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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
g'day
i was wondering (not quite sure on the ruling) about whether units in front of units provide any sort of cover saves, eg. if i march my gretchin infront of my boyz while advancing down the battle field would they create a cover save from being shot at?

also if the above can happen would it affect lobber style weapons or area effect weapons.

any clarification would be appreciated.

thanks
Rob
 

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according to the new rules your boys would get a 4+ cover save from any units having to shoot through the gretchin to get them. on page 21 of the little rule book it has a " cover chart"
 

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g'day
i was wondering (not quite sure on the ruling) about whether units in front of units provide any sort of cover saves, eg. if i march my gretchin infront of my boyz while advancing down the battle field would they create a cover save from being shot at?

also if the above can happen would it affect lobber style weapons or area effect weapons.

any clarification would be appreciated.

thanks
Rob
Yes, a unit in front provides a 4+ cover save to units behind. Check on P21-22 on how this works. The coversave chart on P21 shows that a unit (friend or foe) gives a 4+ cover save to models behind it. The part that explains how this works is on the third dot point of P22. Treat them just as any other intervening terrain otherwise.

Barrage weapons (P32) ignore coversaves from intervening terrain, template weapons (P29) ignore all cover saves. Other weapons (including normal Blast weapons) do not. Basically, if it doesn't have Barrage, Template or a special rule affecting cover, the target unit can take any cover saves as normal.

Hope that helps out :)
 

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The fact that you get cover saves from ontervening units leads to some odd tactics especially from the cheesemongers.

For example unit A has half its troops in cover and half out of cover - it gets a cover save because of the 'half or more in cover' rule. Unit B has half or more of its troops standing behind unit A. All of unit B's troops are in the open but because half of them are 'covered' by the intervening troops from unit A everyone in unit B gets a cover save. By cleverly interweaving your units you get achieve the position wher a single piece of terrain gives everyone in the army a cover save.

A classic example of GW not thinking through their rules.

Regards
TT
 

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To clarify the Barrage thing.
When you fire a Barrage weapon, instead of drawing the LOS to see if the target is obscured from the firing model, you draw it from the centre of the blast marker.
So basically, to determine if the target is in cover or not, you the shot as though it was 'fired' from the blast marker, instead of the guy shooting it.
 

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By cleverly interweaving your units you get achieve the position wher a single piece of terrain gives everyone in the army a cover save.
That's the sort of behavior that should get a gamer smacked and booted from the club, tournament, or league.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
thanks alot guys i thought that was how it worked but that bit about using all the units to get cover saves is a bit rediculous i think we will make a house ruling on that.
rule manipulation will have no place at our games table (i hope) common sense will prevail (i know).

and yes i agree with Kreuger those people deserve to get kicked out as it is only a game and we all know the word "game" should be the same as "fun"

cheers
Rob
 

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The fact that you get cover saves from ontervening units leads to some odd tactics especially from the cheesemongers.

For example unit A has half its troops in cover and half out of cover - it gets a cover save because of the 'half or more in cover' rule. Unit B has half or more of its troops standing behind unit A. All of unit B's troops are in the open but because half of them are 'covered' by the intervening troops from unit A everyone in unit B gets a cover save. By cleverly interweaving your units you get achieve the position wher a single piece of terrain gives everyone in the army a cover save.

A classic example of GW not thinking through their rules.

Regards
TT


That's the sort of behavior that should get a gamer smacked and booted from the club, tournament, or league.

wait wait wait...are you crying and accusing people of "Cheese" because someone is playing by the rules? just because they use tactics that are within the rule book to its maximum and you CHOOSE not to does not mean they are playing "Cheesy" or is grounds for "smacked and booted from the club, tournament, or league."
 

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thanks alot guys i thought that was how it worked but that bit about using all the units to get cover saves is a bit rediculous i think we will make a house ruling on that.
You don't really need to, if units are intertwined like that, they can't move through each other, and after a single movement phase they're all messed up.

But yeah, anyone who tries it is a dick, regardless of whether or not it's a good idea.
 

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wait wait wait...are you crying and accusing people of "Cheese" because someone is playing by the rules? just because they use tactics that are within the rule book to its maximum and you CHOOSE not to does not mean they are playing "Cheesy" or is grounds for "smacked and booted from the club, tournament, or league."
Err, wait, yeah.
If that's what you guys were talking about, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.
What Truthteller described, is that one unit is in cover, and another is taking cover BEHIND that unit.
I was referring to when two units are linked together in such a way that both recieve cover saves from being behind one another.
 

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You don't really need to, if units are intertwined like that, they can't move through each other, and after a single movement phase they're all messed up.

But yeah, anyone who tries it is a dick, regardless of whether or not it's a good idea.
Actually, your units can move through your units as long as their bases fit through the gaps between the bases of the second unit. (BRB p.11)

Additionally, it should be noted that if you're intertwining your units for the sake of gaining cover from opposing units, you will always be granting them cover in return, since at lest half of the models in your unit are firing through a unit.

There are further complications involved in intertwining units that can really put the screws to the player doing so, not the least of which is inviting creatively angled assaults from opposing players that quickly result in the loss of both intertwined units (see 'Nids termagants and Tervigons).
 

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Actually, your units can move through your units as long as their bases fit through the gaps between the bases of the second unit. (BRB p.11)

Additionally, it should be noted that if you're intertwining your units for the sake of gaining cover from opposing units, you will always be granting them cover in return, since at lest half of the models in your unit are firing through a unit.

There are further complications involved in intertwining units that can really put the screws to the player doing so, not the least of which is inviting creatively angled assaults from opposing players that quickly result in the loss of both intertwined units (see 'Nids termagants and Tervigons).
You realize that you are able to fire through your ow units as if they were not obscured..
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
yeah i thought you could fire through your own units as long as they weren't in hand to hand, because that was my main idea, use the gretchins as cannon fodder to soak up shots or give me boyz cover long enough for them to be able to get into whacking distance of the enemy.

cheers
Rob
 

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You realize that you are able to fire through your ow units as if they were not obscured..
Shooting though friendly troops grants a cover save, just as shooting through enemy troops does. you can't fire through friendly troops as if they were not obscured.

That said, you are allowed to declare some of your troops as not firing, in order to stop your opponent getting a cover save. As such, in the unit hiding 50-50 behind one another, you can delcare you're not shooting with some of the models at the back of the unit, and would therefore not give a cover save to your opponent (assuming he wasn't in cover anyway).

However, I have yet to see someone try that tactic, simply because it's too difficult to keep like that when moving or when you take casualties, and you are too vulnerable to blast template. As such, it's usually relegated to the "possible, but highly impractical" pile, and not much of a worry. These days, you tend to just see people using area terrain as normal, or just piling into vehicles, or getting cover saves from special effects, or just screening with a cheap unit, rather than trying complex interwoven units.
 

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The fact that you get cover saves from ontervening units leads to some odd tactics especially from the cheesemongers.
Just to be a dick at local tournaments I used to run a double banana formation with templar.

All the actual good models would be in the center, intertwining at the top of a column, the rest of the column would branch off to either side with scouts to provide a shield of cover.

And they'd always get it unless something deep struck or pie-plated from above, but they were usually in cover so who cares. Hahahah it was amaaaaziiiing.

Oh and herp derp, people get cover saves from my bolt pistols? Awesome.


Also to note, the space BETWEEN models grants a cover save. It's like an invisible wall unless you're an mc or tank.
 
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