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That is a really stupid story. No personal offense intended, Malus.

The hive "evolved" to defeat Nurgle's diseases? I call bullshit, even if it is in the codex. The whole point of Nurgle's diseases are that they aren't natural. Evolution doesn't help. No "natural" disease causes you to become massively hungry and explode into mounds of nurglings. No "natural" disease kills you and turns you into a warp animated zombie.

And suddenly Khorne doesn't want skulls and blood (ichor) because they're from tyranids? Again bullshit. Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows.

The other difference is that a single world 'out there in the galaxy' isn't the same as a world in the eye of terror. The entire fabric of reality is bathed in the empyrean in the eye of terror. I suspect the effect of the shadow in the warp would be much diminished by the ambient and really available power of chaos.
I know. The Nurgle bit got to me because like you said, it has nothing to do with natural biology/evolution and the same with the Khorne bit.
 

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That is a really stupid story. No personal offense intended, Malus.

The hive "evolved" to defeat Nurgle's diseases? I call bullshit, even if it is in the codex. The whole point of Nurgle's diseases are that they aren't natural. Evolution doesn't help. No "natural" disease causes you to become massively hungry and explode into mounds of nurglings. No "natural" disease kills you and turns you into a warp animated zombie.

And suddenly Khorne doesn't want skulls and blood (ichor) because they're from tyranids? Again bullshit. Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows, only that it flows.

The other difference is that a single world 'out there in the galaxy' isn't the same as a world in the eye of terror. The entire fabric of reality is bathed in the empyrean in the eye of terror. I suspect the effect of the shadow in the warp would be much diminished by the ambient and really available power of chaos.
I think Malus forgot the include the ending of the story.

All of a sudden the entire ultramarine chapter and their successors commanded by magnus calagar arrived and curb stomped the nids and sealed the warp rift within the span of two hours.
 

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Bwa haha. Uh huh.
Calgar ex machina.
 

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This makes me rethink a lot of things.
Indeed, quite a story. I do find it a little hard to beleive that a Carnifex's took down a Daemonic Prince or two. However the idea of the Zoans interfering with the psychic abiltiies of the daemons is something I can see, even lends credit to certain theories regarding the Nid evolution cycle.

Would this interfere with the free-reign of daemons within the Warp to renew, or possibly be a strong enough mental presence that the Hive Mind would be effectively a minor Warp God?
From my understanding Two Meters Tall the "Shadow in the Warp," that a Hive Mind generates is more like an EMP pulse that is given off due to the Minds high psychic latency. Using all that "Mental Enegry," to command the billions upon billions of creatures makes it like a shinning beacon in the Warp.

Therefore I feel that while the Shadow would create a "Psychic Free," area within the warp, which would give the Nids an edge against any Choas foes they meet, that ultimately the Choas Gods would over-power this ability. However this is something that only GW and the Writers can answer.

C'tan, plus necrons and daemons depending your definition
C'Tan yes, daemons maybe, Necrons no. Necrons are made of a living metals, but metal nonetheless. They could easily be killed and consumed by the Hive Mind to future processing. It would be interesting to see what the Nids create using the Guass technology of the Necrons.

However this does not explain why the Tyranid Fleets have been avoiding the Necrons like a plague for the last 3 major assaults upon the galaxy. This is a question I personally would love to see answered.

Khorne doesn't want skulls and blood (ichor) because they're from tyranids
Really? Last I checked Khorne is a human emotion given birth because of the inner-nature of all humanity; same with Nurgle and Tzeetch. Thus if the Tyranids are not creatures that give the Choas Gods power then perhaps they are seen as outside the wanting eye of Choas. It's not that hard to see this being possible, though I would agree the writers need to put a few novels out there explaining this fully.

I call bullshit, even if it is in the codex.
As I said above, it is quite feasible. The Hive Mind studied the Physical, Biological, and Chemical reactions and events that surround the life and death of it's creatures that make up the whole. Therefore you could say that the Mind would notice if hundreds and thousands of it's Warriors started popping into Nurglings.

IMHO it would study this, find out the physical aspect to it, and create creaturew with the ability to counter it. The Mind is the ultimate Evolution Machine, and I can easily see it combating the powers of Choas by adapting it's own "Biological Strategem."
 

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I continue to disagree strongly.

Khorne may be born of the desire to let blood and vent rage, feelings intrinsically alien to tyranids, but that doesn't have anything to do with the act of killing tyranids. They have blood. They have skulls. Both may be offered to Khorne.

Like wise Nurgle's diseases aren't always corporeal. A supernatural disease would require a supernatural adaption, not an evolutionary one.
 

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There have been a couple of throw-away examples in the lore of Tyranid Hive Fleets being infected by Nurgle's Rot or other warp plagues.

Moving into the Eye of Terror wouldn't end well for the Tyranids. Their ability to sustain themselves via biomass would be heavily impeded given that most worlds and inhabitants of the Eye are corrupted (I can't imagine trying to consume a Daemon World ending well).

Aside from that the daemonic legions can freely exist within the Eye so the Tyranids would potentially be up against infinite daemons.

I can't envisage any situation that would benefit the Tyranids from entering the Eye.
As always, the CotE speaks true. Nids in the warp is a loss of Bio Mass to the Nids. I think it was a Grey Knight codex that mentions Nurgle corrupting a whole fleet once.
 

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I continue to disagree strongly.

Khorne may be born of the desire to let blood and vent rage, feelings intrinsically alien to tyranids, but that doesn't have anything to do with the act of killing tyranids. They have blood. They have skulls. Both may be offered to Khorne.

Like wise Nurgle's diseases aren't always corporeal. A supernatural disease would require a supernatural adaption, not an evolutionary one.
I believe its because individually the Tyranids lack personalities or even souls.

They only have character as a whole species.
 

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C'Tan yes, daemons maybe, Necrons no. Necrons are made of a living metals, but metal nonetheless. They could easily be killed and consumed by the Hive Mind to future processing. It would be interesting to see what the Nids create using the Guass technology of the Necrons. However this does not explain why the Tyranid Fleets have been avoiding the Necrons like a plague for the last 3 major assaults upon the galaxy. This is a question I personally would love to see answered.
Living metal is a name given to describe the metal's regenerative properties. It is no more living than any other metal or rock. Necrons cannot be absorbed in any way by the tyranids, and there is certainly no way tyranids could ever utilize gauss technology. That's just foolish.

Khorne may be born of the desire to let blood and vent rage, feelings intrinsically alien to tyranids, but that doesn't have anything to do with the act of killing tyranids. They have blood. They have skulls. Both may be offered to Khorne.
Tyranids have ichor, not blood. And it could be arfued that they have exoskeletons, not skulls.

In any case, the current tyranid codex lays this to rest. A daemonic incursion occurs on a planet being consumed by the tyranids. At first the daemons' natural superiority gives them the edge, but the lack of real psychic energy to feed on eventually causes them to lose their strength and be defeated.

Blood for the Blood God, Skulls for the Skull Throne!

This is all well and good, but take into account the third line of this phrase;

Souls for the Soul Eater!

The act of spilling blood and taking skulls offers up the souls, or psychic energy, of the slain for the daemons of Khorne and their patron to feed. The tyranids do not have souls to give, so these acts against them contribute nothing.

It may have been something if these had been mortal servants of Khorne who could relish the act, but the daemons themselves would not be able to feed off their own energies would they? And with the tyranids having no souls to give, the daemons' starvation and defeat was inevitable.
 

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In all the years of playing warhammer (more than 20) I have never heard that 3rd line and find it highly suspect (or a more recent addition, just as suspect).

Serp, in all honesty I just disagree, I'm not debating. I have no intention of changing my mind. In other words, no need to take time to convince me - if you want to try for others go for it, but I don't want to waste your time.
 

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In all the years of playing warhammer (more than 20) I have never heard that 3rd line and find it highly suspect (or a more recent addition, just as suspect).
It was added, as were many things, by BL authors for reasons I don't fully understand but which provide expansion on a flimsy idea nonetheless.

Serp, in all honesty I just disagree, I'm not debating. I have no intention of changing my mind. In other words, no need to take time to convince me - if you want to try for others go for it, but I don't want to waste your time.
And you wonder why it doesn't make sense?

In all honesty, your approach to interpreting fluff is garbage, but thanks. I too, will stop wasting my time at this point. :so_happy:
 

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Fair enough. In most cases I'm more than happy to engage in a dialectic to discover a more clear version of the setting.

In this case I'm being old and stodgy (and I know it) which is why I don't want to waste your time.
 

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I have never heard that 3rd line and find it highly suspect
I have seen this line since the "Gaunt's Ghost" series. I beleive it was a frenzied Cultist warrior that shouted that at Rawne before he blew his head off during the Siege of Vervun Hive. In any case I am going to check on this, but i know i have heard those three lines in sync before.

It may have been something if these had been mortal servants of Khorne who could relish the act, but the daemons themselves would not be able to feed off their own energies would they? And with the tyranids having no souls to give, the daemons' starvation and defeat was inevitable.
They would not have feed anyway. As I said before Khorne was created mainly from a "HUMAN," emotion. Therefore he requires Blood, not Ichor. He needs Souls, not Base Instinct. He also needs an intelligent enemy for his warriors to fight, not a creature that is driven by a general collective. It would be like the Borg trying to Assimilate the Undine from Star Trek.....it just wouldn't happen.

Living metal is a name given to describe the metal's regenerative properties. It is no more living than any other metal or rock. Necrons cannot be absorbed in any way by the tyranids, and there is certainly no way tyranids could ever utilize gauss technology. That's just foolish.
It's still physical mass though right? The Necrons Warriors are "Constructs," as their own Codex calls them, and that they are made of metal. Ja?

If it looks like a Chicken, walks like a Chicken, it is a Chicken Serpion. I think whole heartedly the3 Nids would consume it, and probably put the unique metal to some interesting uses. I mean they consumed Leman Russes during the Battle of Macragge, and they started pumping out Carnifex's with some near invincible armor plating.

What I would ask, and perhaps you know the answer, is why the Nids seem to avoid them? Why do the Hive Minds take drastic steps to steer entire fleets away from Necron Tomb Worlds? Have they fought them before, or do they recognize the threat they present?

Nids in the warp is a loss of Bio Mass to the Nids.
This is true, but what is the difference between Pure and Corrupt Biomass??? Really it's material either way

Like wise Nurgle's diseases aren't always corporeal. A supernatural disease would require a supernatural adaption, not an evolutionary one
 

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If it looks like a Chicken, walks like a Chicken, it is a Chicken Serpion. I think whole heartedly the3 Nids would consume it, and probably put the unique metal to some interesting uses. I mean they consumed Leman Russes during the Battle of Macragge, and they started pumping out Carnifex's with some near invincible armor plating.
That's plain stupid. A terminator walks like a human, talks like a human but it isn't human. It's the same with living metal. Tyranids cannot make full use of nonliving matter and I have never read of these invincible iron carnifexes.

What I would ask, and perhaps you know the answer, is why the Nids seem to avoid them? Why do the Hive Minds take drastic steps to steer entire fleets away from Necron Tomb Worlds? Have they fought them before, or do they recognize the threat they present?
Necrons are terrifyingly efficient, feel little if any fear and have a level of technology that every other race envies. They are the polar opposite of tyranids in terms of life vs technology, and exploit the one weakness that tyranids have. If the bugs have encountered them before, they know this.

The bugs must feed in order to survive and replenish their numbers. The necrons can mine a planet hollow and tear apart the ruins of their own and their enemies machines to regenerate.

The necrons' gauss and tesla technology render living matter to nonexistence or a charred mess, making it difficult to impossible for tyranids to replenish their numbers in a protraced fight against them.

Additionally, the necrons have demonstrated a level of technology allowing them to disrupt psychic energies, something the tyranids are heavily reliant on.
 

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This is true, but what is the difference between Pure and Corrupt Biomass??? Really it's material either way
It has more to do with the fact their is no real Bio Mass in the eye of terror. Everything their is Warp Born or Made except the few living humans, space marines, ect there. When a Demon dies, it disintegrates in a puff od smoke or fire on most fluff and video games. What is there to consume for the Nids? entire worlds of blood made of warp stuff? Entire world of already dead orks remade from the warp to please a Khorn Daemon Prince? There is very little Bio Mass in the Eye. Meanwhile the Nids will be losing tons of Bio Mas in the process.
 

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The tyranids do not have souls to give,
A little iffy here. What really is a soul? How do we know Tyranids lack a soul, anyway?

Plus I think you may be taking the whole blood and skulls thing too literally.

I mean, if there was a forge world where all the adepts removed their skulls and put their brains in their torso (like Krang from TMNT) and replaced their blood with sacred oils...do you think the followers of Khorne would walk by? I think not.
 

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A little iffy here. What really is a soul? How do we know Tyranids lack a soul, anyway?
A soul is described in the context of 40k as psychic or emotional energy. Wecan be pretty confident that tyranids do not experience emotions as humans would understand, the the lore concerning the Hive Mind makes it apparent that individual creatures have little if no bearing on the state of the Hive Mind itself, which is the repository of all tyranid consciousness after all.

It stands to reason that no individual tyranid has the sort of energy to give that a Chaos God wants. Only if you could attack the Hive Mind directly would you be on the right track.

Plus I think you may be taking the whole blood and skulls thing too literally. I mean, if there was a forge world where all the adepts removed their skulls and put their brains in their torso (like Krang from TMNT) and replaced their blood with sacred oils...do you think the followers of Khorne would walk by? I think not.
Actually, I'm not taking it literally at all. It's all about the emotions involved moreso than the act, because that is what the daemons require to draw strength. The daemons are able to feed off the energy of those they slay, it's what makes them one of the most feared forces in the galaxy. Mortal followers likewise provide this energy by their deeds, due to the emotions the feel during the acts they commit.

Daemons require energy to act, and they expend it during the act, the opposite of the above effect. For a daemon incursion to sustain itself, it requires mortal victims with souls, ie: emotions, for them to feed off.

If the tyranids have no individual emotions, no fear on which to feed, then it wouldn't matter whether they have blood or ichor, skulls or carapace. There is simply no energy for the daemons to feed off, and as such it is a losing battle for Chaos.

If this was set in the Eye of Terror or some other warp heavy area, the daemons would have near limitless energy to draw from and the advantage would easily be theirs.
 

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The bugs must feed in order to survive and replenish their numbers. The necrons can mine a planet hollow and tear apart the ruins of their own and their enemies machines to regenerate.

The necrons' gauss and tesla technology render living matter to nonexistence or a charred mess, making it difficult to impossible for tyranids to replenish their numbers in a protraced fight against them.

Additionally, the necrons have demonstrated a level of technology allowing them to disrupt psychic energies, something the tyranids are heavily reliant on.
I see, and thank you for the explanation. I agree that if this would probably cause the Nids to run away. If that's true then has anyone ever heard/read of a Necron/Nid fight? What were the results?

A terminator
A Terminator...you sure. I'm pretty positive their is a living human being there. Reprocess the metallics and, using genetics and Matter Recontrustion (something the Nids excel at) they could us the metal for building Bio-ships.

I think you really underestimate the power of Nature that the Nids control Serpion. Necrons or not they consume everything.....EVERYTHING......on a planet and put it to use.
 

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No, they do not.

There are examples of admech worlds and outposts stripped of organics with all metals and machine parts left behind. They don't, can't, just eat anything.
 

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There are examples of admech worlds and outposts stripped of organics with all metals and machine parts left behind. They don't, can't, just eat anything.
Really, source? Being a long-time Nid fan I'd like to read this as I've never heard of it. The usual description is that the planet is stripped down to the rocks and foundation (a.k.a dirt). If there are metals being left I'd love t hear when and how.
 

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Really, source? Being a long-time Nid fan I'd like to read this as I've never heard of it. The usual description is that the planet is stripped down to the rocks and foundation (a.k.a dirt). If there are metals being left I'd love t hear when and how.
Warriors of Ultramar, and I believe one of the Cain novels shows this as well.
 
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