>> I purchased the new Eldar codex, and am kinda liking Ulthwe. Problem is, with there being no separate craftworld list in the book, how could I go about making an Ulthwe army? I know about the Seer Council, which would be easy to make, but the rest I'm stuck on. Any tips/help appreciated. And I not paying £6 for olde craftworld dex. Cheers
Ulthwe, How?
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seer village, war walkers, vypers, d cannons etc, lots of guardians, 0-1 aspect other than reapers, preponderance for dark reapers, avoid heavy tanks..... thats basically it tbh or you could screw it and just do what you want 
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i think you have to set yourself limits on what you can and cant take based on the fluff of the craftworld, and the old army book if you have it.
Im told there is a new craftworld eldar coming out soon, but i dunno if it is true or not.
the new eldar codex gave a bit of a nerf to the idea of craftworld eldar.
Im told there is a new craftworld eldar coming out soon, but i dunno if it is true or not.
the new eldar codex gave a bit of a nerf to the idea of craftworld eldar.
Really to make an ultwe style list you just have to base yourself around Farseers/warlocks and Guardians. Take at least 1 farseer[eldrad prehaps] and 5-10 warlocks. Then take at least your compulsary troops as guardians with weapon platforms, probably more
everything else fits within an ultwe list as long as you have a strong base of guardians and seers
everything else fits within an ultwe list as long as you have a strong base of guardians and seers
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Really you'd be best just studying the eye of terror codex and customising it to accomodate the new rules, as this will lead to a fluffy and effective force.
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doubt it, really do. Especially as Phil wrote the book to do away with craftworld lists and allow ppl to tailor as they see fit.cccp_one said:
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Yep, nothing like total freedom to restrict you.cccp_one said:
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Total freedom is the exact opposite of what the codex does, Uber. I own it, read it daily, and play Eldar. I've played them since 2nd edition as well.
It far from gives them 'total freedom'. It does, as you say, allow them to freely take units without major restrictions, but that in itself is the major restriction. It prevents, with a hammering fist, the use of specific craftworld armies and leaves the Eldar floating in Vanilla Marine land.
What's the use of have freedom to pick my units for Biel-Tan when my major Aspects are once again Elite? What's the use of playing Ulthwe's dreaded seer council army if you can't even purchase it? BUT! You have TOTAL FREEDOM to choose the few units that cannot whatsoever create the Craftworld of your choice, but again it's all about having the choice.
I've ranted about this a little bit because I keep hearing the 'options' crap. Eldar ARE craftworlds, pure and simple, and the freedom of restricting them all to the same type is sad at most. They are still powerful, yes, with 'some' options, but they aren't Eldar as they should be. Just look at the Autarch's wargear. Total freedom my arse there.
-Khaine-
It far from gives them 'total freedom'. It does, as you say, allow them to freely take units without major restrictions, but that in itself is the major restriction. It prevents, with a hammering fist, the use of specific craftworld armies and leaves the Eldar floating in Vanilla Marine land.
What's the use of have freedom to pick my units for Biel-Tan when my major Aspects are once again Elite? What's the use of playing Ulthwe's dreaded seer council army if you can't even purchase it? BUT! You have TOTAL FREEDOM to choose the few units that cannot whatsoever create the Craftworld of your choice, but again it's all about having the choice.
I've ranted about this a little bit because I keep hearing the 'options' crap. Eldar ARE craftworlds, pure and simple, and the freedom of restricting them all to the same type is sad at most. They are still powerful, yes, with 'some' options, but they aren't Eldar as they should be. Just look at the Autarch's wargear. Total freedom my arse there.
-Khaine-
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Irony?uberschveinen said:
I dont have to agree With Wrath of Khaine on this. The Changes to the codex ARE a craftworld nerf, and will vanilla has been improved the old craftwords have mostly suffered. Sure you can play a theme army, and go with lots of Rangers and call yourself Aliatoc, but its delusional to think that the army has somehow gained from the the new codex. Its like if they got rid of spacewolves and said, but you can take marines with bolters and true grip and assault marines withour jumppacks There you go you have spacewolves.
Now there is no doubt that there were problems with some of the old craftworlds, however nothing that was not fixable. I don't think Anyone would have minded if the seercoucil stayed, but the farseers counted as IC's and the warlocks were as they are now, starting with witchblades as standard[no more 11pt wounds]
I really like disruption as a mechanic, if they had made it so that Only pathfinders got it then i think it would have been fine. Pathfinders got nerfed in many other ways as well anyway.
I had expected biel tan to survive in the form of something like choose one apsect, one unit per unit of direavengers in your army may be taken as a troop choice with certain restrictions on which aspects could be chosen
Now there is no doubt that there were problems with some of the old craftworlds, however nothing that was not fixable. I don't think Anyone would have minded if the seercoucil stayed, but the farseers counted as IC's and the warlocks were as they are now, starting with witchblades as standard[no more 11pt wounds]
I really like disruption as a mechanic, if they had made it so that Only pathfinders got it then i think it would have been fine. Pathfinders got nerfed in many other ways as well anyway.
I had expected biel tan to survive in the form of something like choose one apsect, one unit per unit of direavengers in your army may be taken as a troop choice with certain restrictions on which aspects could be chosen
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I am sorry but I will have to disagree with Wrathe of Khaine. Craftworld list should not be about getting a load of major advantages, disruptions, 60 man seer councils, BS4 guardians etc for free with very little downside. It's about creating an army that follows the general background of the craftworld.
Ulthwe - take two farseers a bunch of warlocks (twice as many as other craft worlds can take) Black guardians - take lots and guardians and paint them black.
Saim Hain - its very easy to make a 1,500 point all jet bike/vyper/mounted list
An all aspect army is also pretty easy to do.
Ditto for Iyanden
They are all perfectly doable.
Just because all the free toys have been toned down it does not make it impossible to field a fluffy craftworld list it just requires a little bit of imagination.
In my opinion this is possibly the best codex I have seen come out of Games Development in terms on balance, options and flexibility.
Ulthwe - take two farseers a bunch of warlocks (twice as many as other craft worlds can take) Black guardians - take lots and guardians and paint them black.
Saim Hain - its very easy to make a 1,500 point all jet bike/vyper/mounted list
An all aspect army is also pretty easy to do.
Ditto for Iyanden
They are all perfectly doable.
Just because all the free toys have been toned down it does not make it impossible to field a fluffy craftworld list it just requires a little bit of imagination.
In my opinion this is possibly the best codex I have seen come out of Games Development in terms on balance, options and flexibility.
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I have to agree with the love child. Many opportunities were lost for powergamers but I don't think anybody else has really suffered.
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I now like this person. As you may have guessed, this is a rare event.Glen Roeder's love child said:
GW did not 'destroy' the Craftworlds. They are still capable of being built. Even more so, you can now make your own. What they have done is nerf the previously-dominant Craftworld lists, which were quite deserving of such an action. Nerfing is something any once-overly-potent army has to deal with, you are in no way special in this regard.
from my point of view at least it is not the power of the lists that is missed, it is the individuality of them. If they got rid of Darkangels, Bloodangels, spacewolves and black templars and said you can use the trait marines instead then would this be a good thing for the game? The fact is there is absolutely no difference now from one eldar force to the next. I can play "aliatoc" and take 6 jetbike squads if i choose to, or ultwe and take no guardians. They could have easily just looked more closely at the balance issues of the lists in question and changed the rules accordingly. i don't see how getting rid of variety in any way helps the game. Im not saying eldar are now unplayable, but just that there is less variety than before.
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In the way you are saying the Eldar are good and balanced, you might as well say no more Marine players can use anything but Codex Space Marines. Sure, lots of options, broad range of selection, traits to tinker with.. But that does not sum up Marines as a whole, which is why they would release a codex per major chapter. Try telling every BA and DA player that codex Space Marines is fine for them and they aren't getting nerfed; you will hear alot of complaining and disagreement there too.
The over-powered bits of craftworld eldar is the development teams responsibility to fix, not totally remove. I want to see multi-farseer Ulthwe with seer councils. I want to see Court of the Young Kings. I want to see some sort of Disruption table. I want to see some specific Wild Rider options, even Iyanden-specific traits.
You might say, Hey! Codex Space Marine is the same. Wrong. That trait system is still a big leap in customizing your chapter, by giving it powers and restrictions. Eldar might have intermittent little powers, but nothing of that nature. It is a balanced codex, is does give larger assortment than 3rd editions meager list, but it failed huge where it was supposed to have a spot for craftworlds, nerfing every eldar player that used one, which is nearly every single one.
I'll agree, it's a good codex, sure. Has some great rules in there and beneficial changes for the Eldar, yeah. But that isn't the point. The point is that is did very much nerf every eldar player except the super-just-started newbs who didn't know much about craftworlds.
I enjoy the codex and will use it to get as close to my old Biel-Tan as possible, but it won't be the same. You might say taking aspect as troops is overpowerful, but it leaves me generally wide open for heavy gunfire as they are as expensive if not more than marines, especially after upgrades. The benefits of the craftworld lists were their downfalls, as people wanted to blow all their points on powerful units. Deathwing, Ravenwing, these aren't s different. Nerfed, I say.
-Khaine-
The over-powered bits of craftworld eldar is the development teams responsibility to fix, not totally remove. I want to see multi-farseer Ulthwe with seer councils. I want to see Court of the Young Kings. I want to see some sort of Disruption table. I want to see some specific Wild Rider options, even Iyanden-specific traits.
You might say, Hey! Codex Space Marine is the same. Wrong. That trait system is still a big leap in customizing your chapter, by giving it powers and restrictions. Eldar might have intermittent little powers, but nothing of that nature. It is a balanced codex, is does give larger assortment than 3rd editions meager list, but it failed huge where it was supposed to have a spot for craftworlds, nerfing every eldar player that used one, which is nearly every single one.
I'll agree, it's a good codex, sure. Has some great rules in there and beneficial changes for the Eldar, yeah. But that isn't the point. The point is that is did very much nerf every eldar player except the super-just-started newbs who didn't know much about craftworlds.
I enjoy the codex and will use it to get as close to my old Biel-Tan as possible, but it won't be the same. You might say taking aspect as troops is overpowerful, but it leaves me generally wide open for heavy gunfire as they are as expensive if not more than marines, especially after upgrades. The benefits of the craftworld lists were their downfalls, as people wanted to blow all their points on powerful units. Deathwing, Ravenwing, these aren't s different. Nerfed, I say.
-Khaine-
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