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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So in the story for Ulthwe it often says that they do not use aspect warriors as heavily as other craftworlds. While I know to play a competitive army for eldar you practically need these aspect warriors, I would like to play a list with none of them. I have the older codex, so I know the units pretty well, I would just like sample lists if you have any input or suggestions for this 'themed' list (This will be for my own enjoyment, I know I will loose quite often but it'll look cool).

Eldrad Ulthran (Definately)

Farseer (I want to be VERY psychic heavy)

Warlocks in every squad, possibly a warlock squad with Eldrad

A lot of Guardians and Storm Guardians (Very supportive of my theme)

Possibly Rangers (Rangers with the Ulthwe colors would look AWESOME, IMO)

I'm a bit torn between War Walkers and Vypers (This would be for AT)

Wraith units can be used (As they are not aspect warriors, but I don't want to be wraith heavy)

A good number of vehicles, I was thinking of a wraith-flyer (Since the Crimson Hunter is technically an aspect warrior)

The one aspect warrior I MIGHT add would be Dark Reapers, because in their fluff they have a heavy connection with Ulthwe (Correct me if I'm wrong)

So what's your opinion on my build, I know it's not a list yet, but it's the foundation to start playing with numbers once I get the book. I am looking to make a few lists so I have options (between 1k and 2k). I would really appreciate any feedback as I've never played Eldar (I want a list before I purchase any models).
 

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To be honest i don't see why you should be going to loose a lot, it's fairly easy to create a guardian heavy list able to go toe to toe with competitive lists, about the reapers i think you're mistaking their connection (they should be altansar's since it's the native craftworld of their phoenix lord).
For starting i'd go for a 1.5k list like this:

eldrad 205
farseer 100
10 storm guardians 2x fusion gun 110
wave holofield, twin scatter laser, shuri cannon 145
10 storm guardians 2x fusion gun 110
wave holofield, twin scatter laser, shuri cannon 145
10 storm guardians 2x fusion gun 110
wave holofield, twin scatter laser, shuri cannon 145
20 guardians 2x brightlance 220
3 war walker lance lance 210

if you're not dead set on playing eldrad just swap him for a second farseer and 3x warlocks to be played one in the big guardian squad and the other two in storm squads, at 1.5k it would be way better, if you're looking to higher point levels, just add warlocks to the guardian units or a scond group of war walkers, since the only thing that would give real trouble to this list is lots of av 14 (like a guard player heavy on leman russes or lots of land raiders), an alternative setting for the walkers if you think you won't have too many high av veichles as opponents is scatter laser- bright lance, more hits at str 6 and twin linking on the lance are fine if you're going to face more horde type armies.
About the farseers/eldrad i've had a lot of luck with telepathy (and getting invisibility on 20 guardians makes for an excellent tarpit unit against almost anybody)
 

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I think you are correct about the reapers. Somewhere I have seen that ulthwe have serveral reaper shrines. After all it was ulthwe who assisted Maugen Ra into the EoT. There is a connection.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'm a bit hesitant about brightlances in Guardian Squads, since aren't they hitting on 4s? But i do like the Scatterlaser/Brightlance idea, to make the Brightlance TLed. And what do you think about placing flamers in the SG squads (then I dont need to worry about missing with the fusion pistols), also MUCH better overwatch since I'm going to be hoping out of a non-assault vehicle there are quite a few units mobile enough to assault me. But I really like the idea for the list, and Lastly, is that too many SGs? Because the transports are too expensive to be 'just' a transport, maybe take another squad that wouldnt need a transport, like rangers?
 

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Guardians are bs4 now days. Brightlance then up! And I don't think the laserlock trick works in a squad. The guardians with their shuriken don't benefit from it I believe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Correct about Scatter Laser, I meant make the Walkers SL/BL, since twin linking is per model now. I did not know Guardians were BS 4 in the new Codex, that's sweet :good:!!
 

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with the new codex, all guardians and veichles are bs 4, also the waves now have way more firepower than before (4 tl SL shots, 3 shuricannon usually tl by the SL AND d6+1 str 7 shots from the shield), i wouldn't bother getting flamers, your waves should have plenty enough firepower to mow down hordes and light/medium veichles, you'd have a better use of the fusion guns, also now all shuriken weapons have rending against every non veichle target. Also the waves are pretty resilient now since jink now gives 4+ cover base and gets buffed to 3+ if you moved (of course you'll only snap shot if you use jink but with 4 tl shots, chances are high that you'll hit at least once with the SL twinlinking also the rest). the storm guardians aren't meant as real melee threats, let's say that they are more a short range shooty unit with the chance of doing decently in case you need to charge something that isn't cc dedicated
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
So what is your take on the Weapon Platform squad? I just bought the book yesterday and I haven't combed through it yet, but I believe last codex there were 3 guns you could choose from. I remember liking the monofilament barrage choice (you don't need line of sight with barrage weapons, right?).

Also, I just looked at the slot for HQ and Warlocks are expensive, so how do you run a warlock squad? Fleshbane makes them look like they are for close combat, but with T3, I feel like I'd die like a chump before round 2. Do the witchblades have AP?
 

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actually i think that the only builds that play warlocks on the competitive side of 40k gaming are going for a bike council with a farseer and possibly an allied dark eldar to have th guy with hit and run. Or maybe some fancy daemonology based builds (both options i don't like tbh, since having around 8 warlocks on bike are about 400 points for 8 models, and this doesn't count the 250ish of the farseer on jetbike and the dark eldar guy, while daemonology while fun won't win you many games by itself). actually i prefer to just add warlocks to units to soak challenges and benefit from the base powers. The heavy platforms are playable but i'd worry about the amount of high strenght shots that armies pack nowadays. if you decide to include a single unit of aspect warriors, i'd suggest dragons or spiders, the first are excellent anti TEQ and anti tank, the latter can shred infantry and mid armored veichles fairly easy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
So I've made my 1st attempt at a 1500 point Eldar list with no aspect warriors. Here it is, comments and criticism is welcome. (I know we discussed fusion guns vs. flamers, but I like flamers very much so I am going with them. I'd even like to find 10 spare points to add 2 more flamers into the storm guardians). This list has a LOT of psychic capability (10 dice base turn 1, 11 with Wraithfighter), and also has a LOT of pinning weapons. Farseers go with the Guardian Defenders, and I will try to keep the enemy pinned (with Wraithfighter and psychic powers I should have a better chance than normal)! Whether this army is going to be competitive or not, it will sure be fun to play :grin:

1500 Point Ulthwe List

Farseer (w/ Singing Spear) - 105
Farseer - 100

Guardian Defenders (10 Man, Bright Lance, Warlock) - 145
Guardian Defenders (10 Man, Bright Lance, Warlock) - 145
Storm Guardians (10 Man, 1 Flamer, Warlock) - 130
Wave Serpent (Scatter Laser, Ghostwalk Matrix, Holo Fields) - 145
Storm Guardians (10 Man, 1 Flamer, Warlock) - 130
Wave Serpent (Scatter Laser, Ghostwalk Matrix, Holo Fields) - 145

Hemlock Wraithfighter - 185

Vaul's Wrath Support Battery (3 Vibro Cannons) - 90
War Walkers Squadron (2 Walkers, Scatter Lassers + EMLs, Spirit Stones) - 180
 

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Well, the list seems fine and fluffy except for the wraithfighter, in game termns it's not that good for the points imho, in termns of fluff it's more a iyanden thing (it's a wraithseer piloting it in communion with the spirits of the dead, and it gives nightmares to all the eldar bystanders due to it's shrieking). I would drop it, fuse the two def guardians squads into a single 20 man blob (way better if you get invisibility), and play either a second 16 man man defender guardian squad with 2 lances (you already have the warlock from the fusion of the two small def guardian squads) or go for 2 more war walkers, also why vibro cannons? if you're not dead set on them you could also with the drop of the fighter get d-cannons instead, way more threatening for veichles, heavy infantry and even mcs (insta killing toughness 5 and a chance of insta killing anything is scary for many)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I thought the D-Cannon was too expensive for a unit I wanted to keep cheap, I was origionaly going to run the Shadow Weaver Cannon, but I wanted to stick to my mass pinning idea. Also the Hemlock Wraithfighter was to help with the mass pinning tactic, do you really think it is that off-topic from Ulthwe? I know wraith is more Iyanden, but I haven't read anything saying Ulthwe don't use many wraith units.

If I do get rid of the Hemlock Wraithfighter, another Guardian Defender blob does sound useful, but don't I need a 20 man group to run 2 Bright Lances?
 

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you're right about the two lances, about the wraith fighter in it's fluff entry is described as an abominable warmachine that tends to get the pilot in the depths of madness or simply abandon the world of the living to enter the circuit of the dead in the fighter, also it's stated that autarchs push for it's use rather than the farseers. Personally i'd avoid it based on fluff, just iyanden is in such dire circumstances to explain regular use of them imho. instead of the second blob it's better to have two more war walkers. i just noticed that you choose eml for the second weapon on them why? you won't probably need those, since most of your army can already deal with infantry, while you have not much against tanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Wow! That is some pretty kick ass fluff, but your right, it doesn't seem themed to my army :p. Sooo, I can add 2 more War Walkers (The EMLs were to add yet more pinning) or I was also thinking of adding a Falcon (I am in love with the Falcon model). But are falcons worth there points? What are there viable tactics? I was thinking rush past a vehicle with it's ungodly range, and fry a heavy vehicle's rear armor with targeting matrix (I can't remember what that upgrade is called).
 

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as things are atm, the eave serpent outclasses the falcon in every aspect (well falcons can be better anti av14 i suppose), the problem of having eml on the war walkers is that then the only source of reliable anti tank are your guardians, and 3 lances won't do much against most of the lists playing land raiders or other av 14 tanks (this also due to your choice of flamers over fusion guns). Generally the matrix isn't that good, since your going to use it onl once to do something you should be able to do as easyly with your war walkers tbh. In the end many armies can't be pinned (eldars due to ld, marines due to atsknf, tyranids due to synaptic, daemons, partially am due to orders/commissars, orks due to mob rule, most caos marins armies due to fearless cult troops), of course in many battles some enemy units will be innable but i wouldn't go full on that tactic, in the end why pin a unit when you can simly wipe it off the board?
 
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