous str 5 ap 5 tau gun profile, warbikers are weak to missile pods, which many tau have in spades. Snikrot kommandos also tear broadsides to shreds with volume of attacks and burna power attacks.

With my tau it's a good old fashioned railgun duel probably augmented by deepstriking fireknife suits. It's not pretty on either side.

Broadsides are an extremely tough nut to crack, especially if they're properly defended by other tau (such as a deathrain/fireknife crisis team and fire warriors). An intact CC squad of any type gives them a solid pounding. A very fast army can get past their defenses with units intact, but space marines in general are too slow, even in rhinos (which are vulnerable to getting missile podded to death or killed by the multitude of str 5 weaponry even with smoke launchers.) A biker force can get into them and resist counterfire if they turboboost but there has to be a lot of them to resist the high volume of fire focused entirely on them.
 

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Executive Nitpicker
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Discussion Starter #5
As a blood Angels player I've found that there's few targets a well-armed VAS can't crack. A pair of meltaguns and at least one powerfist can do a lot of damage, assuming we don't get shot to shit with the SMS before we close in. It's less of a threat to marines than orks since we still get our saves, but that's still a lot of firepower coming up over some wall or something.

On general principles, without any particular army in mind, I'd still focus on assault over shooting at them. Unless you have reliable S10 guns, nothing in most arsenals can instant-kill them, and the presence of shield drones is a deterrant. Meanwhile, you can't outrange them and they can always take cover and hit you with missiles.

Getting a unit close enough to assault them will be tricky, but if they have any kind of power weapon, it should pay off.
 

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How about wolf scouts? 6 of them with 2 power weapons a meltagun and a pack leader
with a thunder hammer is around 160 points (cant remember of the top of my head) the broadsides are usually with in 6 to 10 inchs from the board edge anyway so just bring on the scouts in reserve and let them run riot
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Not a bad idea.

Chaos Chosen could be useful too. Infiltrate enough meltaguns and powerfists in and they can cause some havoc.
 

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If you have a few deff copptas in a ork army with buzz saws, scout move them, you might not win the first turn but if you do happy hunting.
 

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Unless you have reliable S10 guns, nothing in most arsenals can instant-kill them, and the presence of shield drones is a deterrant.
Actually, they're toughness 4, so lascannons can instakill them if you can get through the shield drones.

Deep strike termies and kill with an assualt cannon, rending is so awesome...
A full broadsides squad has 8 wounds with 2 4++ saves and all 2+ saves. Unless you get all 8 shots to rend the terminators really aren't going to make much of a dent. On average they'll get 1, maybe 2 rends (which the broadsides get a 4++ save against) and even if you've knocked off a few drones the broadsides still have 2 wounds each. The rest of the shots will likely get saved against. CSM terminators with combi-meltas or combi-plasmas will be much more effective. Worst of all those termies will likely not survive the counterfire from deepstriking within rapid fire range of that many tau guns (especially from the plasma rifle armed suits and the railguns of the broadsides themselves).
 

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Pally-HO!!!!
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my scout snipers chew through those railsuits. sniper rifles are like lasguns...get enough of em firing and watch statistics work ^_^
also ive wiped out a unit of 2 plus shield drones in one shooting phase with my trusty devastator team- lascannons are a beautiful thing in skilled hands
 

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my scout snipers chew through those railsuits. sniper rifles are like lasguns...get enough of em firing and watch statistics work ^_^
also ive wiped out a unit of 2 plus shield drones in one shooting phase with my trusty devastator team- lascannons are a beautiful thing in skilled hands
You realise you need about 28 sniper shots to kill each Broadside? A 5 man squad would take a whole game to kill one at a greater cost in points.
But true lascannon devastators/havocs scare my Broadsides.
 

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with necrons it would be hq with veil teleport 15 warriors behind them rapid fire. 30 shots on 3+ = 20 hits 4+ wound = 10 wounds. I'll guess btwn 3-4 wounds out o that i'm not sure if the're fearless or not but thats a hell of a morale check after that.

or they can save them all which usually happens when i play against 2+ save units.
 

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Executive Nitpicker
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Discussion Starter #14
Actually, they're toughness 4, so lascannons can instakill them if you can get through the shield drones.
Duuuurr, I even said T4 in my opening post. I am dumb. <facepalm>
Please disregard my temporary brain fart :grin:

Deep strike termies and kill with an assualt cannon, rending is so awesome...
A full broadsides squad has 8 wounds with 2 4++ saves and all 2+ saves. Unless you get all 8 shots to rend the terminators really aren't going to make much of a dent. On average they'll get 1, maybe 2 rends (which the broadsides get a 4++ save against) and even if you've knocked off a few drones the broadsides still have 2 wounds each. The rest of the shots will likely get saved against. CSM terminators with combi-meltas or combi-plasmas will be much more effective. Worst of all those termies will likely not survive the counterfire from deepstriking within rapid fire range of that many tau guns (especially from the plasma rifle armed suits and the railguns of the broadsides themselves).
Exactly. You're going to lose two or three terminators in the first return volley, guaranteed and that's just if he;s using SMS. If he armed them with plasma rifles, your terminators are screwed. 3 railgun shots and 6 plasma = dead termies.

Better to send a more expendable assault squad armed with a powerfist and some plasma (or meltas if you got 'em).
 

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Hmmm, thinking about it, broadsides are a tough nut to crack. I would pepper them with some long range anti-infantry fire to kill of the gun drones first, then go after them with long range anti tank/deepstriking melta guns.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
It's not gun drones they usually pack with them, Ubi, it's Shield Drones (which in the company of Broadsides are T4 and 2+ save with a 4+ invul), so anti-infantry weapons are going to bounce off them just the same as the broadsides themselves
 

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Damn, how'd I miss that? After all, I only played tau for about 2 years............
:headbutt:

Hmmm, that makes them even harder to kill. I'd say that a dedicated assault unit (assault marines, genestealers, wytches, harlequins) would be the best choice. Shooting the broadsides doesn't look like it's much of an option.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Just have to live long enough to get into assault ;-)
 

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Broadsides actually do very well in hand to hand due to their high save, high strength and good toughness, unless the opponent rends or has power weapons. There's also not really any excuse for your HtH unit to have not been peppered with SMS or tank shocked before they get to the broadsides.

Because they're multi-wound models instakill is the way to go for shooting. It sounds as if you need to deny them targets as well as possible then use ordnance on them if you're an imperial army or if you happen to be SoB the exorcist would be optimal. Pulse Lasers and Harliquins for the Eldar (send in the invincible falcon!). DS Raveners for 'nids, or perhaps a carefully placed Lictor would do. (probably not...) Death Company would also be a good choice since they'd likely survive the missile barrage and have a good chance against any plasma rifle fire.

I'm sure there's other options out there, but that's what comes to mind for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Good points, Wetware.
Though as a Blood Angel player I have an irrational fear of Railguns (they're about the only thing that'll make Mephiston run for cover), it's better to loose a couple of DC to railgun shots than to see tanks get vaped or Mephy turned into a bloody smear.
 
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