[Aramoro]

Erm no warriors would be in no way better, costing twice as much and can't infiltrate. I would be tempted to go with oddjob on this one, on account of him being right. He has written a really excellent series on playing Nids, you should read it as it's very good.

 

[darklove]

Warriors can outflank with a hive commander. They have more wounds. They are synaps. They can use drop pods.
They have the same attacks in CC as Stealers, but are just generally better against Necrons.

Looks like lots of you all came out from under the bridge tonight.

 

[lokis222]

Thinking about the genestealers, I would be worried about them being shot to death before even getting into combat. A stalker will be a massive headache for genestealers, but any mech will give them headaches. AV 13 all around means they are as likely to hurt it as a stalker. A footslogger with phaeron will put out significant shots and whittle away the group. I would just avoid them and shoot them to death.

How do you plan to give them FNP? A tervigon?

Use of a tremor staff will have them rolling to move, and run. Reducing their effective threat range from average of 13-18 to 8-18. With averages of 15. Use of cover also drastically reduces the effectiveness of genestealers. A big group of necrons will probably kill most of a group that has taken at least one round of shooting.

I see things to get them on foot and stranglehorn cannons and biovores perhaps doinging some good.

 

[Lord Azune]

Biovores and stranglethorn/barbed strangler don't exactly work well against warriors in cover. It won't kill enough quickly enough for it to matter if the Necron player has a lord w/ Resi orb and a ghost ark.

Then again, I may just suck at rolling. I have terrible luck against cover as Nids.

 

[lokis222]

Biovores and stranglethorn/barbed strangler don't exactly work well against warriors in cover. It won't kill enough quickly enough for it to matter if the Necron player has a lord w/ Resi orb and a ghost ark.

Then again, I may just suck at rolling. I have terrible luck against cover as Nids.

That's the thing. The right list won't worry about the cover. Necrons have limited range. So, you build lists around exploiting this. You have three possible win conditions. Two of which are objective.

Harpy with venom cannons and tyrannofex's to go for the vehicles at range. Biovores and warriors with stranglehorn to take potshots at range. Unless the Necron player is using Phaeron, he can't move and shoot worth a damn. So, let him sit in cover. Who cares. The goal isn't to kill, it is to win. Priority targets are doomsday barges. Once they are gone, heavy destroyers and any other range 36 weapons.

Punish the player for using cover. Exploit the weaknesses. Got scarabs, blast templates.

Got wraiths, shoot them with hive guard.

Hit the monolith with MCs.

Shoot the annihilation barge with range 48/36 anti-tank.

Every vehicle is open top.

Stay outside of the range and make him move.

Play the objectives.

In killpoints, take out the vehicles.

In objectives, camp them.

Nids have guns, use them.

With Grey Knights, Dark Eldar, Guard, and now Necrons, if we play the mindless beast, we get pawned.

Control the board and control the movement. It works.

Here is my current all comers, and it has been working.

HQ

Tervigon
TS
AG
Clusterspines
Onslaught

Hive Tyrant
Venom Cannon
Hive Guard

Elites

Hive Guard 3

Hive Guard 3

Zoanthropes 2

Troops

20 Termaguants
Devourers

14 Termagants

Tervigon
TS
AG
Clusterspines
Catalyst

Heavy

Tyrannofex
Rupture Cannon

Tyrannofex
Rupture Cannon

Biovores 3

This is about 2000pts.

The basic idea is don't play their game. They want you to charge. Currently, Nids are at a disadvantage if they do. When move through cover gives us assault grenades, then things will be different, but for now, we got to suck it up.

You have 4 48 inch shots that will do beautiful things to open-topped AV 13.

You have 3 48 inch large blast templates that cause pinning.

You have one 36 inch blast that can pop an AV 13 if you are lucky or instant kill destroyers, wraiths, scarabs, etc

Let them come to you. They move, they don't shot 24 inches.

At 24 inches, you have 12 st 8 shots that you don't need LOS for. Abuse that.

At 24 inches you have 2 AP3 blasts.

At 18 inches you have 2 large blast.

At 18 inches you have 60 shots that if the unit shot at has to take a leadership test, it does so at -1.

And you make your own cover.

 

[Lord Azune]

The monolith, doom scythe and night scythe are not open topped. My biggest concern with your list would be the lack of anti-monolith.

Actually, scratch that on the anti monolith.... rupture cannons can do it on a 4+. so thats 4 shots at 48". Not sure on the math hammer but I imagine thats low odds with the BS 3. It'd be a 4+ to hit and then a 4+ to glance.

 

[Hayden86]

The monolith, doom scythe and night scythe are not open topped. My biggest concern with your list would be the lack of anti-monolith.

I dont have a copy of the new Necron book( and i do not know the mono stats ) but i would think Tyrannofex X 2 Rupture Cannon would do more then dent a Mono ?

opcorn: The seedpod that can cause a massive implosion.

 

[lokis222]

The monolith, doom scythe and night scythe are not open topped. My biggest concern with your list would be the lack of anti-monolith.

Not as big a concern as you think. Of the three, I would only really be concerned about the night scythe. The monolith is tough but slow. The doom has to kill 175 points and will probably die the turn after it shoots. Deployment will be important. A night scythe could bring some problematic units, but regardless, better than assaulting through cover.

 

[lokis222]

I wouldnt use a tfex on a lith. I would avoid it and destroy the army around it. It i had to engage, I would use the Zoans with onslaught or an MC to kill it.

 

[Lord Azune]

Hrmm, I totally overlooked the Zoans. My appologies.

 

[lokis222]

Hrmm, I totally overlooked the Zoans. My appologies.

Yeah, it is a limited range, but that is one of the reasons for onslaught.

Two T-Fexs shooting at one Monolith is on average one Pen shot. It is a waste of effort to use them there. They can pretty reliably take down a doom scythe or night scythe as long as they haven't done their super move. Thing is, if they do their super move, IIRC, even if they make their cover save, the pen counts and they become AV 11. At that point, hive guard go to town and try to overwhelm the cover save. They will try to supersonic into range to be effective next turn, which means in most cases, they will be in range of the hive guard.

 

[Lord Azune]

Under RAW I'd have to say that the Pen wouldn't count for Quantum Shielding. PG 62 of the LBR (I only have the AOBR one), says that If the target is obscured and suffers a glancing or penetrating hit, it may take a cover save against it. If the save is passed, the hit is discarded (I.E. as if it had never been hit.)

 

[lokis222]

Too bad. My main rule has been MIA for almost six months. Still, the rest is sound anti necron and given that I play both armies, I think pretty good. Basically, this is my counter for my all comer Necron list.

 

[OddJob]

Warriors can outflank with a hive commander. They have more wounds. They are synaps. They can use drop pods.
They have the same attacks in CC as Stealers, but are just generally better against Necrons.

For a roughly equivalent points output stealers have:
Higher WS and I
Loads more attacks (and ~equivalent numbers of wounds)
Immunity to st8 ID (terrified of missiles and fists- or harbingers of destruction)

and most importantly

Infiltrate and Fleet (if your face on turn two)

There is literally no comparison between the two units as a dedicated cc unit, which is why you often see large stealer units in competative lists and never see warriors.

Looks like lots of you all came out from under the bridge tonight.

A bit more lurking might be more beneficial for you than posting bad advice.

 

[OddJob]

Thinking about the genestealers, I would be worried about them being shot to death before even getting into combat.

Cover and FNP (if you go first) makes each stealer more durable than a marine. Infiltrate means they are in your pants on turn two. They are really difficult to whittle in one turn.

A stalker will be a massive headache for genestealers, but any mech will give them headaches. AV 13 all around means they are as likely to hurt it as a stalker. A footslogger with phaeron will put out significant shots and whittle away the group. I would just avoid them and shoot them to death.

The walker is the only one that has av13 in cc. Two things- The stealers shouldn't be the only threat on turn two (hive guard, gargs, ymagarls, more stealers etc) and necrons generally lack the transport saturation of guard or marines (arc 115pts, sythe 100pts, chimera 55pts, rhino 35pts). How many attack vectors (heard that in a movie last night ) can you block off at once? Any vehicle that moves less than 6" is toast.

20 gauss shots (thanks to the phaeron):

20 x 2/3 x 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 ~ 1-2 dead stealers. Or 3 dead stealers if you move into rapid fire range (assissted suicide). Not so impressive.

How do you plan to give them FNP? A tervigon?

Darn tootin.

Use of a tremor staff will have them rolling to move, and run. Reducing their effective threat range from average of 13-18 to 8-18. With averages of 15. Use of cover also drastically reduces the effectiveness of genestealers. A big group of necrons will probably kill most of a group that has taken at least one round of shooting.

The movement issue isn't so bad:
1. They generally infiltrate into cover anyway (at least half the unit does).
2. They have move through cover.

So realistically you lose an inch or two (maybe) on the assault move. ~50% chance of at least one 6 on 3D6, with an average of 5.

20 Warriors get to strike first:

20 x 1/2 x 1/2 x 2/3 x 1/2 = 40/24 = 1.7 dead stealers... I presume you don't need me to average the return digs...

 

[Aramoro]

Warriors can outflank with a hive commander. They have more wounds. They are synaps. They can use drop pods.
They have the same attacks in CC as Stealers, but are just generally better against Necrons.

Looks like lots of you all came out from under the bridge tonight.

Oh dear.....just oh...wow, don't know what to do with that information. Read Oddjobs post and that'll sort you out there.

Necrons have Death Rays making Warriors junk, just as they are junk against every army.

So far I've played Newcrons with Blood Angels and Grey Knights (Inquisition) and they are still brutally bad in close combat. An all jumper BA army got me a wipeout on turn 3. Hive Guard + Stealers will wreck Newcrons pretty badly as they have no abundance or flamers or anything like that. I don't see Stalkers being popular enough to be common in Newcron armies even though they give Stealers a headache.

 

[lokis222]

Stealershock looks good in numbers. However, you need to set up turn two to be effective. The the tervigon has to be in range. It is base almost 300pts and if you take toxin sacs, more than 300. If there is a phaeron in the group, point to point you will die. It will take awhile but when your points ard gone, the necron player will still be alive. A command barge can move fast enough to get a cover save and only be hit on sixs. Not sure about the cover in CC, my book is MIA. A monolith could wreak all your plans. Let alone that guy with the staff who might wipe out a large percent of your unit with one wound depending on the FAQ. This is a short list. There are more counters than this and all are cheaper point wise than the stealer horde.

 

[Aramoro]

Erm Tervigons with Toxin Sacs and Catalyst are 185 pts, not 300. You're saying Stealershock is bad because Nids will only have Stealers and Tervigons but Necrons will have Trazyn (it would be more a freak occurrence that he did anything useful), Monoliths, Warriors, Command Barges + a bunch of other stuff. I would fancy that the Nid player also has other units as well, like Hive Guard who will mess up your Open Topped vehicles pretty well.

For Trazyn the maths goes like this, 3 attacks on 4's to hit, wounding on 3's means 1 wound. Stealer gets his save + FnP so you cause a wound in every one in 3 Sweeps of the brood. But say you do kill a dude, 19 of them left, 9.5 are hit, after saves 3 Stealers die. That is not a great return on investment for suiciding your HQ.

 

[lokis222]

Erm Tervigons with Toxon Sacs and Catalyst are 185 pts, not 300. You're saying Stealershock is bad because Nids will only have Stealers and Tervigons but Necrons will have Trazyn (it would be more a freak occurrence that he did anything useful), Monoliths, Warriors, Command Barges + a bunch of other stuff. I would fancy that the Nid player also has other units as well, like Hive Guard who will mess up your Open Topped vehicles pretty well.

For Trazyn the maths goes like this, 3 attacks on 4's to hit, wounding on 3's means 1 wound. Stealer gets his save + FnP so you cause a wound in every one in 3 Sweeps of the brood. But say you do kill a dude, 19 of them left, 9.5 are hit, after saves 3 Stealers die. That is not a great return on investment for suiciding your HQ.

No, the tervigon kitted with catalyst is 175.It cant give toxin to genestealers. What I am saying is a well balanced necron list wont be too concerned with 20 genestealers. That being the close to 300pt unit. The stealers will havr FNP for 1 turn. After that they are fubar.
Each of those units are listed as seperate counters, in that you can counter that mini deathstar cheaply.

 

[Aramoro]

I know it can't give Poison to the Stealers, just trying to work out your cryptic postings. It's like scrying in owl intestines.

20 Stealers with Toxin is 340 points, not inconsiderable but assuming you're playing a decent points value game they're not the only thing on the board. Stealers will have FnP for at least one turn but I would not call it a mini deathstar, it's just a unit that you happen to have a Tervigon near. You're probably using Tervigons anyway because you like winning. I would expect all the Stealers to die in the end, but it would be extremely unlucky for them not to take a bunch of stuff with them. It's just one unit, it's not like it's half your army or anything.