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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
well lets get down to business.
HQ-
Herald of Tzeentch- 130pts
Chariot of Tzeentch
Master of Sorcery
Bolt of Tzeentch

Herald of Tzeentch- 130pts
Chariot of Tzeentch
Master of Sorcery
Bolt of Tzeentch

Skulltaker- 175pts
Juggernaut

Elites-
4 Blood Crushers of Khorn- 160pts

3 Flamers of Tzeentch- 105pts

Troops
9 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch, Bolt of change- 163pts

10 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch, Bolt of change, The Changling- 185pts

10 Blood letters of Khorn- 160pts

10 Blood letters of Khorn- 160pts

Heavy Support-
Soul Grinder, Phlegm- 160

Soul Grinder, Phlegm- 160

Soul Grinder, Phlegm- 160
Well what does everyone think like on a scale of 1-10 how good is this list? 10 is being best thing ever and 1 is being crap in plastic form. Any changes or anything to the list, be harsh if needed.
 

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I would give it a solid 5/10- a decent list but many things you could improve.

Firstly the heralds are illegal- a mistake everyone makes when they first start using HoTs: you can only take 3 upgrades on each, not 4 as you have on these. Then again even if you could have that many upgrades I wouldnt take them: they make the heralds far too expensive. I would cut the icons off both of them as they are very expensive and you dont want the herlads that close anyway (if they are they'll end up in combat... meaning there wouldnt be any point using them as beacons for the flamers, which I assume is the plan).

10 flamers in a list is a little excessive, but not as bad as having them in 2 units. I would split them into 3 units of 3 if you want that many, but personally I use 2 units of 3 at 1500pts and have never really needed more (unless they've mishaped themselves to death- risk of using them agressively). Depending on how you use them I possibly would cut teh bolt off them- if you suicide them in really close to take out nasty enemy units then its not worth it, if you keep them further away from the enemy (which I dont suggest- you'll still die very quickly, possibly before you can get to grips with anything) then bolt is more worthwhile.

Then you find the units of Horrors- havinf that many horrors is great, but in 2 units they'll be toast. Big units have 2 disadvantages- if you get into combat the whole unit is tied into it (and being horrors you'll lose, but probably not very quickly) and when you do shoot something it'll die, but the unit next to it wont (but if you could split fire you can try for both). Small units only really have 1 downside- they give away KPs.
I use horrors in units of 5 with a bolt, until I fill all 6 troop FoCs, then I start making them a little larger. I think Im using something like 6*7 horrors in my 1500pt army currently (havent used it in a while). The huge bonus of that is that if you switched 2 units to 5 then you would have an extra 3 bolts in your army, and would lose little by shooting a vehicle, while do that now and you waste 51 S4 shots...
If you do cut the unit size down scrap the icons- they'll be too vulnerable and will die fast.
If you want an icon unit throw in a unit of 5-7 plaguebearers with the icon... but in this list I would just cut them all and be a little reserved in DS placement, you'll rarely have any problems (and if you lose less then 100pts a game via mishaps then you're better off then taking the 4 icons).

Many people dont like screamers, and if you get more responses almost all of them will tell you to cut them.... but I love the little guys, they are the best tzeentch unit around. I tend to use 3*3 and find uses for them in almost every game. I drop them in early, far away from the enemy then turbo boost up turn 2 as most of my army hits the table, they can then draw combat units away from my army (suicide but can be important), chase tanks, force heavy support tanks to move (robbing them of their shooting, and eventually destroying them), destory the remnants of enemy squads (1-2 last guardsmen arent worth shooting with horros/flamers, but screamers can easily take them out) or just survive till late in the game and jump onto enemy held objectives to block them- some games I've know that I've won by turn 5 since I know the enemy cant get to my objective and I have 3 screamer units able to jump onto his turns 5, 6 and 7 which they cant stop...


The only other suggestion I could make would be to cut a few points (all icons and bolts on the flamers is a good start) and you'll be able to afford a greater daemon. Either a bloodthirster or a lord of change would be great choice and gives you anti-tank powers as well as a nice beefy combat unit.... and all the firepower you can draw into a GD will pull fire away from your troops (always good) since the enemy will target the flamers first, the GD second, probably bloodletters 3rd, chariots 4th and leave the horrors well alone... giving you lots of troops to play out the endgame (as well as having lots of bolts frying the enemy if you follow my advice).
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Wow that was one of the most useful things anyone has posted on my army lists.
Thank please wait while your suggestions are calculated.
List Edited-
 

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And as always, when fielding Crushers, field them in a unit of 4. Give them Fury, Icon, and a Musician. Now you have 4 different 2 wound Eternal Warrior models for wound allocation. Stick a Herald of Khorne in the on a Jugger or Skulltaker and watch the slaughter begin! :victory:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well no enough pts for another Blood Crusher so I am just gonna sub the Herald as the 4th.
So on a scale of 1-10 how good is this list? 10 is being best thing ever and 1 is being crap in plastic form.
 

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I would give it about a 6-7/10... but that sounds worse then it is. Daemons struggle to make the most powerful armies so I wouldnt ever give any daemon army a 10... and to get an 8-9 its down to spamming of the strongest units available (tzeentch chariots, fiends and plaguebearers) but I find that really dull. I normally deliberately build lists about as strong as yours- strong enough to compete with pretty much anything but quite beatable... my usual way of doing that is to stay mono-god. But then my mono-nurgle and mono-slaanesh can utterly clean house against some armies.

Generally though dont worry so much about how strong your army is- its more about how you use it. Learning how to use an army and how you want to alter it to suit your own playing style is far more important then getting the best list- there are a group of players who go to tournies with whatever list won the last tourny... and they have a bad rep since few of them really understand why the list won and so tend to do very badly (eg the leafblower list- first person to make it was incredibly successful with it, and some have successfully copied it, but so many people have tried and failed with ti that a lot of people now regard it as a crap build).
 

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No, if you want a really top-knotch daemon army search for Scuzzlebum's lists, his are about the best Ive seen... but as I said a great list with a great player that hasnt practiced with it wont do well... a poor list with a good player who knows the army inside out will beat almost everyone. Knowing your own army, how to use it against different enemies and what mistakes to avoid (and sacrifices that are good, or bad).
 

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Good Army list- 25%
Knowing how to use it- 50%
Luck- 25%

Thats how I would break down daemons... so if you take a great list that you have no idea how to use even if you get lucky you'll be trounced by almost everyone. But if you take a poor daemon list, use it fantastically and get a little luck on your side you'll win.

Your list is quite capable to winning, whether or not you can win with it is another question... and will probably require you to play quite a few games with it to find out- the first time you use a new list you'll almost always struggle with it, unless you can 'predict' how it would work in different situations... some poeple can do that and learn new armies/lists fast, some dont and have to have a lot of playtesting.
 

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your points are wrong on your heralds.....they should be 100 points. and id suggest giving them We are legion making them 110pts......

U can give them UP TO 3 of the gifts and the Chariot is a seperate option. So you could have......

Herald of Tzeentch......Charoit.....Bolt....Mastery of Sorc....and we are legion


Dont get how people think that is not legit.
 
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