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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The question that I am searching for an answer to is this. 'Model' and 'unit' are defined up front on page 3 of the BRB: they are structural definitions.

So what does it mean that some USRs refer to 'model' and some to 'unit'?
 

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when it is refering to a "model" it is talking about a single guy on the board. When they use the term "unit" the are refering to a group of models. For example a unit of tactical squad marines could be 10 tactical marine models.
 

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i think its if it refers to a model than only that model has it if it means unit the whole unit has it
 

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this can be key as USR's such as Stelth only work is the UNIT have them and not just 1 MODAL. If they don't ALL have it them they don't get to use it. Also some ruels like Furious charge will work on the MODALS that have them such as Death Company but will not work on the MODAL in the unti that doesn't have the special rule.
 

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A space marine is a model. A Tac squad is a unit.

A tank is a model. If it's on it's own it's a unit too - so a single model can be a "unit" as well. If it was in a squadron, the squadron would be the unit.

A model is any singular model, just as described. A Unit is a partition of your force, which operates and acts together, such as a squad, or a vehicle, or an MC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
this can be key as USR's such as Stelth only work is the UNIT have them and not just 1 MODAL. If they don't ALL have it them they don't get to use it. Also some ruels like Furious charge will work on the MODALS that have them such as Death Company but will not work on the MODAL in the unti that doesn't have the special rule.
So you are saying that models lose USRs that apply to units if they are in a unit containing other models lacking that USR? That is harsh!

Where in the rules do I find out that it works that way?
 

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See Page 74, first column, of the BRB. You will notice that some USRs have (*) next to them, and this will explain why.
 

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Non-IC Characters are always part of the units they are part of, so any special application will be dealt with in the unit description in the applicable codex. In almost all cases, Characters that form part of a coherent unit will share any USRs with that unit - but, again, it will be explained in the unit description of the codex.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Non-IC Characters are always part of the units they are part of, so any special application will be dealt with in the unit description in the applicable codex. In almost all cases, Characters that form part of a coherent unit will share any USRs with that unit - but, again, it will be explained in the unit description of the codex.
Sounds fair. So in cases (for non-ICs) when there is no divergent explanation in the codex we should apply the USR to the 'model' or to the 'unit' as stipulated in the BRB.

That sounds entirely reasonable to me :)
 

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as others have said, "unit" refers to the group of models that are representing any single choice on the FoC (so 1 heavy support choice is a unit, 1 troop choice is a unit) where as "model" refers to the specific model.

To show an example useing my wolves codex.

I shoot both living lightning and Jaws of the World wolf into a unit of 10 troops with an IC in the squad. Living Lightning does d6 str 7 shots into the unit, which the player owning the troop/ic can allocate all the wounds to the troops, since living lightning hits "units" not "models" Jaws, on the other hand, would most likely be directed at the IC, any "model" it is touching is what is removed. so if its touching a special weapon model, you can not remove one of your normal models (the bulk of the unit) in place of it, the special weapon has to be removed if it fails the init test. so would the IC if the JotwW hits him and he fails the test.
 

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as others have said, "unit" refers to the group of models that are representing any single choice on the FoC (so 1 heavy support choice is a unit, 1 troop choice is a unit) where as "model" refers to the specific model.
This is not entirely true, unfortunately.

A unit is defined by its own codex entry, while a FOC slot can have several units in it.
For example: Necrons can have 9 units from Heavy Support slots, even though there are only 3 FOC slots; Chaos Daemons can have 4 units from HQ slots, even though there are only 2 FOC slots; Tyranids can have 12 units from Troops slots, even though there are only 6 slots.
The list goes on, but I think you see the point.

A unit has its own entry in a codex. Some units consist of only 1 model, while some consist of many models. Some single model units are IC, some are not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thank you those who clarified the definitions of 'unit' and 'model'. I'm actually not confused about those :) My question was regarding the presence of the word 'model' in some USRs and 'unit' in others. Why do some USRs refer to unit, while others refer to model?!

A reasonable conclusion is that in cases for non-ICs when there is no divergent explanation in the codex we should apply the USR to the 'model' or to the 'unit' as stipulated in the BRB.

Out of curiousity, does anyone feel that is mistaken?
 

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Ummmmm.....What? I read your post, then read the BRB, then read your post again, then read the BRB again, and i still cant figure out what you mean.

If a unit has a USR, it has one.
If an model has a USR, he has one.
If a model has a USR with an *, he losses it when he joins a unit without it.

Pretty cut-and-dried.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ummmmm.....What? I read your post, then read the BRB, then read your post again, then read the BRB again, and i still cant figure out what you mean.

If a unit has a USR, it has one.
If an model has a USR, he has one.
If a model has a USR with an *, he losses it when he joins a unit without it.

Pretty cut-and-dried.
That last part only applies to ICs doesn't it, in the BRB? If an IC has a USR with an *, he loses it when he joins a unit without it.

What happens for non-IC models? Or to put that another way, why say that it happens for ICs if it happens for all models?
 

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Talking in general terms about the 40K rule is pretty much impossible. If you have a specific question it would be easier.

It sounds like you're grasping for a specific situation? Wolf Guard split off into Wolf Scout units?

Aramoro
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Talking in general terms about the 40K rule is pretty much impossible. If you have a specific question it would be easier.

It sounds like you're grasping for a specific situation? Wolf Guard split off into Wolf Scout units?

Aramoro
I guess my specific question is 'Do USRs that in their definition refer to models apply to models, while USRs that in their definition refer to units apply to units?' To give you a (silly-sounding) counter-definition, does a USR that refers to a 'model' in its definition actually apply to a unit (in the absence of codex specific additional wording)?

On page 3 (I think it is, my BRB is at home) model and unit are defined up-front: that makes me think they are important definitions for the game as a whole. Then on the pages defining USRs, some USRs refer to models while others refer to units. I think that means something, and I wondered what other people thought?
 

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Well you've rather Answered you own question there

If a model has a USR , such as Eternal Warrior, it only effects that model irrelevant if they are in a unit or not.

If a unit has the USR, such as Furious Charge, and is joined by a IC without Furious Charge all the models in the unit still have it but it is not conferred upon the IC.

If a unit has a USR like Move Through Cover that applies to the whole unit.
If they are joined by an IC without Move Through Cover they lose the USR.

if the USR says model it means model, if it says unit it means unit. Counter-attack is one which says both as the unit takes the Leadership test, but it is each model that gains the bonus.

I still don't know what you're getting at in reality so I cannot really help you. If it's just a totally hypothetical discussion then lets just say yes they do.

Aramoro
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Sorry, I am not trying to be vexing.

Trying to be a bit more specific. What happens when a unit is joined by a model that is not an IC, or when a model in a unit gains a rule, for example where they become an upgrade character like Nork?
 
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