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Discussion Starter #1
I have spent a while creating a 1500pts list for each god(and undevided) for something i can aim for with various armys and was considering toing my Tzeentch army at some point. I wanted it to be nice a fluffy hence some of the odd desions. I also wanted to keep combat troops to almsot non-existant levels and tzeentch don't tear your voice box...they fill it with holes.

:hq:
Ahriman - 250pts
:elites:
9 Chaos Terminators w/ 9 Combi-meltas, 3 power fists, Champion, Icon of tzeentch - 355pts
:troops:
9 Thousand Sons w/ Asp-Sorcerer, Bolt of Change, P-Icon - 274pts
9 Thousand Sons w/ Asp-Sorcerer, Bolt of Change - 269pts
:hs:
Vindicator - 125pts
Vindicator - 125pts
Rhino w/ Extra armour - 40pts
Rhino w/ Extra armour - 50pts

Total - 1498pts
I really wanted Ahriman for this list as i wanted him to jump out and blast tanks with 3 bolt of change per turn or something of the like...or lots of Chaos Spawn! *Kheeee!!:eek:k:*
The Vindicators are very much my anti-tank with Bolt of Change dealing with lighter armour. My T-sons can pop out of the Rhinos and fire there Bolt of Changes of(upto 5 per turn!!!) and will lend down fire support. They will only ever leave the rhinos if the have to and Ahriman will also try to stay in a rhino for protection.
The Terminators are both anti-mech and my combat troops sicne they are the only onces even capable in combat. I will be using the P-Icon's on Ahriman and the other Asp-sorcerer to bring them in without problems. I wanted 9 as anyone seeing 9 terminators with 4++ saves will scare people and 9 is the sacret number so i had to have 9. Personally i think it's very fluffy however i know i WILL be outnumbered in almsot every game but with lartge amount of magic, EVERY SINGLE MODAL able to blast out atleast AP3 weapons i shoudl be fine....as long as i'm not agianst Orks or Tyranids and then the numberes might beat me. Opions?
 

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Interesting I like the list, what I would do would be have one squad of tsons and ahriman stay back and spam them, while the icon tsons charge forward and the termies deepstrike with the p-icon, then the flock will be thinned by the shooting by the time the term ies get there, and then the termies will destroy what remains!:eek:k: (how do you like my tactics?)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
more or less mine but you have to remember that Ahriman also has a P-Icon standard(all 4 of the named gods servents do i belive). I dislike relying on jsut 1 Icon to bring down was will be very risky without one. I mean they make up atleast 1/4th of my army and nearly 1/3rd so i want plant of opentunatys. (dam spelling). Turn 1 for my guys will be very much. "Move everyhtign forward 6"-12", Pop smoke on the all...done"
 

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I really wanted Ahriman for this list as i wanted him to jump out and blast tanks with 3 bolt of change per turn or something of the like...or lots of Chaos Spawn! *Kheeee!!:eek:k:*
Ahriman is freaking terrible. He's allowed to cast three powers per turn, but isn't allowed to use more than a single psychic shooting attack per turn so you can only cast Bolt of Change or Doombolt once per shooting phase. If Ahriman could cast Bolt three times a turn he might be worth his points. As it stands, he's overly expensive and crap.

The Vindicators are very much my anti-tank with Bolt of Change dealing with lighter armour.
Don't use ordnance weapons as your main source of anti-tank firepower. They're very unreliable. Use melta weapons and lascannons instead. You won't need Vindicators in this list because Thousand Sons already shred infantry of all kinds.

The Terminators are both anti-mech and my combat troops sicne they are the only onces even capable in combat. I will be using the P-Icon's on Ahriman and the other Asp-sorcerer to bring them in without problems. I wanted 9 as anyone seeing 9 terminators with 4++ saves will scare people and 9 is the sacret number so i had to have 9. Personally i think it's very fluffy however i know i WILL be outnumbered in almsot every game but with lartge amount of magic, EVERY SINGLE MODAL able to blast out atleast AP3 weapons i shoudl be fine....as long as i'm not agianst Orks or Tyranids and then the numberes might beat me. Opions?
Frankly, you're going to get rocked by anyone with a competitive list. With only two scoring units that aren't particularly tough intelligent players will target the Rhinos and then whittle your Troops down to nothing over the course of a couple turns. The Terminator unit is too large to safely Deep Strike so the chances of actually using their combi-meltas on optimal targets is slim to none. If you're fixated on the idea of running 9 Terminators, split them into three units of three with a power fist in each or something.
 

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If you want this list to be fluffy, dont use Ahriman. He doesn't hang out with the Tsons anymore, on account of him being responsible for accidently trapping them as near-mindless automatons within their own armour for all eternity. Awkward moment, that.

As an alternative, drop Ahriman and a few terminators. This should free the points for you to get 2 Sorcerers, giving you much more flexibility.

Edit: dropping Ahri and 4 termies gives you 390 points

2 sorcs, each with MoT, BoC, and 1 other power cost 155-185 points each.

This leaves you with 20-80 points left over.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ahriman is freaking terrible. He's allowed to cast three powers per turn, but isn't allowed to use more than a single psychic shooting attack per turn so you can only cast Bolt of Change or Doombolt once per shooting phase. If Ahriman could cast Bolt three times a turn he might be worth his points. As it stands, he's overly expensive and crap.

He can however. His Black staff allows him to use upto 3 powers per turn AND allow him to use as amny shooting powers as possible. Yes they have to be at the same target AND he can't shoot his pistol it i feel it's worth it.


Don't use ordnance weapons as your main source of anti-tank firepower. They're very unreliable. Use melta weapons and lascannons instead. You won't need Vindicators in this list because Thousand Sons already shred infantry of all kinds.

You have a point there however my other choice would have been a pair of Predetors but i can't get many in for what i have left. Maybe bopth with lascannon and possibly HB's as i can't afford the secodn set of Lascannons

Frankly, you're going to get rocked by anyone with a competitive list. With only two scoring units that aren't particularly tough intelligent players will target the Rhinos and then whittle your Troops down to nothing over the course of a couple turns. The Terminator unit is too large to safely Deep Strike so the chances of actually using their combi-meltas on optimal targets is slim to none. If you're fixated on the idea of running 9 Terminators, split them into three units of three with a power fist in each or something.

This list isn't ment to be competative and is ment to be fun. I don't expect to win all the time with this army. The Terminators are fine in larger untis due to the Icons meaning they don't scatter so save DS's should be easy(1 Pewrsonal Icon on Ahriman and 1 on the Aspring Sorcerer that Arhiman won't be with.) You do make a good point with the 3 unit of 3 but that means only 1 unit can have the Icon and i can't afford more. not to mention that will be easy kill points
Thanks for the help and even tho i looks like is dismised alot of stuff i have got a few things i can try now.
 

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He can however. His Black staff allows him to use upto 3 powers per turn AND allow him to use as amny shooting powers as possible. Yes they have to be at the same target AND he can't shoot his pistol it i feel it's worth it.
Upon re-reading his entry it would appear that you're correct. I dunno about casting the same power three times in a single phase, though. =/
You have a point there however my other choice would have been a pair of Predetors but i can't get many in for what i have left. Maybe bopth with lascannon and possibly HB's as i can't afford the secodn set of Lascannons
Two Predators with autocannon turrets and lascannon sponsons should be within your points budget and will do better against the vast majority of armored targets.
 

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TBH, Katie is right, regardless of whether he can cast 3 times. He really isn't worth the points.
The model is great, but Ahriman just doesn't perform on the field.

This is coming from someone who hasn't used him. But I've seen him used a few times... and he just doesn't make a big enough impact on the game for the points... Unlike a Daemon Prince or similar
 

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HQ -

Sorcerer - 200
Termie Armour, MoT, BoC

Sorcerer - 185
Termie Armour, MoT, DoomBolt, WoC

Elites -

7 Terminators - 260
5 Combi-Melta

Troops -
9 Thousand Sons - 309
Asp-Sorcerer, Bolt of Change, P-Icon, Dedicated Rhino

9 Thousand Sons - 309
Asp-Sorcerer, Bolt of Change, P-icon, Dedicated Rhino

Heavy Support -

Predator - 130
Autocannon with LasSponsoons

Predator - 130
Autocannon with LasSponsoons
Another list for you to Ponder your Tzeentchian brain over. Forgive me if it's useless. I'm a Khorne Player, I'm crap with Psy!

NB: Sorc's with Termies to make that 9!
NBB: Forgive my double post. :p
 

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Aside for the termis being a massive point sink in only a 1500 point game, I think the could turn out to be very hard to use. Don't get me wrong, I can see them being very capable with such a large squad, and very survivable with a 2+/4+ save, but I think any half decent player will be able to work out a way to avoid them.

I am sure they would be able to take down whatever their first target is, but how are they ment to get to their next one? Due to the size of the squad even raiders aren't an option.

I can see them denying your opponent of one objective, but it leaves you with little else to capture and defend other objectives with. And remember the lack of mobility pretty much rules out any chance of being able to table the other player, so this will be a major issue.

And I do appreciate that this is not an ultra competitive tourney type list, but I am really wondering of ot would be capable of winning, ever.
 

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Hmm, Good call matt, i never think about Objective games when i make list!! :( Maybe that's my downfall...

The main problem i have with 1.5k Tzeentch lists (besides me not liking Tz) Is that Thousand sons are really expensive point wise, 2 troops of Khorne Berserkers costs like 500 points, including transport.

Whereas Thousand sons is tipping 700 with Rhino Transports, Loosing 200 points, which is enough for a valuable HQ or Heavy Support!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
i think you are right here. I will drop ahriman however i WILL get him into the 2000pts version...when i make it, where his cost sould balance out more. Instead i think a Daemon Prince with Wings, MOT and something else most likely Warptime would be good.
I will also swap out the Vindicators for a pair of Preds with Autocannon and Las sponsons for my anti-tank.
This would leave me about 90pts left or so i was wondering about some summoned daemons? A great5er daemon would eb a mess with only the 85pts Asp-sorcerers to sacrafice so a box or Horrors would maybe to well and would fill in as my combat troops. Ofcorse the Terminator numbers will have to go down a bit, maybe to 7 freeing up 70pts
 

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Only reason i put them to 7 was so the sorcs could go in there and make it a 9 again.
 

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1)Ahriman can use three psychic shooting abilities in one phase they just all have to be targeted at the same unit and they all have to be different.(However, you can use gift of chaos 3 times a turn as it is not a psychic shooting attack which is enough to turn a space marine into a spawn)

2)for the Daemon Prince go for MoT and warptime and no other powers as this will just push his points up. Maybe go BoC if you're lacking in the anti tank department with warptime to reroll to hit. Remeber that he can use two psychic shooting abilities as he is an MC.

3)drop the termies and take some melta chosen instead as this is cheaper and outflank is safer than DS aswell as their guns arn't one-shot

4)take havoc launchers on the rhinos as this will help thin out hoardes.

5)you might like to put a chaos lord with MoT and daemon weapon with your squads of TS to give them some holding ability in assualt and he can add to the number of AP3 shots.

6)for heavy support i'd go for obliterators as they match the pace of the rest of your army and add valuable anti tank.

7)you said that you wanted to keep CC to a minimum but the sad truth is that you will need to have at least counter assault measures as TS are expensive and you will easily lose the entire 300+points squad in one assault phase. Maybe you'll be interested in possessed with the MoT as they then become TS that are 'good' in assault depending on what you roll. I think that there is a thread going round at the moment on how to use possessed.

8)you might like to get hold of some lesser daemons as you could DS them in front of the squads that are about to be assaulted as a speed bump unit and at least give you another turn shooting as the enemy consolidate with your rubrics.

9) i do think that you'll need vindis because even though TS shred infantry of all kinds they just don't have enough shots to do the damage required toa large squad of orks or nids before they hit.

LOL nine points:p
 

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oke is it just me or do the points in the list of your post dont make any sense? 1 rhino is 40 points the other 50 while both have the same equipment.

@ supersonic banana - this a fluff list right? so why obliterators i thoughed thousand sons hated mutation's and obliterators are one of the most mutaded of them all exept for spawns of course. would you care too explain that?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
1)Ahriman can use three psychic shooting abilities in one phase they just all have to be targeted at the same unit and they all have to be different.(However, you can use gift of chaos 3 times a turn as it is not a psychic shooting attack which is enough to turn a space marine into a spawn)
Sorry to point this out but the codex says that Ahriman can use the same power in arow apose to normal sorcerers. However he's not much of an issue now as i'm goging to have eaither a Daemon Prince or sorcerer instead now

2)for the Daemon Prince go for MoT and warptime and no other powers as this will just push his points up. Maybe go BoC if you're lacking in the anti tank department with warptime to reroll to hit. Remeber that he can use two psychic shooting abilities as he is an MC.
Yes he can use 2 shooting attacks per tunr but he can't cast 2. He can take upto 2 but can still only cast one.

3)drop the termies and take some melta chosen instead as this is cheaper and outflank is safer than DS aswell as their guns arn't one-shot

4)take havoc launchers on the rhinos as this will help thin out hoardes.
you make a good point. Bar the first tunr when the Rhinos will just try to gain ground and pop smoke they will be moving 6" to allow the contence to fire there melta's/flamers and since a Bolter is counted as a defence weapon this would make them much more powerful...however thius would also put them upto 65pts each and with Thousand sons who are possibly the most expensive troops for chaos finding the poitns would be hard

5)you might like to put a chaos lord with MoT and daemon weapon with your squads of TS to give them some holding ability in assualt and he can add to the number of AP3 shots.
I do actually have a Tzeentch Lord however becuase of the narute of Tzeentch he rarely makes it in since the Prince and Sorcerer are better suited.

6)for heavy support i'd go for obliterators as they match the pace of the rest of your army and add valuable anti tank.
I love obliterators but agin it's finding the points. Deep striking is not a inssue thanks to icons but the points is the problem

7)you said that you wanted to keep CC to a minimum but the sad truth is that you will need to have at least counter assault measures as TS are expensive and you will easily lose the entire 300+points squad in one assault phase. Maybe you'll be interested in possessed with the MoT as they then become TS that are 'good' in assault depending on what you roll. I think that there is a thread going round at the moment on how to use possessed.
Well my normal 1500pts amry has Thousand sons in it and out of all my untis they lasted the langest in combat. My unit of 5 terminators with my Sorcerer where killed by Calgar but the T-Sons lasted 4 rounds of combat with him and even did a total of 4 wounds on hi9m and his squad. also I think i would only use Posseded becuase they look awsume or if i was using Kharn.

8)you might like to get hold of some lesser daemons as you could DS them in front of the squads that are about to be assaulted as a speed bump unit and at least give you another turn shooting as the enemy consolidate with your rubrics.

9) i do think that you'll need vindis because even though TS shred infantry of all kinds they just don't have enough shots to do the damage required toa large squad of orks or nids before they hit.
With the Havoc launcher you suggested they sould be fine with the hordes now.

LOL nine points:p
Thanks for your help. I might have to get to work on an updated list.
 

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Your entire ranged shooting is based off psychic powers and at 2000 pts that is pretty unreliable. Since many players bring psychic defense at that point level.
 

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Actually in the csm codex it says that models with the MoT can attempt to use two pschic powers a turn. so the prince can use two shooting powers.

Where does it say that ahriman can use the same psychic power?

In the BRB it says that if a psyker can use more than one psychic shooting power in a turn they all have to be at the same target and have to be different.

With the oblits tzeentch loves mutations and they fit in with any warband as they sell their services to any chaos lord.

I still think that the vindis will be use full because they do massive damage to hoars and rhinoes are quite easy to knock a gun off.

I you don't want the vindis go for heavy bolter havocs for quantity of shots as 3 units with for pimp out 36 shots a turn =24 hits> 12 orks dead and each squad only costs 135pts
 

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Discussion Starter #19
well the Preds/vindicators are my anti-tank and heavy bolters arn't exatly anti-tank.

Ok here is my new list
:hq:
Chaos Sorcerer w/ T-armour, MOT, Gift of Chaos, Bolt of Change - 200pts
:elites:
7 Chaos Terminators w/ 7 Combi-meltas, 3 power fists, Champion, Icon of tzeentch - 285pts
:troops:
9 Thousand Sons w/ Asp-Sorcerer, Bolt of Change, P-Icon - 274pts
9 Thousand Sons w/ Asp-Sorcerer, Bolt of Change, P-Icon - 274pts
6 Lesser daemons(Horrors) - 78pts
:hs:
Chaos Predator w. Autocannon, Lascannon sponsons - 130pts
Chaos Predator w. Autocannon, Lascannon sponsons - 130pts
Rhino w/ Extra armour, Havoc Launcher - 65pts
Rhino w/ Extra armour, Havoc Launcher - 65pts

Total - 1501pts
Took a Sorcerer instead of Ahriman and droped 2 Terminators. Gave anothe rIcon to the Thousand sons and added in a small unit of daemons for combat. Swpaed the Vindicators for Las Spon Preds. Also added Havoc Launchers to the rhinos for anti-horde
 
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