[Insomniac00]

Ok so i have been Playing Tyranids for about five months, I have been apart of several other forums before i started looking for others. And after reading a lot of the posts and responses here i decided this would be a place where i could get good critique on my tactics, army lists and other posts here.
This is my 1500 point army, my most recent game i played tao [ Which a friend of mine plays and he is a maneuvering genius ] And i had a solid Victory of 643 pts, It was a cleanse mission. He had no turn five because i had destroyed the weapons on all three of his rail cannon tanks [ one Tank was just destroyed outright] His fish of fury got hit after deployment by my Devil-Fex and Tyrant, The troops were hit simultaneously by One Brood of Genestealers at full strength and a brood of Hormaguants 5 pieces down from full strength. His other skimmers were decimated by my second fex, brood lord and second group of stealers. His two groups of fire warriors and Suit squads were taken out by my guants [ both squads at roughly half strenth ] Warrior back up, Devil-Fex and Winged tyrant, The Tyrant than finished off both remaining tanks, he hit combat second turn and everything he he just crumpled. The zoanthrops provided synapse and overlapping synapse for the rest so i didn't have to make a single leadership roll, the first tank destroyed was their doing.

This is that army, But how Could it be Improved, I was thinking a second battle box next but Thoughts?
HQ

264 Hive Tyrant w/ 2x Guards
Enhanced senses[bs], Extended Carapace, Toxin Sacs
Venom Cannon, Twin-Linked Devourer

161 Hive Tyrant
Winged, Warp field, 2x Scything Talons

Elite

100 3x Warrior Brood
Extended Carapace, enhanced senses
One with Venom cannon and Rending Claws
Two with Devourers and rending claws

Troops

84 14x Guants
Flesh Borers

60 12x Guants
Spine fists

160 16x Hormaguants

120 6x Genestealers
Extended Carapace

120 6x Genestealers
Extended Carapace

Fast Attack

~None~

Heavy

130 2x Zoanthropes
warp blast, synapse

138 Carnifex
Enhanced Senses [bs], Extended Carapace
2x Devourers

163 Carnifex
Enhanced Senses [bs], Reinforced Chitin
Venom Cannon, Barbed Strangler

_______
1500

 

[jigplums]

Do you need extended carapace on the guarded tyrant? I think it could possibly be dropped for more points elsewhere, although it does give all your big stuff the same save and therefore great synergy. I've found that tau don't like 2+ save big guys so if your making it for playing against your mate, then probably stick with it. You could increase that synergy even more by adding a 3rd zoanthrope and dropping the warriors? I've never had alot of sucess with shooty warriors before but others i know have so its all down too personal preference.

Another battleforce as you suggested is a good idea as it will let you either go down the route of more big beasties, Or add in more little guys and go for the swarm approach.

 

[Jacobite]

Like I said in my PM i know very little about Nids and this post is more a question to satisfy my own thirst for knwledge but I'm taking it that you use the Winged Tyrant to extend synapse range?

 

[jigplums]

A winged tyrant means its getting into combat quickly, suffers alot less in escalation missions, and can make better use of cover. Also it can help give synapse for Hormies and the like that are going to be ranging ahead.
The only questions then are how you arm your winged tyrant as he has many attractive options. 2 sets of twin-linked devourers can be nasty for 12 shots that re-roll to hit AND wound. 2 x Scything talons to up his attacks, or a combo involving Lashwhip and bonesword are all viable.

 

[Insomniac00]

well i have tried the to Devourer setup and i have to say its lacking, i would have to drop more points into him to have str five devourers and i don't want to make him a point sink, he would turn into a troop killer when skimmers are much more of a threat when dealing with Tao and Eldar, he is already a target without giving him Dakka guns, plus those guns wouldn't touch a tank with average front armor of twelve.
as far as the bone sword and lash whip it gives him a few nasty surprises but he is on average more than six inches from any other brood and the sword doesn't effect him, also the whip only helps towards the end of games because that is when he rushes squads of guys instead of popping tanks
Yes i have him for extended synapse and at the same time it is a resounding no, he is a forerunner for the army, almost always hits combat first and hides in cover hopping till he gets there, the hormies run along and do their best to grab cover as well but they are not always quick enough and can get caught in the open

If need i could tone down all three of my creature features [both fexes and the tyrant] to add more guys, i know other configs that would give me more points as well, but for right now i like it that my second tyrant doesn't die after the guards are gone and my Fexs are harder to punch than some tanks ~ Annoys the piss out of him that it takes two to three turns with his rail cannons to punch one of my fexs - and thats only if he focuses on them with all three rail cannons and maybe other ap1-2 weapons as well, but it still takes two turns which are two turns he isn't shooting at anything else

But i hoped i answered your questions to your satisfaction, any others?
Critique this list please, i want to know whats wrong with it, how to make it the best i can.

 

[Skcuzzlebumm]

OK looking at your list there's a few things that i wouldn't be happy with:

VC's on tyrants - its only S7 for what 35pts!!! Thats a lot dude for not very much at all. Also the 2+ save on him is redundant when you have guard. Change the VC to a 2nd set of devourers, buy a 3rd guard and give the Tyrant Toxic Misama (will therefore benfit the whole unit).

Flytyrant needs to get some upgrades on him to make him CC effective. Don't bother with Warp Field, 2+ sve for 35pts is waaaay too much considering most weapons that wil easily wound him also are AP2 or better. For 169 You can get a very cheap and effective CC Tyrant (wings, WS6, I6, S6, Scything, Lashwhip/bonesword). In terms of meta game and maths hammer that is the best kit out, then if you feel like it stick Implant or Acid onto him.

Warriors: have never lioked shooty warriors as they cost a lot of points (100 for 3!!!) and will die very quickly in a firefight. Sorry nothing much to say apart from drop them for either CC warriors or Dakkafexs.

The Guant squads are cool - nice and big. Maybe though give the HG's I5/WS upgrades. Its well worth it believe me. They cause 33% more wounds vs MEQ's AND hit first:
16 basic HG's will kill 2.7 Marines on the charge and loose 4.5 in return (basing it on 10 marines with a fist vet which is the norm).
16 WS5/I5 HG's will kill 3.5 Marines on the charge and loose 2.9 in return.
So you end up winning CC and outnumbering them 2:1.

Stealers: Give them scuttlers and Flehhooks. Again Extended Carapace won't save you much considering the vast ammount of multishot S5+ Ap4 weapons in the game designed to kill stealers. Get them moving forwards quicker and give them and bonus in CC.

Fex's - again most things that easily wound them bypass 2+ saves. Never bother with Extended Carapace, +1 wound THEN +1T are your main upgrades.

I would look at seeing about including a 2nd Gunfex in there as you still lack anti tank (move the dakkafex into Elites by loosing the 2+ save).

 

[Insomniac00]

VC's on tyrants - its only S7 for what 35pts!!! Thats a lot dude for not very much at all. Also the 2+ save on him is redundant when you have guard.

Ok so i could grab another guard and drop the save, this i have no problem with but you are thinking its only a S7 when its really a S8 which he covers with till he gets within range with the Devourer - the Miasma will be great when the 12 hits - 16 on charge - hit combat and just annihilate any combat they hit especially since it will have been hit at least once by the devour/Vc combo - but do two sets of only S5 devourers work better in practice?

With the Flyrant i can understand dropping one set of talons for the Bone sword and whip [ Great combo ] But the 2+ 6+ sv work fantastic in practice, they only have so many ap1/ap2 weapons which are first priority to take out, beyond that the only thing that hits them is well everything else which he does get a save from.

CC Warriors are expensive as well with leaping and the other biomorphs you need for them [ unless you run them with only Rending Claws and Scything Talons, which is suicide, how do you run your CC Warriors?

The numbers speak for themselves with the Hormaguants - only problem is where to make up the points

I agree on the fexs, and was planning to do that when i got another

Running the list as you suggest brings the cost up to 1568
This is assuming you take the CC Warriors outfitted with leaping - scything talons, rending claws - carapace - Toxinsacs

So what not to take?

 

[Skcuzzlebumm]

Your right was having a brain fart with the VC been S7 for some reason. Ignore me its been a long weekend. Though i still prefer massed devourer doom.

Your right about then only so much AP1/2 but until you get in close that is going to be taking a massive toll on your units. And you can garuntee the Flytryant is target #1. I've seen ppl run with 2+ save, i myself toyed with it for a bit, but the bonus in a gaming enviroment is negligable.

As for CC warriors: 40pts a pop if you can afford it, Leaping, I5, Hooks, Rending, Scything, 4+ save. Its a lot but well worth it. Especially if you saturate your army with threats (see my GT nids as an example).

 

[Insomniac00]

I guess its a toss up as to weather the points are available, but i would rather have a 2+ agianst everything else and a 6+ agianst ap1-2 weapons than a 3+ on some stuff and nothing for ap 3+ - in my opinion its worth the 35 points but if they see that the Flyrant has only a 3+ save than they will save the big guns for my other big guns

But its funny you call the the Ranged warrior config expensive at 100 pts when you offer up a set up costing 120 - LoL - but i agree they are a major threat to run with lets say the Hormaguants - and if the points are still there i will switch it out but you are figureing average they hit combat turn 2 average turn 3 where as the other config they are shooting while they run along and using rending when they hit combat - But the CC config is a nasty one

 

[Skcuzzlebumm]

I undertand that aswell but ranged warriors are pretty poor, BS3 and only a 4+ save for 30+pts is a very raw deal. Unless you theme your list to take masses of them they rarely do anything but die.

CC warriors work better as they can directly kill more models more reliably with rending. Plus they provide a further threat in CC to the opponent, taking the pressure off the other CC units somewhat.

 

[Insomniac00]

This is true, so what about this config for the same 120 pts

Warriors - Rending Claws, Devourers
Leaping, Enhanced Senses, Extended Carapace and
Adrenal Glands [ ws ]

What are your thoughts?
hit the group twice before getting in CC with it

 

[Skcuzzlebumm]

Thats better, though would still go with I5 over WS5. Hitting first is better and hitting on 3's. Cost you 3 points more to do it and well worth it.

 

[Insomniac00]

Oh no i agree and in fact would take it that way, was just saying what i would do for a buck twenty

I will be posting a new 1500 and 2000 pnt army list once i get another battle box but so far you guys have been a ton of help, thanks

 

[Jacobite]

See told you somebody could help you :wink: