[fatmantis]

hey guys so not really and issue but i just want your view on this..
pg 77 BRB "vehicle do not receive cover save for simply being in woods or ruins the 25% rule takes precedence"

pg 108 BRB Ruins "MODELS in ruins recive a 4+ regardless whether or not they are 25% obscured"

so my view is a vehicle is a model so if in a ruin would get a 4+. its the way we play it at our club..do you think this is wrong or is it ok...

now i dont want this to turn into an all out argument i just would like a genreal overview of how other people PLAY it....not what English rule is better...
thanks

 

[scscofield]

We play it that they get the 4+ around here if the cover is being granted by ruins. We apply the 25% rule to this though for them.

 

[Fallen]

Well, I would read it to be in effect "models without bases cannot gain cover saves by simply being in area terrain, and can only obtain a cover save if 25% (or more) of the model is obscured".

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otherwise, it states emphatically that VEHICLES do not gain a cover save by simply being in area terrain, but ALL OTHER models (that are not vehicles) do.

 

[scscofield]

Want to say area terrain doesn't exist anymore in 7th, around here we house rule it that it still does because we don't feel like redoing all of our terrain pieces.

 

[fatmantis]

Well, I would read it to be in effect "models without bases cannot gain cover saves by simply being in area terrain, and can only obtain a cover save if 25% (or more) of the model is obscured".

where does it say models without bases?

otherwise, it states emphatically that VEHICLES do not gain a cover save by simply being in area terrain, but ALL OTHER models (that are not vehicles) do.

yes but it also says models in ruins..

 

[Fallen]

yes but it also says models in ruins..

pg 77 BRB "vehicle do not receive cover save for simply being in woods or ruins the 25% rule takes precedence"

Ask question, get answer.

everything is a model, but not all models are vehicles (same principle as "all rectangles are squares, but not all squares are rectangles")

I was just telling you how I would have read it and treated it if it was going to be confusing.

----

If you guys have already house ruled it to work such a way then stick with that, there isn't going to be a lot of "global" rulings anymore from GW.

 

[ntaw]

Vehicles are not obscured simply for being inside terrain such as woods or ruins. The 25% rule given above takes precedence.

Seems pretty clear to me.

 

[scscofield]

Well there yah go.

 

[fatmantis]

Seems pretty clear to me.

its only "pretty Clear" if you only look at that sentence...in my original post i also stated that,
but i also stated "models in ruins"

so how can it be Pretty clear? is a vehicle not a model?

 

[scscofield]

It is also a vechicle, which has specific rules concerning this issue.

All vehicles are models but not all models are vehicles.

 

[ntaw]

so how can it be Pretty clear? is a vehicle not a model?

Because it says, specifically in the rules for vehicles, how vehicles work in ruins and that the rule they put forth in the vehicle section takes precedence over the ruling in the section containing ruins.

prec·e·dence
noun
the condition of being considered more important than someone or something else; priority in importance, order, or rank.

This means the ruling in the Vehicles section trumps what you are trying to pull out of the ruins section, as per whoever GW's editor is.

 

[fatmantis]

prec·e·dence
noun
the condition of being considered more important than someone or something else; priority in importance, order, or rank.

amazing,,you went to all that detail..but failed to see the detail i asked in the original post.

 

[scscofield]

RAW is it needs to be 25% obscured

 

[ntaw]

:goodpost:

 

[Fallen]

this may or may not be correct for some of the units, since I haven't bothered to buy the 7th ed codex, but assuming that most things from 6th carried over, then I think I have most in the right order.

 

[ntaw]

amazing,,you went to all that detail..but failed to see the detail i asked in the original post.

so my view is a vehicle is a model so if in a ruin would get a 4+. its the way we play it at our club..do you think this is wrong or is it ok...

3 our of 3 people responding say you have it wrong, and have cited specific sources from the BRB.

That's it for me kids. Have a good'un :drinks:

 

[fatmantis]

3 our of 3 people responding say you have it wrong, and have cited specific sources from the BRB.

That's it for me kids. Have a good'un :drinks:

why dont you also quote the part where i asked" how do you Play it?" see not everybody has to be a rule nazi and kill the game...hence why i asked "play" some people actually do play for fun.

 

[scscofield]

We play it by the rules and this is the rules forum. If you want to hear about houserules and homebrew rules for this I can get this thread moved to that forum.

 

[Zion]

When in doubt the more specific rule wins last I checked (though if that's not the case please let me know because sentences being deleted with no list of changes makes it hard to keep up on what changed). Vehicles, being a certain model type is more specific than "models" so I would go with interpreting it as Vehicles need to be 25% obscured, even if parked in terrain (like a Twisted Copse or Ruins) to gain a cover save, just because they really suck at using the terrain to their advantage to get cover (by say hiding behind a tree or flattening against a wall or floor to gain cover).

Does that work for you OP?

 

[ntaw]

Alright. I tried real hard here.

why dont you also quote the part where i asked" how do you Play it?"

I did, in your original post you didn't say that specifically. You typed out:

hey guys so not really and issue but i just want your view on this..

so my view is a vehicle is a model so if in a ruin would get a 4+. its the way we play it at our club..do you think this is wrong or is it ok...

The second part of which I quoted because I thought that was the relevant bit.

see not everybody has to be a rule nazi and kill the game

You asked the question, not me. Now 4 people have answered the same, opposing how you play it. Don't call me a nazi for quoting the BRB dude. Wrong side of the line.

hence why i asked "play" some people actually do play for fun

I don't play competitively, I don't even play in-store. I don't give a fuck about homebrew rules, or how people ignore FAQs that hinder their army while upholding ones they think are 'fair'. Considering how many of your army lists I have commented on and how many times I have tried to assist you in your knowledge of this game the way you're talking to me is fucking stupid. Get over the way you want to see the rules and accept that maybe you might just have this one little thing wrong. And if you don't like it? Fuck it, play the game whatever way you want to. Just don't pretend to us that the BRB says that Vehicles get cover no matter what in Ruins, because it says the exact opposite in the Vehicles section.