[kelvingreen]

Could someone please explain the torrent of fire rule from p26-27 of the core rules to me? I'm probably overthinking things, but the rule seems utterly pointless to me; I mean, I can see how it works, but I don't see the advantage of it for either player :?

As I say, I'm probably overthinking something that's very simple and obvious.

 

[anathema]

In a nutshell, it allows you to force a save on a heavy weapon, power fist, drone controller, exarch etc. model. You can use it to get rid of specific models that you really want to kill.

 

[kelvingreen]

Okay, that makes sense. I've been staring and staring at that rule since I got the book, and it's made complete sense, but I've been wondering what it's actually for!

Thanks.

 

[experiment 626]

just keep in mind that the model you're hoping to single out with the torrent of fire/blows rule must still be in range of your shots/attacks!!!

but yes, this is very, very handy rule that for some reason few people ever make use of?!

cheers!

 

[Cadian81st]

Such a rule exists? Hmm... this changes things.

 

[experiment 626]

Such a rule exists? Hmm... this changes things.

sadly however whenever i use this rule the cries of foul dairy products inevitably fly my way...
but then, i've found this rule is a great way of punishing players who severly min/max their armies as it's quite easy to cause 7 or so wounds in one go on a 6-man squad!

basically the idea behind the rule is that the squad firing are all aiming at one general target. so it's the same theory as twin-linked weapons; eventually at least one shot has to hit the guy you're really aiming at!

cheers!

 

[kelvingreen]

sadly however whenever i use this rule the cries of foul dairy products inevitably fly my way...

Well, they're being silly. It's one thing to cry foul if someone's exploiting a loophole in the rules, but if the rulebook itself says "sometimes you may want to do this" I hardly think it's fair to call it cheese.

 

[mattjgilbert]

A similar rule can be applied in close combat against engaged models (see page 41 - Armour Saves) - it's worked out at each Initiative step.

How can this be called "cheesy" when it's a valid rule? Maybe rolling to hit is also cheesy, or even, god forbid, moving in the movement phase!? Sounds like those claiming cheese simply haven't read the rules properly...

 

[Engelus]

what about blast templates, if you cause enough wounding hits from a blast template, can you single out a specific model?

 

[Anphicar]

Well, with templates you can only affect those who the template is over, and the partials that were made.

 

[don_mondo]

Well, with templates you can only affect those who the template is over, and the partials that were made.

Ummm, no. With both blast markers and flamer templates, casualties may be removed from anywhere in the affected unit within range and LOS.

 

[anathema]

However, if you wound everyone in the unit using a blast, then yes.

 

[The Wraithlord]

How can this be called "cheesy" when it's a valid rule?

The Iron Warrior army of 4 pie plates and 9 Oblits is called cheesy yet it is a valid and legal army (even if it IS total cheese). Many players out there cry foul whenever a rule or list is used that they can't handle or dislike unfortunately. I personally have used this rule to decent effect.

 

[anathema]

Difference is that every army out there can use this rule. Its a rule, not a unit choice, just like causing pinning.

 

[Anphicar]

Ummm, no. With both blast markers and flamer templates, casualties may be removed from anywhere in the affected unit within range and LOS.

I meant wound wise. Therefore, as long as you removed that many wounds, and it didnt go over or to the # of models, you dont have to take a specific model.

Sorry if my poor choice of words confused you. kay:

 

[The Son of Horus]

It's especially important to remember in close combat against Space Marine armies. If you can deal out ten wounds, and make the veteran sergeant take an armor save before he swings his power fist, you have a shot at saving three or four of your models.

It's also a great little rule for sucker-punching someone with a sacrificial unit. Have four Scouts left? Charge the min/maxed squad of six Space Marines with a plasma gun and a lascannon. Yeah, they'll beat you in combat, but you might be able to off the lascannon since you're throwing three attacks apiece on the charge.

 

[Engelus]

more invulnerable questions.

does this rule apply to squads that only have invulnerable saves, say, a squad of Harle's. and thus can force the save onto a specific model.

what about upgrade models, like seargents

 

[stompzilla]

Of course. Why would it not.

 

[Anphicar]

Engelus--

A invunerable save can be used ANY time.

Even if say you had a armour save of 2+, AND an invunerable save of 5+.

If you want, you can use the 5+ save. (But who would do that :roll: )

Invunerable saves come into play when the wounded unit is hit by a weapon ignoring their normal armour saves. Its a second chance "save", albeit poorer.

 

[Engelus]

let me rephrase Aniphicar.

does the rule only let you force a save on any model, and it takes whatever save it likes (armor, cover, invulnerable) or can it only be used against models with an armor save.

and about the sergeants, I'm looking for a way to eliminate whatever upgrade unit is constantly giving those pesky Eldar Defend, cause if I cant, then I end up blowing a crusader squad on a squad that takes them 5 turns to eliminate if at all. thus making my squad unable to take objectives.