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Discussion Starter #1
Now must of us can agree that in any random game, taking spore mines is a waste of time and points.

But how do you feel about going to a tournament and dropping 60 points or so into two units of Spore Mines, just to screw up deployment on the obligatory Dawn of War mission?

Just two units is nearly enough to keep your opponent from deploying at all. They also screw up infiltration a bit.

Is 60 points worth it, for giving yourself an immediate advantage in one out of three games in a tournament?
 

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In a tourny your opponent will be mechd and and probably all reserving in Dawn of War anyway. Spore Mines are worthless against tanks, so are generally worthless in all games.

It might be annoying to an opponent who wants to deploy an Infantry Platoon on foot, but then you've probably won anyway.

Aramoro
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I suppose I should be less generalized.

I should have pushed the discussion towards specific armies.

SWolves, BAngels, IG, SM, sometimes Orks, and of course, Tyranids.
(The majority of people in tourneys play 5th edition codexs.)

I know this completely screws up big ork mob deployment (and to a lesser extent the first turn of movement), but I'm not familiar with the other lists to know how they generally deploy.
 

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Wolves are usually mechanized, same with IG and normal SM armies. Blood angels are either in transports or are going with deepstriking marines and dreads. Biker orks or trukk orks doesn't care. The green tide list is usually the only army to find it annoying but i'm gonna go ahead and say that a good green tide player will just take it to the chin and march forward.

Nids themselves shouldn't be too concerned either and Eldar/DE, CSM, Tau and Inquitsition armies are likely meched and Necrons can easily take ignore the little buggers.

The only army I would ever consider them a little better is against daemons. Since they all have to DS the Spore Mines could potentially cause some lethal mishaps. But since when do you make special adjustements to your list based on what daemons don't like?
 

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I do not know very much about tyranids but you could most deffinatly use spore mines to really block up one side of your opponents board edge somewhat forceing them to be deployed right into line of sight or some other counter offence.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Sorry, I think people misunderstood.

The Spore Mine itself is nigh on worthless in terms of damage dealing capability.

What I'm talking about is its ability to DS on the board before deployment. In a Dawn of War deployment, you cannot deploy within 18" of an enemy model. Having a couple squads in your enemy deployment zone pretty much denys them any form of reasonable deployment with their 1 hq and 2 troops.

Even if you are Meched Up, you still can't deploy within the distance.

I can see this hurting Blood Angels in Razorbacks or Jump Infantry units deploying at the 24" mark.

That way, even if I go second, I get the option of deploying up to half way on the table. Not my opponent.

The question remains, is the cost of 30 - 60 points worth it to get such an advantage in one game out of 3 in a tournament?
 

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Sorry, I think people misunderstood.

The Spore Mine itself is nigh on worthless in terms of damage dealing capability.

What I'm talking about is its ability to DS on the board before deployment. In a Dawn of War deployment, you cannot deploy within 18" of an enemy model. Having a couple squads in your enemy deployment zone pretty much denys them any form of reasonable deployment with their 1 hq and 2 troops.

Even if you are Meched Up, you still can't deploy within the distance.

I can see this hurting Blood Angels in Razorbacks or Jump Infantry units deploying at the 24" mark.

That way, even if I go second, I get the option of deploying up to half way on the table. Not my opponent.

The question remains, is the cost of 30 - 60 points worth it to get such an advantage in one game out of 3 in a tournament?
It would depend on the point level. I have seen tournaments ranging from 500 to 2500 pts, maybe more. The higher the point level, the better the value. At less than 1000 pts, it would be an absolute waste. 1000-1500, still not really worth it. 1500+, it could be good. Even in non-Dawn of War situations, they could be valuable. In a Dawn of War, you would want to at least have two groups of them to control exactly where they are deploying things. Its a neat idea, especially if you force them to a side and have outflanking units and hive commander. You could force them to reserve everything in that situation, or at least push them into the directions you want them to go. Not so great against BA, but could be interesting against slower armies.
 

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It seems like a good idea in general, even in scenarios that don't use Dawn of War deployment. You'd be able to force the majority of the opponent's models right off the board with spore mines, especially in Spearhead deployment.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
It would depend on the point level. I have seen tournaments ranging from 500 to 2500 pts, maybe more. The higher the point level, the better the value. At less than 1000 pts, it would be an absolute waste. 1000-1500, still not really worth it. 1500+, it could be good. Even in non-Dawn of War situations, they could be valuable. In a Dawn of War, you would want to at least have two groups of them to control exactly where they are deploying things. Its a neat idea, especially if you force them to a side and have outflanking units and hive commander. You could force them to reserve everything in that situation, or at least push them into the directions you want them to go. Not so great against BA, but could be interesting against slower armies.
I can accept that. I didn't want to get to specific on point levels, but, to be honest, I've been contemplating this for a 2500 point game on a 4x6 table.
 

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I have been thinking about this and the discussion has revolved mainly around point cost. However, at 2500 points, you would be running into Force Slot costs. Basically, is it worth one or two fast attack slots? At higher point levels, I like to run harpies, flying warriors, and gargoyles to get some faster moving units on the board. The use of spores would hamper this. Also, it is pretty easy to almost fill up every Force Slot at that point level.

Just a thought.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
At 2500 points I have 2 HQs, 3 Elites, 5 Troops, 0 Fast Attacks, and 3 Heavy Supports with 90 points to spare.

But the real question, avoiding harpies and raveners and shrikes and such....

Is it worth it to you, to spend 90 points to near guarantee a big advantage in one game of the tournament, knowing you'll have 90 points of worthless in the other two games when playing at 2500 points?
 

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Well, in that case it begs the question: If you can win most of your missions when you are basically being 90 points short, do you really need them in those where they are actually good?

Maybe you will, depending on the matchup. But then it seems you're hoping a little too much that luck will be on your side.
 

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The other option is that you could feild 18 Termagaunts instead with those 90pts :p

Anyway, I have also been thinking about this as an option for a Tournament, thus searching for this thread :)
I have done it in some test matches with friends and have forced people to stay in reserve, but it took 3 Fast choices to do it and I tend to run a Ravener heavy list so its not worth the slots for me.
I do take Biovores in my list due to my intrest in the mines, and how well they will mess up a Ork day, and they tend to run fairly often where I am.
I like the thought of using a spore mine cluster, just one, just to take away the far side of the board from my opponent, forcing them to deploy closer to me so that I can get into them faster... I find this helps me make the most of my units, and also throws them off, at least for the first game, they tend to not like to be forced into a deployment zone, and are un-nerved at how close to me they must start as most people playing against nids like to set up far away and gun line me. a well placed spore mine can force those gunlines to half the table shooting rather than corner to corner shooting... so I would say that spore mines have use when used properly.... just dont expect them to kill things...
 
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