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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have decided to purchase a 5 man vanguard veteran squad and I was wondering if storm shield were worth the points. The reason why I'm asking is because is it really worth losing an extra attack or not. The weapons would be sergeant relic blade, power sword, power axe, thunder hammer and a pair of lightning claws (which obviously wouldn't include a storm shield. Does anyone have any experience with this?
 

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Rattlehead
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I recently played a small game against a guy who had 5 Vanguard with Relic Blade on the Sergeant, 4 Thunder Hammers, Storm Shields and Jump Packs. They wiped my Warlord's unit, running it down in melee, since the Boyz weren't high enough strength/in enough numbers to hurt them too much and the Power Klaw just skidded off them (and they rolled quite high, to be fair).

They're extremely expensive, and I'm not sure you'd need the whole squad armed that way, but they're fairly effective when used as a scalpel unit, or to murderate something that's broken through your line and is threatening the rest of your army.
 

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You know what a Storm Shield gives you? A 3+ save. You know what a 14pt Marine has? Yeah. A 3+ save.

So a boltgun kills a 50pt Vanguard Marine with Hammer and Shield just as easily as a 14pt Tac Marine, which is why I don't like Vanguard very much at all, specially since they lost the ability to hide in melee the turn they arrived.
 

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Rattlehead
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On the other hand, a Nob with Power Klaw drastically evens a combat in favour of the Orks who can struggle with Marines if they're charged, while a Power Klaw is likely to bounce off Storm Shields.

Toe be honest, when a Vanguard with Storm Shield costs more than an Assault Terminator with the a 2+ armour save and a Thunder Hammer, you really need to think about how much you need the mobility offered by a Jump Pack and whether the thing you want them to fight can't be killed by something else.
 

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Murderate! That's and instant classic :laugh:

Add to Vanguard the ability to Sweeping Advance if you're comparing them to Assault Terminators.
 

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as most people have stated is the cost..and comparison...but as usual nobody has add tactics or strategy..
my question is..what is their job? what do you hope them do accomplish? are they support?front line combatants etc..
the reason i ask is i never tell people not to use any model..yes some model are better but my belief is if yuo tool them right and in the right numbers and have a sound strategy for them go for it...
my only things would be
:a getting the numbers of troops right...5 is too little..7-8 is probably about right..
b: give them the weapons need for the job they are intendend for

the other thing i would suggest is giving them a chaplin..just for the rerolls on the combat..they are an expensive unit so youll want maximum amount of damage output
 

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They seem kind of like Chosen to me. If you gear them up, they can be a devastating precision strike unit, just like MidnightSun was saying. But as the player you gotta determine if that outweighs the exorbitant price cost. If terminators can fill the same role, and last longer, AND cost less, why not take terminators and either add in more models to your army/upgrades to other units?

Just my two cents. Take it with a grain of salt though, last time I had a SM army was 4th ed. So I may have no idea what I am talking about.
 

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Personally I think I would play Vanguard Vets out of a Land Raider or Stormraven kitted with 3x Lightning Claws, 2x Power Axes, and Storm Shields for all. 220 points seems reasonable for a 3++ squad of AP3/AP2 attacks that can Sweep, and either delivery system has their own uses to offer.
 

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Personally I think I would play Vanguard Vets out of a Land Raider or Stormraven kitted with 3x Lightning Claws, 2x Power Axes, and Storm Shields for all. 220 points seems reasonable for a 3++ squad of AP3/AP2 attacks that can Sweep, and either delivery system has their own uses to offer.
Completely forgot that a SS is 3++. That point cost is absolutely worth it for that survivability IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
For 300 points I can get a sergeant with relic blade and storm shield, a power axe and storm shield, a power sword and storm shield, a thunder hammer storm shield and finally a pair of lightning claws and jump packs and melta bombs for all.
 

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The way I've used them recently is in a Storm Raven. 10 men WITHOUT Jump Packs and a Chaplain for Zealot with a couple of Power Fists. Works well to really finish off a crumbling flank, or support your centre.
 

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It would still be a Libby, ideally, but now you can't Bless from inside a transport (fucking retarded rule) and powers are a lot less reliable so the Chaplain gets a dust off.
 

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Rattlehead
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It would still be a Libby, ideally, but now you can't Bless from inside a transport (fucking retarded rule)
Why does that actually matter?

I don't know of any Blessings that you could cast inside a transport that would last until you got out - as it stands, you disembark then fire off your Blessings or whatever.
 

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Why does that actually matter?

I don't know of any Blessings that you could cast inside a transport that would last until you got out - as it stands, you disembark then fire off your Blessings or whatever.
It means if you have, say, Fortune or Invisibility, then you can't keep them up while embarked. So when you get shot down you don't have the buff up. Unlike last edition where you could benefit from things like Prescience even when someone destroyed your transport and assaulted you.

There's also the whole randomness aspect which wasn't present before.
 

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Rattlehead
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It means if you have, say, Fortune or Invisibility, then you can't keep them up while embarked. So when you get shot down you don't have the buff up. Unlike last edition where you could benefit from things like Prescience even when someone destroyed your transport and assaulted you.

There's also the whole randomness aspect which wasn't present before.
That's fair enough, but on the other hand, Fortune or Invisibility wouldn't help you any when you were shot down anyway. Str10 AP2 autohits for dudes inside Flyers, I believe?

Randomness is indeed a big new factor, as is being able to Deny said blessings.
 

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It's more of a general shift away from Psykers in transports for several reasons, rather than that specific circumstance. I find the Chaplain is performing better for me overall.
 

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Hi,

I have been reading with interest through the various posts on this thread - I have a set of the older finecast vanguard models and also a set of the newer plastic models. I was thinking of making a 10 man squad to use in my Ultramarines army. I know that this may not be very competitive but I always liked the sculpts of the finecast models and want to build and paint up a vanguard squad.

I am not sure how to loadout this squad and was thinking along the lines of:-

A front row of 5 veterans with storm shields and bolt pistols
A rear row of 5 veterans with bolt pistols and power weapons (still not sure which ones to pick)
Are plasma pistols totally out for using with this squad - as some of the finecast models come with these weapons or should I remove these?

Should the sergeant be in the front or back row?

I was thinking of using either a Chaplain with jump pack or the Lord Executioner model along with this squad?

Sorry for so many questions and not fully understanding / being confused with all the advice given in the posts.
Thanks in advance.
 

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Personally I run the following:

Sergeant with TH/SS
Fisticlaw
Claw / SS
Claw / Claw
Claw / Claw

I also like to throw in a Chaplain with Swiftstrike & Murder ( RG Relics).

As I use RG CTs I almost feel obligated to run around with jump packs, but I can definitely see the potential of this squad without the packs and just throwing them in an assault transport. The build I use above is generally for dealing with anything without a 2+ save, be that either counter attacking deep striking nasties, or charging up the flank shredding things.

Any spare points just throw in a melta bomb or two. They won't solve all of your problems (Hi Wulfen!) and occasionally your opponent will decide he wants them very, very dead; but that usually just means less pain for the rest of your army, so look on the bright side.

I have played with the RG formation that lets you deep strike and charge these guys. I've only done it a couple of times, but I've generally found the psychological effect it has on your opponents play is far more valuable than the actual damage output these guys get from it -if you can pull it off.
 
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