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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi

I'm new to the hobby and I am building a 1500pts army to play Chaos Space Marines or Necrons.
Here is the list i currently have:

HQ
Space Marine Chaplin
Terminator Armor with storm bolter
-130pts

Troops
Tactical Squad
5-extra men
Missile launcher
Melta
Power weapon
Plasma Gun
-195pts

Tactical Squad
5-extra men
Flamer
Power weapon
Missile launcher
Rhino
-220pts

Elites
Terminator Assault Squad
Storm Shields/Thunder Hammers
Landraider
Extra Armor
-460

Dreadnought
Twin-linked lascannon
Missile Launcher
-145

Sternguard Veteran Squad
Combi-melta
-130
Fast Attack

Assault Squad
Power Weapon
-115pts

Heavy Support
Predator
Twin-linked lascannon
-105

I would appreciate any feed-back/ advice about the make up of my army.
 

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Do you already have those models? Well, either way unless you are going bikes the main advice will be to mech up.

1) Add a rhino to the first Tactical and the Sternguard. Note: ONLY BUY Razorback kits. You can assemble those so you can field them flexibly as either rhinos or razorbacks. They cost the same.

2) A librarian in power armour will be a very good thing to add. If that is a godhammer format LR (TLLC) then it is full and there is no point having the libby be in terminator armour.

3) Field your chappy as a captain.

4) If you haven't yet added the jump packs to the assault squad, don't. Field them on foot and give them another rhino (razorback). Your libby can drive around with them.
 

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Hi

I'm new to the hobby and I am building a 1500pts army to play Chaos Space Marines or Necrons.
Here is the list i currently have:

HQ
Space Marine Chaplin
Terminator Armor with storm bolter
-130pts

Nice, although consider dropping for a librarian with null zone and gate of infinity. See comment at bottom for explanation.

Troops
Tactical Squad
5-extra men
Missile launcher
Meltagun
Power weapon
Plasma Gun
-195pts

how did you get 195? I got 205. Drop the Plasma pistol on the sergeant and add in a rhino. Consider adding an additional storm bolter to the rhino if you have the spare points.


Tactical Squad
5-extra men
Flamer
Power weapon
Missile launcher
Rhino
-220pts

Definately prefer this squads layout. Again consider adding an additional storm bolter if points allow.

Elites
Terminator Assault Squad
Storm Shields/Thunder Hammers
Landraider
Extra Armor
-460

See my points below

Dreadnought
Twin-linked lascannon
Missile Launcher
-145

pretty nice. I prefer Ironclads, but this is pretty good as well. I like to run dreads in pairs though.

Sternguard Veteran Squad
Combi-melta
-130

Add in more combi-weapons. You still get the special issue ammunition for having bolters, but you get an additional combi-to deal with other situation. Other than that graet squad.

Fast Attack

Assault Squad
Power Weapon
-115pts

I think you need to run these in 10-man squads, so much more survivable and stronger.

Heavy Support
Predator
Twin-linked lascannon
-105

see comments below

I would appreciate any feed-back/ advice about the make up of my army.
Personally, I think you may be throwing too many points into your terminators+land raider. I know you would want the landraider for your terminators, but there is alternatives to them. Yes, they are pretty hard, but they are also very pricey for 1500 points, spending a 3rd of your points on 6 models just doesn't seem right to me. I would say drop these and add 2 Vindicators, best value for points for a tank in the codex, and are incredibly deadly to boot!
Then I would change your predator from a LC pred to an anti-infantry pred. Add HB side-sponsoons and a storm bolter, for 95 points. The vindicators can deal with armour (as well as infantry) and your pred can deal 10 shots a round at those pesky infantry models.

If you want to run the terminators, you don't necesarrily need a LR. Sure they will get around quicker this way, but it isn't necessary. You can always deep strike them, and with their 2+save and 3++invuln chances are they will be ok, it's just a lot more risky. I don't tend to run these unless you get to 1750 - 2000 points. If you decide to keep the terminators, keep the chaplain and add him to the squad, if not, I would say either remove the chaplains terminator armour and give him a jump pack instead, or drop entirely in place for a librarian.

Hope this helps mate.
 

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add 2 Vindicators, best value for points for a tank in the codex, and are incredibly deadly to boot! Then I would change your predator from a LC pred to an anti-infantry pred. Add HB side-sponsoons and a storm bolter, for 95 points. The vindicators can deal with armour (as well as infantry) and your pred can deal 10 shots a round at those pesky infantry models.
I feel that strictly the preds are better value for points. The Vindi gives you one gun w. 24" range. Any result on the damage table will stop that gun firing effectively. For about the same or less the pred gives you three guns with more range: thus more resilient and shooty. Another neat thing about preds is you can make up the model to be fieldable as a rhino or a predator, by simply not gluing the turret plate in and leaving the little cameras off the top of the sponson axles. (Or magnetise, which is really easy for preds.) I would definitely at this stage stick with preds. Friends do say pods of 3xVindi is good in Apocalypse. I have no experience of that, but certainly the vindi is not my ideal tank at 1500pts.

If you want to run the terminators, you don't necesarrily need a LR. Sure they will get around quicker this way, but it isn't necessary. You can always deep strike them, and with their 2+save and 3++invuln chances are they will be ok, it's just a lot more risky. I don't tend to run these unless you get to 1750 - 2000 points.
A note here, the assumption is you will field the termies SS/TH. This is both stronger and more outright fun than the LC/LC option. I agree about the LR, but assume you already have the model. I'm guessing you have a Godhammer, right? If so, you should generally not field it.

If you decide to keep the terminators, keep the chaplain and add him to the squad, if not, I would say either remove the chaplains terminator armour and give him a jump pack instead, or drop entirely in place for a librarian.
The issue with the jump chappy is a) it is a different model, and I assume you have the terminator chappy already, and b) it goes with a squad you don't really want to expand. I would strongly avoid at this point adding another chappie model to your collection.

If you want to add more HQ, definitely libby or captain, or if you want a name character Shrike or Vulkan are just about worth considering at 1500pts. A captain would give you an option on a command squad, which could be fun set up with PGs and/or on bikes.
 

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I feel that strictly the preds are better value for points. The Vindi gives you one gun w. 24" range. Any result on the damage table will stop that gun firing effectively. For about the same or less the pred gives you three guns with more range: thus more resilient and shooty. Another neat thing about preds is you can make up the model to be fieldable as a rhino or a predator, by simply not gluing the turret plate in and leaving the little cameras off the top of the sponson axles. (Or magnetise, which is really easy for preds.) I would definitely at this stage stick with preds. Friends do say pods of 3xVindi is good in Apocalypse. I have no experience of that, but certainly the vindi is not my ideal tank at 1500pts.
True on the damage result, but you do not need line of sight for vindicator (long as you don't move). And sure the predator gets more shots, but also the chances are more of those shots won't kill. A large template which max strength and near-enough best AP is going to deny a lot of models their armour save. Vindicators for me always kill more than my predators, thus making them a better choice. Both sides have fair points, but I will always choose my vindicators over predators :)


A note here, the assumption is you will field the termies SS/TH. This is both stronger and more outright fun than the LC/LC option. I agree about the LR, but assume you already have the model. I'm guessing you have a Godhammer, right? If so, you should generally not field it.
Well I assumed that his termies were taking TH/SS as that's what he said on his list.


The issue with the jump chappy is a) it is a different model, and I assume you have the terminator chappy already, and b) it goes with a squad you don't really want to expand. I would strongly avoid at this point adding another chappie model to your collection.
I'm not making advice on what models he does or does not have. 1. I don't know what models he has, and 2. I'm sure if it will increase his lists strength he won't mind paying. Alternatively he can proxy the model first to see if it works, then buy it if it does, don't buy it if it doesn't.

If you want to add more HQ, definitely libby or captain, or if you want a name character Shrike or Vulkan are just about worth considering at 1500pts. A captain would give you an option on a command squad, which could be fun set up with PGs and/or on bikes.
I wasn't saying add another HQ, I was saying remove the chaplain in place for a librarian, under the circumstances I stated.
 

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Quick question to Ultra, you said you don't need LOS on Vindi if not moving but I was under the impression that the Vindi is Ordnance n not Ordnance Barrage so you can't do indirect shooting with it?
 

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Quick question to Ultra, you said you don't need LOS on Vindi if not moving but I was under the impression that the Vindi is Ordnance n not Ordnance Barrage so you can't do indirect shooting with it?
Your sort of correct, this is my understanding of it (I may be wrong, but no0one has corrected me so far)...

In the demolisher cannons profile, it sayd Ord 1, barrage. Looking in the rule book, page 58, it says under ornance barrage weapons "do not need line of site, but you have to declare if you are firing directly or as a barrage."

Now, I think that as it says Ord 1, barrage in the demolisher cannon profile, you can choose to either shoot directly or as a barrage. Remember if you fire a barrage and scatter though you do not get to take away the firers BS from the scatter role.

Hope that answers your question bud.

EDIT - it is a bit unclear on the actual vindicators profile, but that is what I think based on what it says under that weapons profile on the back page :)
 

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Quick question to Ultra, you said you don't need LOS on Vindi if not moving but I was under the impression that the Vindi is Ordnance n not Ordnance Barrage so you can't do indirect shooting with it?
The Demolisher cannon is not a barrage weapon.

In the FAQ for Marines it clarifies that the 'barrage' added to the entry on the quick reference list at the back of the book is an error, and that the entry on the detailed pages (page 80) is the correct one to use.

Personally I think the Demolisher should be barrage, that'd make it a nice option to field as Marines get very few indirect fire weapons. Were it barrage, it would have a minimum range though. It would be something like 6"-24" or 12"-36". Stupid, stupid Games Workshop.
 

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Thanks for link, now reading...ok you win this argument lol.

but still...

say you are Vs Chaos Marines with Sv 3+, 4 toughness.

Vindicator cover around 6 model on average I finds, if direct hit, then 6 S10 hits at 2+ to wound casing instant death, 6 dead marines.

Predator shoots 10 shots, one for each model, all hit on 3+, 2 wound on 2+, 6 wound on 3+ and 2 wound on 4+. Saves are allowed for every one.

If the shot scatters, chances are it will still land on an enemy model, and it’s highly likely they will die.

Hence why I prefer vindicators, even if they are not barrage :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi
thanks for all of your input.
I have altered the army slightly while trying not to spend too much actual money, as i'm only a poor student :p.
Also if it helps I currently have all the models listed in my previous post + 5 scouts with sniper rifles and a space marine captain.
Here is the revised list, any feed back is appreciated.
Thanks.
HQ
Space Marine Chaplin
Terminator Armor with storm bolter
-130
I'm not sure if i should replace this with a librarian to run with the sternguard??

Troops

Tactical Squad
5-extra men
Plasma Cannon
Flamer
Power weapon
-190

Tactical Squad
5-extra men
Melta
Power weapon
Teleport Homer
Missile launcher
Rhino
-235

Elites
Terminator Assault Squad
TH/SS
-200I really want to keep either the land-raider or the termies as I only recently brought them

Dreadnought
Twin-linked lascannon
Missile Launcher
-145

Sternguard Veteran Squad
Combi-flamer
Combi-melta
Rhino
-170
Fast Attack

Assault Squad
5-extra men
Power Weapon
-205

Heavy Support

Predator
Sponson Heavy Bolters
-85

Vindicator
Siege Shield
Extra Armour
-140
Total 1.5k
 

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HQ

Space Marine Chaplin
Terminator Armor with storm bolter
-130

Yeah drop for a librarian with Null Zone and Gate of Infinity. Run them with the sternguard. This also free's up 30 points.

Troops

Tactical Squad
5-extra men
Plasma Cannon
Flamer
Power weapon
-190

Drop the plasma cannon for either a missile launcher or heavy bolter. Flamer is anti-infantry, so the heavy weapons should be for this as well. It's more effective to have a squad kitted out for one purpose than 2, have the other tactical for anti-tank if you want anti-tank tacticals. Give them either a rhino or razorback as well. Razorbacks are better for holding objectives, but you won't be able to get any marines in their unless you combat squad them.

Tactical Squad
5-extra men
Melta
Power weapon
Teleport Homer
Missile launcher
Rhino
-235

Going for anti-tank, I thing this is good. Power fist could be a better investment as it is going against armour. Keep the rhino. 250 points is expensive though for a squad though.

Elites

Terminator Assault Squad
TH/SS
-200I really want to keep either the land-raider or the termies as I only recently brought them

Will these be deepstriking? Other than that I like it.

Dreadnought
Twin-linked lascannon
Missile Launcher
-145

Not sure on this, I would rather drop this and put the points towards a LR for the terminators or a vindicator...probably the vindicator.

Sternguard Veteran Squad
Combi-flamer
Combi-melta
Rhino
-170

Drop the Rhino, and give them a razorback instead. Remember, they don't actually have to ride in it at all, so the extra firepower will be good, and you can fit the librarian and the 5 sternguard in the razorback anyway. Plus the libbys gate of infinity will get you further than the razorback could, so long as you pass the psychic test.

Fast Attack

Assault Squad
5-extra men
Power Weapon
-205



Heavy Support

Predator
Sponson Heavy Bolters
-85

Add an additional storm bolter, other than looks good.

Vindicator
Siege Shield
Extra Armour
-140

not sure on the siege shield, depends on your style of play and if it's really worth going into dangerous terrain.

Total 1.5k
Doing my suggestions, you have around 1360 points, so 140 spare. For this you could add a scout squad with LS storm, and give them the teleport homer, bringing it up to around 1485, then buff up the squads you got at the moment, or you could add another vindicator (probably what I would do) for 115, bringing you to around 1475.
 

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Hmm I think this list lacks a bit of long range fire-power, has any body got any suggestions?
I feel like you have things a bit more pimped out than they need to be, and may be able to fit in more long-range fire.

HQ
Space Marine Chaplin
Terminator Armor with storm bolter
-130

I really feel Librarian is the answer here.

Troops
Tactical Squad
5-extra men
Plasma Cannon
Flamer
Power weapon
-190

I suggest just plain old ml/flamer on this squad; or ml/meltagun.

Tactical Squad
5-extra men
Melta
Power weapon
Teleport Homer
Missile launcher
Rhino
-235

I feel like the Homer won't prove as helpful as you'd hope.

Elites
Terminator Assault Squad
TH/SS
-200

Absolutely keep the termies, but don't DS them in. Walk them on.

Dreadnought
Twin-linked lascannon
Missile Launcher
-145

Sternguard Veteran Squad
Combi-flamer
Combi-melta
Rhino
-170

I feel these guys are under-equipped. I would at least double-up on both combi-weapons. In a casual game, just use 'counts-as'. Also, I would consider extra armour for this tank. You might consider adding one long range weapon to this squad. Obviously that loses their great bolter, but adds long range, which you might need more.

Fast Attack

Assault Squad
5-extra men
Power Weapon
-205

I can't say much, but why not go with two flamers in this squad, just because you can :)


Heavy Support


Predator
Sponson Heavy Bolters
-85

Vindicator
Siege Shield
Extra Armour
-140

I would not bother with the SS. A DB will do equally well - a 1/36 chance of getting stuck is very unlikely to come up the couple of times you drive into difficult terrain per game.

Total 1.5k
 

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Very similar answers from me vonklaude, you should have decent feedback to edit some more :)
Very similar :)

At this point I would just quibble on the rhino for the Sternguard. They have extra good bolt guns, so you want them shooting out the hatch.

If a razorback is desired, an option would be to reduce a Tactical squad to 5-man, saving 80pts, and then give them a razorback with TLLC or TLPG/LC costing 75pts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hey Guys
Here is a slightly remade version of the list I think I managed to follow most of the suggestions....
Thanks for the help and feed-back on the new list would be greatly appreciated.
HQ
Librarian
Null zone, Gate of infinity
-100
Troops

Tactical Squad
5-extra men
Missile Launcher
Flamer
Power weapon
-185

Tactical Squad
5-extra men
Melta
Power weapon
Plasma Cannon
Razor Back
-230
Plan on combat squad-ing these guys and leaving the plasma cannon as long range support
Elites

Terminator Assault Squad
TH/SS
-200

Dreadnought
Twin-linked lascannon
Missile Launcher
-145
I like the idea of keeping this as long range support
Sternguard Veteran Squad
Combi-flamer x2
Combi-Melta x 2
Rhino
Extra Armour
-195
Fast Attack

Assault Squad
5-extra men
Power Weapon
Flamer
-215

Heavy Support

Predator
Sponson Heavy Bolters
Storm Bolter
-95

Vindicator
Extra Armor
Dozer Blade
-135
 

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I hope it turns out to help :)

Null zone should be useful against CSM. Melta, ml (krak), and plasma should be good against CSM and Necrons. Necrons don't like heavy flamers, but I'm not so sure how effective basic flamers will be against them. A decent alternative to Gate for your libby would be Avenger. Very strong against either opponent.
 
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