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Discussion Starter #1
After a nailbiting second day at the heats I finally managed to qualify at the final hurdle with my BA's leaving me a good few months to finish up my Eldar!
Decided to make yet another change (final! ) this time switching alliances to Ulthwe converting up a cheeky mounted Seer council.
The Idea Is to attach the Autarch and Seer to the Warlocks and casting fortune giving them a re-rollable 3+*/4+* to get around the board safely. Early on I'll look to the warlocks/Farseer to pop tanks and use mind war to cripple mobility and take out the major threats. Once squads are dwindled via the bikes and heavies the Autarch, Seer Council and Harlies can move In for the kill with their flameage, lance, and rending goodness.
Seem like fun anyhow, all c+c welcome!
See you all at the final,
Cheers,
LongBeard (Matt)

HQ
Autarch: Jetbike, Laser-Lance, Fusion Gun, Mandi-Blasters
(140pts)

HQ
Farseer: Jetbike, Spear, Fortune, Mind-War, Spirit Stones, Warding (173pts)

Warlock: Jetbike, Singing Spear, Destructor
Warlock: Jetbike, Singing Spear, Destructor
Warlock: Jetbike, Singing Spear, Destructor
Warlock: Jetbike, Singing Spear, Embolden
Warlock: Jetbike, Singing Spear, Enhance
Warlock: Jetbike, Singing Spear
(338pts)

TROOPS
3 x Guardian Jetbikes: Shuriken Cannon
(76pts)

TROOPS
3 x Guardian Jetbikes: Shuriken Cannon
(76pts)

ELITES
6 x Harlequins: Shadowseer, 6 x Kisses (162pts)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Falcon: Holofield, Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines, 2 x Shuriken Cannons
(195pts)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Fire Prism: Holofield, Spirit Stones, Shuriken Cannon
(170pts)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Fire Prism: Holofield, Spirit Stones, Shuriken Cannon
(170pts)

(1500pts)
 

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Why Ulthwe? Looks more like a saim hann list - you fed up of painting red?
List looks strong.
You could ditch the prisms for another harlie/falcon lump.
 

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wow, heavy hitter
i think your relying to much on vehicles, remember, in combat, they cant do much.
thats pretty much a firepower army
hmm, test it out against a couple of armies
i cant see much wrong with it though
 

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when i read ultwe, i thought this could be interesting, but no its the same old mech list all the eldar players are using. Having used the jetbike seercouncil at the gt i can tell you it either works awesomely or it becomes a point sink real fast. Anytime you play someone with a psychic hood your down to fortune working half the time, which when a unit costs 651pts you really can't afford it not to work half the time. Yeah the jetbikers will rip apart tanks etc very well and destructor can work a treat too, i used to use it to take out whole guardian squads back when real ultwe were about and then late in the game turn it against the seer council.

I dont think there are enough targets to make the army work and alot of points tied up in one unit, albiet an awesome one. When i used it it was great and won me games on there own sometimes, but i had 12 other units in the army and you have 6, 2 of which don't really count.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Council Complete! :D
Got my first game on Monday against Fallen Angels Nidzilla, nice easy matchup to start off with then! :eek:
Batreps/painting progress to follow.....
All C+C welcome,
Cheers,
Matt (LongBeard)

 

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It looks mean but like most of the Eldar armies I've seen too much seems to be invested in the tanks.

A lot of the Eldar armies I saw at heat 1 yoyo'd largely due their tanks. Either they'd be indestructable or blow up in a slight breeze. Along with your very expensive warlock council I think you'll struggle to recover from any bouts of bad luck.

On a more constructive note I would consider only giving half the seercouncil singing spears and the rest leave with their witchblades. Currently the unit lacks enough attacks to me. Wounding on 2+ is great and all but with only 7 attacks from the unit it won't kill stuff quickly and that autarch only ignores armour on the charge. Get caught out and they won't leave combat for a long time.

Also the harlies, don't forget that due to the current FAQ they'll have to be on the table in escalation, all by themselves. Fair enough this won't be a major issue against most opponents but occasionally they might well be caught out and cut down before reinforcements arrive. (Not many armies may be able to do this but Ravenwing certainly can.)
 

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I actually think this army would suffer quite badly to my double lash all infantry chaos. I guess that's a good thing, though I won't be at the final anyway :(

It's basically too fragile. The flying council is tough but will struggle to get through even something like a big unit of orcs. Imagine if a death company hits it. Your opponent doesn't really have to kill this unit, it will be bad enough for you if he can just hold it up and maybe get it below half strength.

As stated above, eldar skimmers are often amazing, occasionally catastrophically bad. That makes them a good choice for qualifying but not a great one for actually winning a tournament. Sometimes you get a gamma set up, the other guy goes first, and you feel pain.

I hope I'm wrong and it does work. I think a flying seer council is really cool and offers great modeling opportunities, but I can't see how spending ~650 points on a unit can ever be a tournament winning formula. Game winning sometimes, but not consistent over 6 games. Even the 20 strong seer councils in the "bad old days" tended to come in at not much over 400 points.
 

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This doesn't look like an Ulthwe force at all. I think the min/maxing is weak too. The army is too fragile, even for Eldar, and won't hold up against many armies. Very low model count.
 

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That is precisely the command squad I've been using for the past few months, with a small variation

The autarch goes with a power weapon instead of the lance. I've found that what usually happens with the squad is that it ends up in protracted HtH fights, and obviously the laser lance isn't much help there. However, a regular power weapon with...

Farseer has doom. Goes hand in hand with the PW for the autarch. I understand your idea with the mindwar, but I'd play test it to find out wich option is going to work better for you overall. Either option is solid, go picking off individual models or have him go in with the squad to chop down opposition. Only reason I go with Doom is to put them in HtH asap and get as much mileage out of the autarch ASAP. At 1500 with 2 fire prisims You have a fairly flexable force there that can deal with your threats in just about any way you want. In this army list I'd see the major role for this squad as occupying large/uber units (such as a nasty unit of a Seercouncil on jetbikes:) ) from interfering with what your Harlies do best (wiping out regular squads of 10 or less).

On a side note go with Witchblades if you plan on using them this way. The extra attack from the blade/pistol will come in handy when the unit gets bogged down. One nice thing about this squad is nigh to invulnerable with fortune. Last tournament I played in 3 devilfish Fish of furried infront of this squad, 52 shots later I didn't lose a single model.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Gaz from FLAME ON! (1st Heat 3) has tried to recommend the PW on the Autarch and I can see the advanatges especially with DOOM! which would also enhance the destructors, may have to try that one out. I still think having the Autarch detached from the Council but with the lance would be more efficient giving him the chance to counter charge anything that catches them while using his IC status to stay hidden from any Incoming shots.
I've played 4 games now with the list losing to double lash (got caught In combat!) then winning heavy the next game (not getting caught!), also played Gaz's winning list last night getting a narrow loss which ain't a bad thing considering the run he's been on and finally a heavy victory against Skuzz's Termie hoard.
From the first few games I've learnt a fair bit about the council and It's capabilities and have decided on a few minor but advantageous changes:

HQ
Autarch: Jetbike, Laser-Lance, Reaper-Launcher, Mandi-Blasters
(155pts)

With 7 spears the fusion gun Is a tad overkill and with the council having to go on the defensive from time to time having Mind War along with the ranged JSJ AP3 should prove to be far more useful.

HQ
Farseer: Jetbike, Spear, Fortune, Mind-War, Spirit Stones, Warding (173pts)

6 x Warlocks: Jetbikes, 6 x Spears, 3 x Destructor, 1 x Embolden
(323pts)

Dropped enhance to make way for the reaper, these guys I've learned REALLY shouldn't be In combat against anything ,with their lack of attacks they Just don't cut It so It makes way for the Reaper.

TROOPS
3 x Guardian Jetbikes: Shuriken Cannon
(76pts)

TROOPS
3 x Guardian Jetbikes: Shuriken Cannon
(76pts)

ELITES
6 x Harlequins: 6 x Kisses (162pts)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Falcon: Holofield, Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines, 2 x Shuriken Cannons
(195pts)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Fire Prism: Holofield, Spirit Stones, Shuriken Cannon
(170pts)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Fire Prism: Holofield, Spirit Stones, Shuriken Cannon
(170pts)

(1500pts)

WIP Falcon:
 

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It seems you're tending toward a ranged function for this unit, which is a little different from the way I use it, but just as valid a use. Only thing I could think of to add is to think about dropping a 'lock to make room for an enhance in the squad. With the short range of the spears you're likely to end up having to be in HTH, and hitting on three's while your opponent hit's on 4's can make all the difference (also, if the autarch is in the unit, there is little else in the game that attacks at I 7).

Also, a nasty little trick I've picked up: Start out with the Autarch in the unit, cast fortune on it, THEN detach him in the movement phase. That way even if he ends up being closer to your enemy he still gets fortune. Just keep attaching and re-attaching as you see fit to keep him alive.
 

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i used to do that in the old rules with my seer council and avatar,but in the new rule book FAQ or gt faq states you only keep fortune on 1 of the units.

how is the game testing going with the seer council what are your targets and what arnt they good at, im tempter for a small squad of 3-4 warlocks with spears and jetbikes, purlly for anti-tank poping in and out throwing spears at heavy units and tanks.

martin
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
So far It's going pretty well, I've come away with two wins and two losses against some of the top FLAME ON! lot so no easy games so far!!:wink:
As far as targets are concerned I'm still learning but lone tanks tend to be easy pickings and dwindled squads can be fried with destructors backed up by Mind war and the reaper.
I'm definately on a steep learning curve with these guys at the moment but to start with I think using the reaper and mind war at range seems the best bet then once a unit becomes Isolated they go In for the kill, If my oppoenent castles up to avoid this the prisms can hit from range leaving the Council to score heavily dependant on mission.
Also after a few games It's vital that the Autarch stays detatched so that If the council gets charged he still gets his lance charge In the same can be said of the Harlies keeping the Taxi within striking distance should they be required.
Overall I think the list plays as a major denial list chipping away over six turns while the holofields and JSJ'ing keeps everything nice and safe!(hopefully)
im tempter for a small squad of 3-4 warlocks with spears and jetbikes, purlly for anti-tank poping in and out throwing spears at heavy units and tanks.
I do think a small squad of 3-4 could work but then would you fork out for the fortuned farseer as well to keep them safe or rely strictly on turbo'ing Into position?
I'm playing a decent Necron list on Monday, so I'll be sure to add a batrep to the thread at some point Monday/Tuesday.....
Cheers for the feedback,
Matt
 

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HQ
Autarch: Jetbike, Laser-Lance, Reaper-Launcher, Mandi-Blasters
(155pts)
Interesting and very useful build, I've used it also and it truely is an awesome support unit that can do some serious HtH when needed.

HQ
Farseer: Jetbike, Spear, Fortune, Mind-War, Spirit Stones, Warding (173pts)
Holy freaking points heavy.... I never run anything this heavy; but I can see the potential.

6 x Warlocks: Jetbikes, 6 x Spears, 3 x Destructor, 1 x Embolden
(323pts)
I run a Squad of 4 Warlocks, JB's, 2 Spears, 2 Destructors, Embolden and Enhane and it works very well as a get close, do the job, and get out squad.....that can go to HtH if needed. I think having 6 Warlocks in one spot is too big a footprint and too much of a Big-Bullet-Magent to give to any enemy.

TROOPS
3 x Guardian Jetbikes: Shuriken Cannon
(76pts)
With soem of the points you could trim off of the Warlock retinue, you could actually add a Destructor and Spear JB Warlcok to this squad and make it much more versatile and effective.

TROOPS
3 x Guardian Jetbikes: Shuriken Cannon
(76pts)
Same as above.

ELITES
6 x Harlequins: 6 x Kisses (162pts)
Solid, I use htis as my principle CC unit and I will atest to its effectiveness.

HEAVY SUPPORT
Falcon: Holofield, Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines, 2 x Shuriken Cannons
(195pts)
I normally go with 1 Shuri-cannon and the Cat; but thats just to save points. This is another great unit.

HEAVY SUPPORT
Fire Prism: Holofield, Spirit Stones, Shuriken Cannon
(170pts)
Read below.

HEAVY SUPPORT
Fire Prism: Holofield, Spirit Stones, Shuriken Cannon
(170pts)
Why run Shuri-cannons on a vehicle that should be way out of enemy range?... I would use the points to get another JB in the Troops.

Well, I see this as a Saim-Hann/Bahhakazan list... but you can call it what you like. It should be pretty solid; but, serious compitition (eldar and Tau) lists will give you trouble as they can easily handle 3 Grav tanks and minimal figure armies.
 

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HQ
Autarch: Jetbike, Laser-Lance, Reaper-Launcher, Mandi-Blasters
(155pts)
I'd normally be heavily against the laser lance, as stated earlier. But keeping the autarch seperate will deffinitely pay off, so long as it's workin.

HQ
Farseer: Jetbike, Spear, Fortune, Mind-War, Spirit Stones, Warding (173pts)
Solid build.
6 x Warlocks: Jetbikes, 6 x Spears, 3 x Destructor, 1 x Embolden
(323pts)
I personally only roll with the minimum 3 locks. Keeps the points down and the squad does just as well as a fire sink, because people are scared to death of this squad. Ditching the extra 3 locks might get you another squad of bikes as well.

TROOPS
3 x Guardian Jetbikes: Shuriken Cannon
(76pts)
Troop choice. Not much else to say.
TROOPS
3 x Guardian Jetbikes: Shuriken Cannon
(76pts)
See above.
ELITES
6 x Harlequins: 6 x Kisses (162pts)
Another solid choice.
HEAVY SUPPORT
Falcon: Holofield, Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines, 2 x Shuriken Cannons
(195pts)
Still the best tank in the game.
HEAVY SUPPORT
Fire Prism: Holofield, Spirit Stones, Shuriken Cannon
(170pts)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Fire Prism: Holofield, Spirit Stones, Shuriken Cannon
(170pts)
2 prisims= dead marines.
(1500pts)
TBH commenting on an Eldar army without watching someone play is like a doctor giving someone a physical without having seen their patient. An eldar army is less dependant on it's content, overall, than it is the way a commander uses the elements together. Harliquin's are a great unit, but a waste of points if they charge into a unit of 20 geanstealers.

But enough stupid answers you've doubtlessly learned already. Being as your HQ is litteraly half the points cost of your army, that's going to be the make/break point for you. I'd say that at the points limit this army opperates at one of the more solid tactics would be to find your opponents lynch pin and dismantle it with the Harlequin's support.

One piece of advice I can give you for certain is this: Watch out for anything that can deepstrike on turn one. Necron lord's with Veil, Dark Angel terminators, whatever. Best way for your army to fall apart is for them to DS on top of you and rapid fire into a unit costing half of your armies points (Yes, I do say this from experience). Best thing I can think to do is deploy a unit on either side within 6" of the unit to keep scare your opponent into DS'ng further away and out of RF range.
 

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Hi longbeard,

I really like your list as i feel a cc orientated council is a waste. At Heat 3 this year i faced a 10 man bike council of simone di tomaso, i manged to get a draw, as i held the council in combat so they couldnt cast fortune! The way you are playing it now imho is probably best so stick with it. Also is esgaylation, when the council arrives you cant cast fortune on them as powers (as stated in GT FAQ) are at the start of the turn, before reserves.

C U at the finals :)
 

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as i held the council in combat so they couldnt cast fortune!

Also is esgaylation, when the council arrives you cant cast fortune on them as powers (as stated in GT FAQ) are at the start of the turn, before reserves.
why couldnt you cash fortune in combat if its done at the start of the turn ???

martin
 
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