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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So, I am heading for a tourney and I want to bring some ulthwe guardians, but not just them! But they are still painted for that craftworld ulthwe. Love it) !!!This version is edited now!!! I am playing a Iyanden codex supplement.

Hq:
Farseer (100 pts)
Spiritseer - teuthlas spear (85 pts)

Troops:
2*10 guardians - shuriken cannon (210 pts)
2*Wave serpents - scatter lasers, holofields (270 pts)
5 wraithguards
Wave serpent - scatter, holofields (135 pts)
5 wraithguards - scythes (210 pts)
Wave serpent - scatter, holofields (135 pts)

Fast attack:
2*5 warp spiders

So yeah... I took Iyanden detachment for their spear and primaris power. Fatseer sticks with one unit of guardians. Spiritseer sticks with basic wraithguards. Spiders are fun, why not. So judge please and give me some advices.)
 

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Welcome to Heresy Online @Lordy of chaos

It looks good although I have a couple of questions.

Can you take Iyanden as an ally to Eldar as they come from the same codex? Its not something I was aware you could do (I'm not saying you can't I just didn't know you could).

Also what are you using for anti air cover? I know wave serpents are pretty useful against light vehicles but I think you will have trouble against something like a stormraven or Helldrake.
 

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Sadly, Eldar can't really ally the codex with the supplement. Everyone else got that party except us. Luckily, however, this list is completely legal in the bounds of a single FoC anyway.

Serpents and Spiders together can provide more than adequate AA, but what the list really lacks is some sort of option to deal with heavy vehicle armor from a distance. The only thing in the list that poses a serious threat to AV 13+ are the Wraithguard, one unit in particular. How to fill that role is the question. You could put Lances on the Serpents, but that would cut AA power. You could drop the Spear, Shuriken Cannons, and a squad of Spiders for some War Walkers with Lances or a Prism with Holo-Fields.

TBH its not a problem you will run into much of, but in a competitive setting its good to be prepared for all occasions. AA, AV (heavy or not), AI (heavy, light, or MC). You have most of those covered, but Land Raiders and the like are becoming popular again so be ready for them.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Welcome to Heresy Online @Lordy of chaos

It looks good although I have a couple of questions.

Can you take Iyanden as an ally to Eldar as they come from the same codex? Its not something I was aware you could do (I'm not saying you can't I just didn't know you could).

Also what are you using for anti air cover? I know wave serpents are pretty useful against light vehicles but I think you will have trouble against something like a stormraven or Helldrake.
Well... Yes, missed the point with the detachment. I can make it a Iyanden Ulthwe army, what would be hilarious. I mean using supplement as a main codex.

With anti-cover, anti-air: I always rush with my serpents all close to an enemy, so basically I can always fire the back armour of helldrakes. With storm raven I just need to concentrate a fire. That's what I am planning to do. Everything else with cover will die horribly from serpents.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Sadly, Eldar can't really ally the codex with the supplement. Everyone else got that party except us. Luckily, however, this list is completely legal in the bounds of a single FoC anyway.

Serpents and Spiders together can provide more than adequate AA, but what the list really lacks is some sort of option to deal with heavy vehicle armor from a distance. The only thing in the list that poses a serious threat to AV 13+ are the Wraithguard, one unit in particular. How to fill that role is the question. You could put Lances on the Serpents, but that would cut AA power. You could drop the Spear, Shuriken Cannons, and a squad of Spiders for some War Walkers with Lances or a Prism with Holo-Fields.

TBH its not a problem you will run into much of, but in a competitive setting its good to be prepared for all occasions. AA, AV (heavy or not), AI (heavy, light, or MC). You have most of those covered, but Land Raiders and the like are becoming popular again so be ready for them.
I agree with everything, but I think that wraithguards would be able to deal with anything. Mc like riptides, vechiles like land raider. This unit can handle it. Also I have another unit, and thanks for distort rule it can bring chaos and pain either. That's just my opinion... Ranged anti tank is not really needed. But I still think about it.
 

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Generally heavy tanks like LandRaiders are taken to store scary Terminators (or likewise) units. You generally want to tank to die as far away from your squishy Eldar as possible.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Generally heavy tanks like LandRaiders are taken to store scary Terminators (or likewise) units. You generally want to tank to die as far away from your squishy Eldar as possible.
If there is a terminator unit, I'll try to bring my second unit of Wraithguards closer, so after land raider is dead I will obliterate terminators with scythes. I tried that ones, hope it would work on a tourney)
 

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A Posit if you will

Lets say at this tourney you are fighting Tau (not that improbable) and you fight a Tau player who has 1+ units of Crisis Suits with Missile pods, or 1+ units of Sky Rays. What do you plan to do if they Marker you to remove the save on the serpents and burn you down with 3+ glancing hits? Right now you have nothing to stop this and you can lose 2+ serpents per turn. Once you lose the tanks, that's basically it.

The best thing you can do to prevent this from the Tau (or even other armies that can ignore cover) is to include a Skysheild Landing pad for that 4+ invul, this is especially important if you go second.

The "main" issue with the currently proposed list is that the MAJORITY if your firepower is from the 8'-12' band, with the remainder basically hovering around 24' inches(not including the Serpent shield shot). You REALLY should look at taking something besides the SLs so you can handle someone taking a Land Raider or any of the AV 14 fortifications.

While the following greatly depends on your current player base, at 1500 you have no AA, yes yes the serpents can "do" AA duty..kinda, but are really only effective vs AV 10, if someone throws even two AV 12 flyers you can't actually do anything to stop them, thus a single Storm Raven or 2 Helldrakes will basically ruin you, especially since they can line up rear armor shots easily. Just something to think about as all of your firepower/presence seems to be in those serpents.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
A Posit if you will

Lets say at this tourney you are fighting Tau (not that improbable) and you fight a Tau player who has 1+ units of Crisis Suits with Missile pods, or 1+ units of Sky Rays. What do you plan to do if they Marker you to remove the save on the serpents and burn you down with 3+ glancing hits? Right now you have nothing to stop this and you can lose 2+ serpents per turn. Once you lose the tanks, that's basically it.

The best thing you can do to prevent this from the Tau (or even other armies that can ignore cover) is to include a Skysheild Landing pad for that 4+ invul, this is especially important if you go second.

The "main" issue with the currently proposed list is that the MAJORITY if your firepower is from the 8'-12' band, with the remainder basically hovering around 24' inches(not including the Serpent shield shot). You REALLY should look at taking something besides the SLs so you can handle someone taking a Land Raider or any of the AV 14 fortifications.

While the following greatly depends on your current player base, at 1500 you have no AA, yes yes the serpents can "do" AA duty..kinda, but are really only effective vs AV 10, if someone throws even two AV 12 flyers you can't actually do anything to stop them, thus a single Storm Raven or 2 Helldrakes will basically ruin you, especially since they can line up rear armor shots easily. Just something to think about as all of your firepower/presence seems to be in those serpents.
Ok... Against tau it depends on their deployment. I have some combos in mind, but I am not sure...
I can take some lances instead of sl. Why not.
Anti-air? Well, give me the good advice, about what should I take against them. Walkers? Crimson? What? This all to fragile.
 

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Ok... Against tau it depends on their deployment. I have some combos in mind, but I am not sure...
I can take some lances instead of sl. Why not.
Anti-air? Well, give me the good advice, about what should I take against them. Walkers? Crimson? What? This all to fragile.
I dont have much time, so think on this.

You want to be able to reliably kill 2 AV 10 and 1 AV 12 a turn. Whatever you take needs to be able to survive 1-2 turns of ranged AT. If you can do that, then you will have all the AA you need at 1500.

Ideally you can also put 2-3 wounds on a flying MC as well. I wouldnt put it past Chaos to take 2 flying MCs
 

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You are absolutely right, Wraithguard with cannons should do very well against a Land Raider or an MC. The problem is that once they get out and shoot that one target they stand pretty good odds of getting shot to death or assaulted. WG without Scythes don't like to be assaulted. Basically, you can only count on one good turn of shooting from either unit. If you have more than one tough unit to deal with you are going to have some issues.

The problem with the anti-flyer plan is that while Serpents can handle AV 12 with combined fire, you aren't shooting the rest of his army that turn. That means odds are there will likely be a good number of other dangerous units in range to handle your Serpents and possibly their contents.

Also, don't be so harsh on Crimson Hunters. They are pretty fragile, but Vector Dancer really gives them a tremendous boost in reliability. You can skirt enemy ranges easily and stay outside of retaliating flyer flight arcs. The only worry they might have is Interceptor and Serpent fire can and should thin that out first turn as a deserving priority. Once on the board, CH are nasty vehicle/MC killers, especially against flyers.

I would probably lose the Farseer, though. He honestly doesn't add too much to the list besides a buff a single unit. I assume he is going with the cannon WG to Guide/Prescience/Fortune/Forewarning them. While that should boost the units effectiveness for one turn, it won't help them much beyond the turn they get out of the transport (if they were buffed at all if and when the transport is wrecked a turn early). Those points may be better spent elsewhere in the list.

I don't know about the ShurCans on the Guardians either. As a transport unit mostly kitted for AI, they shouldn't be seeing much use against any thing that a few rendy S6 would be needed for. That Cannon would see better use on a Serpent where it could be twin-linked for less points, leaving the Guardians to focus on normal infantry. The cannon DOES boost the wound range for the unit, but they shouldn't be getting out unless they are ready to devastate a unit anyway. For 5 more points the Cannons could be BL and contribute to early game ranged AT. That could possibly open up those Land Raiders so the WG dont have to and can the WG and Serps can focus more on the squishy troops than the cans they were in.
 
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