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Discussion Starter #1
I am trying to come up with a bit of variation to add to Chaos Space Marines. Here is what I have come up with to represent the different legions. Hopefully, it makes them each have different abilities, but without overpowering the lists.


Codex: Traitor Legions

Death Guard:
All units that may take an Icon or Mark of chaos, must take Nurgle's mark. Units at or a multiple of 7 may upgrade 1 member to aspiring champion for free. Units of Plague Marines at a multiple of 7 also recieve a free personal icon.
The Death Guard are blessed by their Patron. They may take any Troops choices of the appropriate God from Codex: Chaos Daemons as allies, using their points costs and options. These units replace the Lesser Daemons option, and must arrive in the same way, and may assault after arriving as summoned lesser daemons.

World Eaters:
All units that may take an Icon or Mark of Chaos, must take Khorne's mark. Units at or a multiple of 8 may upgrade 1 member to aspiring champion for free. Units of Berserkers at a multiple of 8 also recieve a free personal icon.
The World eaters are blessed by their Patron. They may take any Troops choices of the appropriate God from Codex: Chaos Daemons as allies, using their points costs and options. These units follow the deployment rules of Lesser Daemons. They do not take up a Force Organization slot, but count as a scoring unit.

Thousand Sons:
All units that may take an Icon or Mark of Chaos, must take Tzeentch's mark. Units at or a multiple of 9 may upgrade 1 member to aspiring Sorcerer for free. Units of Thousand Sons at a multiple of 9 also recieve a free personal icon.
The Thousand Sons are blessed by their Patron. They may take any Troops choices of the appropriate God from Codex: Chaos Daemons as allies, using their points costs and options. These units replace the Lesser Daemons option, and must arrive in the same way, and may assault after arriving as summoned lesser daemons. They do not take up a Force Organization slot, but count as a scoring unit.

Emporer's Children:
All units that may take an Icon or Mark of Chaos, must take Slaanesh's mark. Units at or a multiple of 6 may upgrade 1 member to aspiring champion for free. Units of Noise Marines at a multiple of 6 also recieve a free personal icon.
The Emporer's Children are blessed by their Patron. They may take any Troops choices of the appropriate God from Codex: Chaos Daemons as allies, using their points costs and options. These units replace the Lesser Daemons option, and must arrive in the same way, and may assault after arriving as summoned lesser daemons. They do not take up a Force Organization slot, but count as a scoring unit.


Non- Dedicated:
The following Legions are not dedicated to any particular God. To represent this, all units that can take an Icon or Mark, must take the Icon of Chaos Glory, or none at all. They make take any cult troop choice, but these will become an elites choice, and no longer count as a scoring unit. These armies may not make use of Special Characters if they have the mark of 1 individual God.

Iron Warriors:
Iron Warriors make extensive use of Obliterators and Vehicles. To represent this, 0-2 units of Obliterators may be taken as Elite choices. If vehicles have the option to purchase Daemonic Possession, it's cost is reduced to 10 pts.

Night Lords:
Nightlords excel at mobile, terrorizing attacks. To represent this, a Night Lords army may take 0-2 Chaos Raptors or Chaos Bikers units as Troops choices. For each squad of Chaos Raptors or Chaos Bikers your army includes, you may include a unit of 2 Chaos spawn for free.

Word Bearers:
Word Bearers make extensive use of Daemons, and have learned how to gain their favour. To represent this, the 0-1 limit on Greater daemons becomes 0-3. In addition, Possessed squads do not roll for their Daemonkin special rule, but instead you may choose the power they receive after deployment.

Alpha Legion:
The Alpha Legion excels at inflitration and surprise attacks. To represent this, all units besides Cult Troop choices gain the outflank special rule when held in reserve. After turn 2, you no longer roll for reserve but instead may choose which unit or units you want to have arrive at the beggining of your turn.

Black Legion:
The Black Legion harnesses all the power of the legions to assault the foe, and kill their leader with a surgical strike. To represent this, units inside of Landraiders that are held in reserve may outflank or deepstrike. If deepstriked within 6" of an Icon, it will not scatter, and the units within may assault that turn. These units also recieve +1 to their reserve rolls.


Do any of these seem over-powered or under-powered? Do any seem pretty useless?
 

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Its a good choice to prevent Blood Letters arriving and assaulting the same turn, as that would be broken. But then again it's pretty much broken of Daemonettes as well.

Aramoro
 

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I don't know, it seems to me like it would be the only way to make Bloodletters actually useful. I've stopped using them in my Daemons army because of how often they just die.

I like it. I'm going to run these by my friends and see if they'll let me use some of them. :)

Would giving the Death Guard, Emperor's Children, Thousand Sons and World Eaters access to the Greater Daemons of the appropriate god as HQ choices as well be too much as well, if it still took up an HQ slot? Just an idea I thought I'd throw out there.

I'm not sure about the Black Legion being forced to stay Undivided though. I'm far from an expert, but everything I've read suggests that they generally take members from any view on Chaos, and have several members dedicated to a specific god even if the Legion itself isn't.

Also, the Black Legion special rule is awesome for larger games, but leaves them somewhat screwed in smaller games where taking a Land Raider is too expensive. I just had an alternate special rule idea for the Black Legion, but I'm not sure how it would be. Perhaps to represent their tendency to surgically strike for enemy leaders, they could treat enemy HQ choices like Chaos Icons for the purposes of Deep Striking non-daemon units, and may Deep Strike a single unit of regular Marines? That's just off the top of my head though.

On the other hand, I would have every Word Bearers unit capable of taking an Icon forced to take one of Chaos Glory, and vehicles must take Daemonic Possession. Perhaps the cost of Lesser Daemons could be reduced slightly to compensate. Or maybe I'm just making things too complicated. I have a tendency to do that.
 

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Its a little too strong for Daemonettes and Bloodletters because they're priced at the disadvantage of having to deep strike, then run at your enemy. If you can cruise about in your Rhino and if anyone gets to close you obliterate them with Bloodletters. 128 points gets you 8 Bloodletters which will kill on average 11 Space Marines on the charge, hell they'll kill 3 Storm Shield Termis on the charge. That kind of unstoppable counter charge ability it crazy good.

Aramoro
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Perhaps these changes to the cult legions:


Death Guard Lesser Daemons sacred # unit: Receive the MoN for free. These daemons have Poisoned Attacks.

World Eaters Lesser Daemons sacred # unit: Receive the MoK for free. These daemons have Furious Charge.

Emperor's Children Lesser Daemons sacred # unit: Receive the MoS for free. These daemons have Rending attacks.

Thousand Sons Lesser Daemons sacred # unit: Recieve the MoT for free. These daemons each count as having a range 12" strength 4 ap 3 assault 1 weapon that always hits on 4+.



The point about the Black Legion is true. I wasn't even going to add in Black legion. At the end I thought, why not have Abby fly in out of nowhere in a landraider and obliterate a command unit. I just want a way to make it not just a warband type army.

Edit: What about Black Legion is not constrained by having cult troops count as elites. And instead have a terminator theme. A rule like "any model in terminator armour that deepstrikes within 6" of an Icon does not scatter, and may assault the turn it arrives"?
 

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Did you intend to make Death Guard use FoC slots for daemons or should they be the same as other cult armies?

Not sure about balance; as Spawn are {please consult codex} points usually giving Night Lords 2 per Biker/Raptor unit seems a little powerful even taking into account the deficiencies of Spawn.
 

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On the Tzeentch lesser daemons, quite frankly, what? Ap 3? I know 1k sons get it, but the lesser daemons of Tzeentch in the Chaos Daemons codex get S 4 Ap 5 Assault 3. Why not just give them that?
 

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AP 4 actually on Warpfire.

And, aside from the fact that base Lesser Daemons have a BS of 0, just giving them a shooting attack and MoT actually makes them more powerful than Pink Horrors, since they would be better in close combat. That's why he can't just give them Warpfire.

Hmm... terminators can already use Icons to not deviate, but having them able to assault when they come in that way could work.
 

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Assault out of Deepstrike is always bent, especially with termies.

Vanguard Veterans and Lesser Daemons are the only units with this ability so far and they pay for it by being bad or simply massively expensive.

Aramoro
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Assault out of Deepstrike is always bent, especially with termies.

Vanguard Veterans and Lesser Daemons are the only units with this ability so far and they pay for it by being bad or simply massively expensive.

Aramoro
Leave it to Horus's screw ups to cause me the most trouble.

Black Legion:
Cult Troops count as troops as per normal. All other markable units must take IoCG. If a Black Legion force includes Abaddon the Despoiler, it may choose to use no other HQ (Not including GD) and gains the Black Crusade special rule.

Black Crusade: Abaddon's deadly tactical foresight, combined with his legions experience at launching forth and invading planets, gives a force on a Black Crusade the ability to attack the foe at his most vulnerable points using Terminator strikes. Units of Chaos Terminators (and Abaddon if attached) that deepstrike within 6" of an Icon may assault the turn they arrive, in addition to not scattering.

I think the drawbacks of Abaddon's point cost, IoCG only, and the 1 HQ offset the terminator assault power.
 

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Frankly i totally disagree with the night lords and the free spawns since they despise mutation, daemonic gifts etc - they see it as weak!
 

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Maybe instead of getting free Spawn, they can take Raptors and Bikes as troop choices without limitations, and their Rapters are also armed with normal Bolters?

And not to blow my own horn, but I still think my idea for Deep Strikers not scattering near the enemy HQ is probably the best so far. I'm not sure there's any way to keep people from complaining about things that can assault when they deep strike in (and anyone that's played against Blood Angels can probably understand why, lol.)
 
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